Climate Change- myth or reality?

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Orogeny:
What, pray tell, can we do about it?

Peace

Tim
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Ratify Kyoto
 
This would be a reasonable reason to make some changes. The problem is that it is not such a no brainer.
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Norwich:
Myth or reality? Lets try the following postulations.

Postulation 1, its a myth.

Its a myth and we do do something, result = no change.
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This is not correct. The kind of changes that many are talking about have very significant consequences. For example logically we would switch primarily to nuclear generated electricity. There would be significant potential for economic stagnation.

Remember, Kyoto was considered a first step!
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Norwich:
Postulation 2, its true.

Its true and we do do something, result = no change.

Its true and we don’t do anything, result = catastrophe.
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Again there are significant consequences to doing something.

Now if human activities were causing the current global warming, there is also the question of the result being a catastrophe. Remember the earth was much warmer than it is today less than 500 years ago. The reporting is on the most extreme results of computer models, the affect of these extreme model prediction are also speculation.
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Norwich:
Now if a surgeon told you that if you don’t have a particular operation you have a 25% chance of dying, whats your decision?

Don’t know about you but I personally don’t like the odds.
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The Dr is wrong. I have 100% chance of dying. 😃

Seriously, the more analogous situation would be:

I don’t know what will happen to you if you don’t get the surgery. There is the possibility you could die. There are risks to the surgery there is the possibility you might die.

IMHO This is were we are at.
 
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JamesD:
This would be a reasonable reason to make some changes. The problem is that it is not such a no brainer.

This is not correct. The kind of changes that many are talking about have very significant consequences. For example logically we would switch primarily to nuclear generated electricity. There would be significant potential for economic stagnation.

Remember, Kyoto was considered a first step!

Again there are significant consequences to doing something.

Now if human activities were causing the current global warming, there is also the question of the result being a catastrophe. Remember the earth was much warmer than it is today less than 500 years ago. The reporting is on the most extreme results of computer models, the affect of these extreme model prediction are also speculation.

The Dr is wrong. I have 100% chance of dying. 😃

Seriously, the more analogous situation would be:

I don’t know what will happen to you if you don’t get the surgery. There is the possibility you could die. There are risks to the surgery there is the possibility you might die.

IMHO This is were we are at.
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Ah, the genius of prevarication. As a race we have a very simple choice, live or die. As far as the world is concerned the Gian theory holds, i.e. we need the world but it don’t need us. Therfore of the four possibilities three of them may give a different outcome of how we survive but, they do give a high possibility of survival, one would almost certainly result in the end of humanity as a species with virtually no possibility of survival.

Now, whether that survival is as a developed species or a return to the cave I and everyone else don’t know but, to coin an old phrase, “There ain’t no pockets in a shroud”. When your dead, your dead, as an individual or a species, and it doesn’t matter what you have, you cant take it with you. Anyway, if we go the world woud be ruled by cockroaches, imagine what this forum would be like then?🙂 click, click, clack, cl, cla clickkkk. Wouldn’t understand a word of it!!! (bit like some of the posts now I suppose)😃
 
I am a total non-believer in global warming. Not that the average temperature hasn’t risen slightly this century, but that the rise is so slight as to indistinguishable from the normal fluctuations that have occured over the past eons. There are much better (and provable) reasons to protect the environment and curb pollution, which I support.

I wonder how many volcanos will abide by the Kyoto accord.
 
I refer you to the above problems… if your right, then no problem, but, if your wrong … oblivion!!!
 
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Norwich:
I refer you to the above problems… if your right, then no problem, but, if your wrong … oblivion!!!
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I do not believe in oblivion, but rather trust the providence of God to provide in this world and the next. When ever I get too tied up in to all this hype and hysteria, I like to consider the lilies of the field.

The whole math of this 25% chance is unfounded without evidence to support that all possible outcomes have an equal chance.
 
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pnewton:
I do not believe in oblivion, but rather trust the providence of God to provide in this world and the next.
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Interesting point of biblical teaching, God has promised nothing in this world, only the next, therefore oblivion is perfectly possible.
 
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Norwich:
Myth or reality? Lets try the following postulations.

Postulation 1, its a myth.

Its a myth and we do do something, result = no change.
Its a myth but we don’t do anything, result = no change.

Postulation 2, its true.

Its true and we do do something, result = no change.
Its true and we don’t do anything, result = catastrophe.

Now if a surgeon told you that if you don’t have a particular operation you have a 25% chance of dying, whats your decision?

