Climate change hits Mars

[Mirdath]

I do find the idea of rapid planetary climate changes being caused by fluctuations in solar radiation perfectly likely, even probable most of the time. However, nearly every meteorologist who thinks that may well be a big factor in Earth’s global warming also thinks human influence is a factor, at the very least speeding up and intensifying the changes. So, it seems to me it is in ALL our best interest to do as much as possible to minimize the risks. Sure, fossil fuels and so on are a part of the economy that helps make some people money. But if the world’s coastal cities are inundated by the rising oceans (among other calamities), it won’t matter very much, now will it?

Maybe there is only so much we can do about it, though more data is needed - but we’d better do as much as we can with what we’ve got as soon as possible if any such disasters can be prevented.

Mars warming though - THAT could be potentially very useful to us indeed. If Mars had even a little more atmosphere (and it’s CO2 and water vapor in those poles, no less) it’d sure make terraforming more viable. I just think it’s neat, that’s all.

 

[Ella]

We shout? Through the keyboard?

No, we advance well-reasoned arguments, backed by data. Those who cannot deal with gentlemanly debate are, I admit, sometimes frustrated by this.

I don’t see any well-reasoned arguments, backed by data, from you on here, Vern. I do see you making mocking comments about anyone who might believe global warming has a man-made cause, even if the man-made effects are just a part. You also make mocking comments about the very subject of global warming. I think it’s your hobby to do that in these forums… are you retired? I don’t have time to read and post here that much.

Anyway, Hipster Doofus, don’t worry. Lots of lurkers do read these boards and I for one am more interested in the subject of global warming after reading the other current thread about it in this forum…

Have a blessed weekend. Say a rosary for environmental causes.

 

[b_justb]

Hipster Doofus,

Vern asked you point blank:
vern humphrey:

Define “fixing it.”

And your reply to that was:
Hipster Doofus:

Well Vern, I’ve come to expect nothing less from you over the years than far right reactionary politics, “Bush-can-do-no-wrong”-ism, and the resounding din of you laughing at your own lame jokes, so there’s no point in my trying to answer your “arguments.” You’re one of those that CAF has way too many of–people who keep arguing and contradicting everyone until they’ve run everybody off their little 12 inch hill. then they run off to the next thread to see who else they can shout down. Your manner and that of others with your viewpoint is what often causes me to leave this site in disgust.

I don’t get it at all. He wanted your (name removed by moderator)ut on fixing it. Why not give him (and me and or us) your possible solutions? It’s a reasonable question. You think something is broke. Instead of answering the question with a possible solution you bring in Pres. Bush and what Vern may or may not think of him ?

You said you’ve left CAF in disgust before. Why return just to leave again also in disgust?

I don’t get it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I don’t see any well-reasoned arguments, backed by data, from you on here, Vern.

Did you read the opening post?

Have you gone through the thread and seen what I and other posters have offered?

I do see you making mocking comments about anyone who might believe global warming has a man-made cause, even if the man-made effects are just a part.

No, you don’t.

You don’t see me mocking anyone who believes global warming might be partially due to human activity. You see me respecting such people and asking them to lay out their arguments and evidence.

You also make mocking comments about the very subject of global warming. I think it’s your hobby to do that in these forums… are you retired? I don’t have time to read and post here that much.

Partially retired – does that count against me? It is a sin in your mind?

When I was a lad, older people were respected and mere age was not considered something to make fun of. Different now, I guess.

Anyway, Hipster Doofus, don’t worry. Lots of lurkers do read these boards and I for one am more interested in the subject of global warming after reading the other current thread about it in this forum…

You consider the following points to be justification for a personal attack?

1. The earth has been much warmer (and much colder) than it is today. And that happened before mankind evolved.

1. The data we have is subject to many different interpretations. And we don’t have a lot of it – after all, a century or so in the 4+ billion years of the planet’s life doesn’t pass the significance test.

