Climate Change Debate: Pope VS Trump Supporters?

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TeenCatholicGuy said:
Now you are cherry-picking, taking positions you wish you were defending.

I’m not even going to waste time arguing against that silly statement.
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You questioned the validity of one calling themselves “Catholic” if they disagree with the pope on the reality of climate change. Now its a “silly statement” when the same argument is turned against you. Who are you to decide who is and isn’t Catholic?
 
Tim_D said:
Just because their position don’t jive with what you think think they should be doesn’t mean that they are “against all of those things.”
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I’ll second this. I won’t go as far as to say that democrats don’t care about coal miners and their families, victims of illegal immigrant/terrorist violence, quality education, etcetera, because they don’t agree with my policies.
 
OP, religion and science and politics are three different things, not one. We don’t look to the Church for scientific or political directives. We don’t look to science as a religion. Those who try to politicize the Church are actually among the Church’s worst enemies.
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
It is possible, but even so, Abortion rates fall when $ is invested in Social Security.
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I’m not doubting social services have an impact, I’m just noting that there are mitigating factors to that drop rate.

(Side note: Overall I lean fairly liberal on many issues. That said, you’re beating a dead horse here. This forum’s conservative and not prone to change anytime soon.)

For those saying to leave it to the states, the EPA was created on account of the FAILURE of the states to regulate the environment. Plus many issues transcends states. Pollutants that go into the air can fall elsewhere.

If the pope tells you to jump off a bridge, odds are it’s to avoid getting hit by the train.
 
From what I have read, the temperature of the earth has increased by only 2/10ths of a degree in the last 30 yrs.
Global warming is a myth.
 
truetofaith said:
From what I have read, the temperature of the earth has increased by only 2/10ths of a degree in the last 30 yrs.
Global warming is a myth.
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To be specific, the idea that the rise in temperature since 1850 is directly attributable to the use of fossil fuels - especially since it wasn’t until the 1960s that industry started to emit CO2 in any appreciable quantity - is strained at the most and simply in error in the least. There is a reason why the famous “hockey-stick” graph - which has been debunked - was made to begin when it did; to only illustrate a rise in temperatures. During this time of 167 years there has been numerous periods of warming and cooling. The hottest time of this era, the 1930s, was a time of reduced industry and CO2 emission due to the Great Depression, yet 1938 is the hottest year on record. The correlation between an increase in CO2 and a rise in temperature is, indeed, a myth.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
OP, religion and science and politics are three different things, not one. We don’t look to the Church for scientific or political directives. We don’t look to science as a religion. Those who try to politicize the Church are actually among the Church’s worst enemies.
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👍 I can agree with this!
 
Good thing that Church opinion, so far, is not ex cathedra. It is always the activists that wail the loudest, whether secular or clerical. There is compelling evidence that the MMGW/CC/WAAGTD models were and are flawed. The Church supports science - not bad science.

What if global warming is God’s plan? Saint Peter said that the elements will melt in the heat. So, we want to fight this? Gamaliel spoke prophetic words to the Sanhedrin in the book of Acts.

And, why is it the Holy Father vs. President Trump? This is manufactured controversy.

China and India produce what, 50X-100X the greenhouse gasses? Crickets there… 🤷
 
meltzerboy said:
However, according to my understanding, Catholics can disagree with the Pope on issues that do not involve morals and religion, including climate change. At the same time, of course, one should not completely ignore what Pope Francis says and his rationale involving climate change, which involves our dominion and stewardship of G-d’s creation. Still, he is not speaking as an expert on the issue nor is he speaking ex cathedra, and thus a Catholic in good standing can respectfully disagree.
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👍 Thank you meltzerboy.

I respectfully disagree with our Holy Father on the issue, because he is not a Climate Scientist, nor do the Climate Scientists agree on matters such as the rate of change, the causes and what exactly should be done or how much difference it would even make, and it’s filled with Climate alarmists and extremists who have made several bogus claims and gotten rich off them.

However, when our Holy Father speaks on matters of dogma, such as Abortion, or Marriage, or the Divinity of Christ, those things are infallible as revealed to us by Christ Himself in sacred scripture.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
If all the time, effort and money spent on the question were to be directed towards solutions, there would be no reason to even debate.

Everyone agrees that we should clean up our mess. It is like fighting over who spilt the milk. Who cares. We are all sick of the question, is it or isn’t it. All these people arguing. Abandon the question and find a way to stop polluting the environment.
 
esieffe said:
If all the time, effort and money spent on the question were to be directed towards solutions, there would be no reason to even debate.
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That assumes that all would agree on the correct position. As long as ideology drives world views, then we will never have such a consensus.
 