Don’t know about you but I personally don’t like the odds.
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This is exactly right. Global warming is pretty much a fact, as far as I understand. Visual examples include the fact the the icecap on Kilimanjaro is shrinking yearly and expected to be gone within 20 years; the glaciers at Glacier National Park are also disappearing. How far warming will go and the extent to which it is a consequence of human activity are unanswered questions. The notion that it is occurring because of human-produced greenhouse gases makes sense, though. At a minimum, this is a problem that needs to be taken seriously and not dismissed as anti-capitalistic nonsense. Like Norwich says, what if it’s true? Wouldn’t we regret listening to what Rush Limbaugh told us to think?
 
Global warming caused by the human race is a big hoax. Global warming caused by nature is true. We are in a period of natural warming between ice ages. The human race is not able to impact global warming yet.

If you study the historical temperatures that have been kept you will find that temperatures have been raising long before we had industrialization. Just look at the figures kept by the British empire.

Humans can affect local conditions like acid rain, poluted rivers, etc… These things are true.

Global warming ranks among other great myths like Catholics rank Blessed Mary above Jesus, Catholics must pray souls out of purgatory, we are saved by faith alone, Jesus was human and was adopted by God, Blessed Mary had multiple children who were siblings of Jesus and his half brothers, we become Gods and get our own planets when we die just like our God did, etc…

By the way, what country polutes the most green house producing gas in the world? Thats right, it’s China. It’s caused by humans breathing. What is the gas? Carbon dioxide! We produce it in our bodies and breath it out. Want to control carbon dioxide? Have fewer babies.
 
Actually the largest amount of greenhouse gases are produced by cattle and sheep. These are different to the cattle and sheep who listen to the nonsense perpetrated by the vested interests of the oil lobby who bury the heads in the sand (or better still bury your head in the sand) annd try to protect their own very limited interests at the expense of MY world.

Ever heard the expression “Earth Calling” it is but nobody wants to listen!!!
 
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Norwich:
Actually the largest amount of greenhouse gases are produced by cattle and sheep. These are different to the cattle and sheep who listen to the nonsense perpetrated by the vested interests of the oil lobby who bury the heads in the sand (or better still bury your head in the sand) annd try to protect their own very limited interests at the expense of MY world.

Ever heard the expression “Earth Calling” it is but nobody wants to listen!!!
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Careful, Norwich…your’e losing your touch 😛 😃
 
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aimee:
Careful, Norwich…your’e losing your touch 😛 😃
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Yes, sorry about that I’m up to my neck ( and beyond) with flu and feel like I could do with a climate change around the house. Yeuuukkk.
😃
 
My honest answer…I don’t know.

My personal opinion based on what I’ve heard from both sides is that the Earth is warming, but…
  1. I don’t believe the scientific data can really show that we are definitely the cause.
  2. We don’t have enough historical data to know if it is a natural trend…What if this happens every 10,000 years?
  3. Kyoto was a poorly written protocol. (an article from that neo-conservative Harvard University)
    harvardmagazine.com/on-line/1102199.html
  4. The real problem is how to deal with climate change:
    Winning and Losing the Global Warming Debate
    sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/homepages/roger_pielke/hp_roger/debate.html
If we are to reduce our world’s vulnerability to climate, it could very well be that our worst enemy is the Global Warming: Yes or No? debate itself. Climate impacts cause human suffering, economic loss, and ecosystem destruction. Meanwhile, diplomats, politicians, and scientists pursue a debate that has become too narrow, at times too personal, and increasingly irrelevant to the real impacts. As a striking example of this folly, last fall thousands of diplomats, advisers, and advocacy groups gathered in Buenos Aires to address the climate problem shortly after Hurricane Mitch killed more than 10,000 people in Central America. Some in Buenos Aries even pointed to Hurricane Mitch as a harbinger of future disasters brought on by climate change. We point to Hurricane Mitch as a failure to prepare for climate impacts today.
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God Bless,

Robert.
 
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Norwich:
Interesting point of biblical teaching, God has promised nothing in this world, only the next, therefore oblivion is perfectly possible.
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Oblivous is a thousand times more likely because God has had enough of human immorality than because humans are sending pollution into the air.
 
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sbcoral:
This is exactly right. Global warming is pretty much a fact, as far as I understand. Visual examples include the fact the the icecap on Kilimanjaro is shrinking yearly and expected to be gone within 20 years; the glaciers at Glacier National Park are also disappearing. How far warming will go and the extent to which it is a consequence of human activity are unanswered questions. The notion that it is occurring because of human-produced greenhouse gases makes sense, though. At a minimum, this is a problem that needs to be taken seriously and not dismissed as anti-capitalistic nonsense. Like Norwich says, what if it’s true? Wouldn’t we regret listening to what Rush Limbaugh told us to think?
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How about what credible scientists think?

firstthings.com/ftissues…pinion/derr.htm
 
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Norwich:
Lead!!! don’t finish up being dragged into doing something by the rest of the world.
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Lead by going backwards?

How do you think China is going to grow its economy - by raising sheep?
 
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