1. There is a lot of hype - - so much so that some scientists who belive global warming is man-caused have pointed out that “An Inconvenitent Truth” is badly flawed.

1. There is a rush to cut off debate – Dr. Hidie Clum (of “Weather Channel” fame) has publicly said meteorologists who don’t agree with her should be de-certified.

1. The proposed “solutions” all attack the economic system, and there are no actions advanced that would capitalize on Global Warming, if it should be true (such as increased growing seasons, opening the Northwest Passage, and so on.)

And you consider remarks like** this** to be proper gentlemanly debate?

Well Vern, I’ve come to expect nothing less from you over the years than far right reactionary politics, “Bush-can-do-no-wrong”-ism, and the resounding din of you laughing at your own lame jokes, so there’s no point in my trying to answer your “arguments.”

Is this in your opinion the epitome of scholarly discussion?

And thanks for proving all my points, especially that you are incapable of discussion, or seeing any view other than John Birch’s.

Have a blessed weekend. Say a rosary for environmental causes.

I say the rosary frequently – and often for environmental causes. I especially pray that we don’t go off half-cocked and ruin the environment in our haste to “solve” problems we don’t understand.

 

[Flopfoot]

Ella - Have a sense of humor, will you? I don’t see mockery. I see tongues in cheeks - even if we are discussing a serious issue.

 

[seekerz]

I do find the idea of rapid planetary climate changes being caused by fluctuations in solar radiation perfectly likely, even probable most of the time. However, nearly every meteorologist who thinks that may well be a big factor in Earth’s global warming also thinks human influence is a factor, at the very least speeding up and intensifying the changes. So, it seems to me it is in ALL our best interest to do as much as possible to minimize the risks. Sure, fossil fuels and so on are a part of the economy that helps make some people money. But if the world’s coastal cities are inundated by the rising oceans (among other calamities), it won’t matter very much, now will it?

Maybe there is only so much we can do about it, though more data is needed - but we’d better do as much as we can with what we’ve got as soon as possible if any such disasters can be prevented.

Mars warming though - THAT could be potentially very useful to us indeed. If Mars had even a little more atmosphere (and it’s CO2 and water vapor in those poles, no less) it’d sure make terraforming more viable. I just think it’s neat, that’s all.

I agree with much of what you’ve said. Whether or not human activity is what is causing the polar ice to melt, there are many activities which we do know harm the environment in some way (e.g.unfettered destruction of forests).

So why don’t we work from the perspective of respecting and nurturing God’s creation? If sensible, practical measures can be taken which also work to decrease the effects of global warming - Hallelujah; if they don’t, at least we’d at least be able to call ourselves good stewards.

Life’s issues are so much less complicated with the politics subtracted.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I agree with much of what you’ve said. Whether or not human activity is what is causing the polar ice to melt, there are many activities which we do know harm the environment in some way (e.g.unfettered destruction of forests).

We have more forested land in the United States than we did when Columbus discovered America.

So why don’t we work from the perspective of respecting and nurturing God’s creation? If sensible, practical measures can be taken which also work to decrease the effects of global warming - Hallelujah; if they don’t, at least we’d at least be able to call ourselves good stewards.

Why don’t we start replacing our fossil-fueled power plants with nuclear plants? France is about 3/4ths nuclear, and the United States, which invented nuclear power is less than 1/6th nuclear.

Life’s issues are so much less complicated with the politics subtracted.

Indeed they are. So let’s stop trying to choke off debate, attacking people personally for holding different opinions, and deal with the issues.

I’ve taken the first step – let’s support more nuclear power.

 

[seekerz]

We have more forested land in the United States than we did when Columbus discovered America.

I was really thinking about places like the Amazon here though.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I was really thinking about places like the Amazon here though.

The Amazon isn’t under our control. We did aid in the deforestation through our support for the World Bank, which financed it. But how we can re-forest it is problematical.