Tim_D said:
That assumes that all would agree on the correct position. As long as ideology drives world views, then we will never have such a consensus.
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We should be able to agree there are all sorts of pollution. No one can deny that. That is the only argument that is needed and can be won.
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
I have these questions for the Catholic Community:
  1. Is Climate Change Real?
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Yes. The Climate has always been changing, the rate of change, what exactly causes it, or what exactly to do about it, and whether or not such course of action(s) would make any significant difference, is all up for debate.
TeenCatholicGuy said:
  1. Who do we trust more, the Leader of the Catholic Church or Donald Trump who attacked the Pope several times during the 2016 Campaign?
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The Catholic Church, Climate Change is not a matter of Dogma, so when our Holy Father speaks on it, he is fallible, matters such as Abortion and Marriage, are Dogma’s, when our Holy Father speaks on those he is infallible, we also have the Catechism of the Catholic Church too.
TeenCatholicGuy said:
  1. How should we fight Climate Change?
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This is a loaded question IMO.
TeenCatholicGuy said:
  1. What is more important: Climate Change or Pro-Life issues?
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Pro-Life issues.

“Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights-for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture- is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination.” - St Pope John Paul II
TeenCatholicGuy said:
Code: 
-Sidenote on 4)-
It is clear that electing Republicans have done little to actually combat Abortion, as 
they have appointed 12 of the last 16 Supreme Court Justices and Under Obama, 
Abortion rates fell every year.
Discuss below?
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Do you really think there will be a greater pro-life effect by providing billions in funding for abortion providers so they set up more abortion clinics both in the US and abroad and also spend more money on campaigns encouraging more women to opt for it? (Most of the time making it easier for women to be forced or coerced into it)

Do you really think there will be a greater pro-life affect by appoint supreme court justices who consider roe vs wade ‘settled law’ and ‘Women’s rights’?

Do you really think there will be a greater pro-life affect by people believing in an over-population belief within Climate Change and think that more abortion is helping save the Earth, liberate women and reduce poverty?

Do you really think that all this somehow reduces and eventually stops abortion? something which they not only don’t think wrong, but on the contrary ‘women’s rights’ and do not even want to be reduced, because to them it’s doing the Earth a solid anyway, two birds with one stone.

If someone legalized and advocated murder, would you really vote for that person just because a dubious poll came out that said that there were less murders under this persons leadership? What if it were your life in question?

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
esieffe said:
We should be able to agree there are all sorts of pollution. No one can deny that. That is the only argument that is needed and can be won.
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That’s a very simplistic presentation of the issue. Next comes the issue of how to achieve the ends. Is it better to put loads of people out of work in order to decrease pollutants by modest levels? Some would say yes, others would say no.
 
Catholic1954 said:
human activity cannot cause changes in the climate and cannot fix them.
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This is opinion, not fact. Here’s one small example: each google search produces the same amount of CO2 as a pot of boiling water, multiply that by the billions of people with internet access who conduct searches multiple times per day, then mutiply each day by 365. Consider also the rate of deforestation, which takes away plants whose oxygen offset the CO2 which, by the way warms up the atmosphere. There are many other examples of activities which accelerate climate change, but you can’t tell me that the hole in the ozone layer isn’t a blatant warning sign to us humans.
Catholic1954 said:
Catholics cannot do anything about changes in the patterns of the Earth’s climate, but we can do something to promote pro-life issues.
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That was a great red herring.
TeenCatholicGuy said:
They barely fell under W. Bush’s administration and fell much more significantly under the Obama Admin.
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I would posit that this may be due in part to better coverage of birth control.
Tim_D said:
That’s a very simplistic presentation of the issue. Next comes the issue of how to achieve the ends. Is it better to put loads of people out of work in order to decrease pollutants by modest levels? Some would say yes, others would say no.
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Who gets put out of work from adapting more environmentally friendly practices? You know that it actually creates a ton of jobs, right?
 
I don’t support the so much focus Pope Francis is giving to Climate Change over other more important issues at hand. Aside from that, I haven’t read of any message of the Mother of God regarding Climate Change.
 
Rachellem56 said:
Who gets put out of work from adapting more environmentally friendly practices? You know that it actually creates a ton of jobs, right?
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How many tons of jobs is the alternative energy sector creating compared to the petroleum, natural gas and coal industry?
 
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