Clown Mass

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Frbrendan

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I have heard in this forum, and many others, about the Novus Ordo being celebrated by priests,. etc., dressed up like clowns.

I have been to quite a few Masses in my days (before I left the RC Church), and I have never seen a clown Mass. Not ever. To be clear, I had been going to Mass on a regular basis–weekly, and sometimes daily–since I was six years old (1957) until the time I left the Roman Catholic Church (1987). In 30 years, I have seen N.O. Masses and E.F Masses, and I have never, ever seen one person approach the altar to serve while dressed as a clown, or even in mime makeup (whiteface).

Further more, I have been in several dioceses, including (but not limited to) Chicago, Rockford, Madison, Peoria, Indianapolis, and East Lansing, MI. This is my experience in 30 years, in quite a few different churches. As a result, I can say that I have been to thousands of different Masses, and I have yet to see one clown, or, for that matter a sugar cookie being used for a host, or a balloon release at the moment of Consecration.

In my time as an Orthodox and then Eastern Catholic monk, I have never seen one in the Byzantine Rite either!

I’m an open guy, and I am willing to look, but where are they? Where are all the clown Masses that I heard people decry on this and other boards? Please, I want to know. Churches, dates and times. Preferably followed up with links to photos or videos.
 
I will amend myself. I looked up Clown Mass on Google, and found several links to a supposed clown mass in Oakland. However, looking at what was going on, it wasn’t a Mass at all. I did see a deacon holding a Gospel Book, and I did see clowns. But there was no Mass going on. I didn’t even see an altar. I have seen several pictures purporting to be clown masses, but only one looks even close to a Mass, and even there there is no altar.
 
I often wondered the same thing about clown masses…I’ve never seen one either nor cookies used as the host. Just the simple fact the only place I’ve ever heard of these clown masses is on the web makes me think they are simply put to inflame and outrage people so that they will leave the true Catholic church and turn to sedevacanism. I for one don’t believe everything I see on the web.

But I have never traveled around the country…only up & down the east coast. So I don’t know…but it would be interesting to hear from someone who has gone to a clown mass and what their reaction was…or it they walked into a church to go to mass and saw a whole bunch of clowns…and walked out. I don’t know…are they advertised in the church bulletin?

Now that I’m thinking what in the world would be the purpose for a clown mass? It is the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard of…I always had that underlying feeling of clowns being evil anyway. :cool:
 
Frbrendan said:
I have heard in this forum, and many others, about the Novus Ordo being celebrated by priests,. etc., dressed up like clowns.

I have been to quite a few Masses in my days (before I left the RC Church), and I have never seen a clown Mass. .
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neither have I and I have been Catholic for over 40 years and worshipped in hundreds of churches in at least 10-12 dioceses. It is an urban legend. it happened once or twice in the 70s (for which decade Lord forgive us) in isolated places and circumstances, or as part of a very specific (if misguided) ministry to specific groups, one or two videos survive and are endlessly replayed so that we can all get our vicarious thrills. The specific purpose for bringing up isolated instances of abuse are specifically to attack the liturgical reforms of the 20th century which culminated in the Mass of Pope Paul VI, sometimes called the “Novus Ordo”. Since one abuse happened one time one place therefore each and every Mass ever celebrated in that rite is therefore, as these critics claim, invalid or worse.

btw some of the videos circulating now are old news, others are not even from Catholic services
 
I can’t pull the site over. But if you google Liturgical Abuses in Catholic Church or YouTube Clown Masses you should come up with a selection of them. Some do not appear to be Catholic but it is difficult to tell. A few do identify the church.

One was later identified as an Anglician Mass. That’s the one where all at the altar are clowns, the “chalice” is a Pyrex bowl and the “bread” is the size of a pizza not to mention the “priest” blowing bubbles, from what I would assume to be holy water, around the altar. This could be another reason why 400,000 Episcopalians have come over to Rome. I sure would.

The Oakland one was Catholic, unfortunately.
 
To me the one picture of Pope Benedict with a clown looks really fake. The lighting off of both of them is quite different. Anyone think that picture is real or know where it was taken?

I’m not saying there is no clown masses but I haven’t even heard of them until today… so I agree with a previous poster that this might be used to infuriate those against the Novus Ordo.
 
Can you cite the picture of Pope Benedict? Was the priest dressed as a clown? Was the clown receiving a blessing from the Pope?

On Monday night, Marcus Grodi, on The Journey Home, was discussing the Mass with three Swedes. One reported going to a Mass in the US where the priest was throwing out teddy bears to the children as he approached the altar. Another, a monk, reported that his Swedish students went to an American Mass and questioned the validity of the Mass.
 
A lot of this garbage to me is the work of the supporters of the “sola pittura” denomination where people just look at fake and at real but often out of contest pictures.

I have not seen a large number of information about clown masses in the Catholic Church. I am sure that there have been some really nasty and disappointing abuses in the celebration of the Mass over the years, but we should not fall into the psychological fallacy of generalizing.

I have seen pictures of priests and even popes that might raise my eyebrow; however, I do not know of the context where they were taken. Would you trust a fireman that always goes to work dressed like a clown? I would not! Would you be thankful if a clown were to rush out of the circus tent to pull you out of a house in flames? I would!
 
One of the issues with pictures and videos found on the internet are very hard to verify where they originated from. It is my guess that many, if not most, come from the Episcopal Church rather than the Catholic Church.

Then there is the added issue of pictures being edited. This was the case of pictures purported to be of liturgical dancing that were offered here a number of months ago.

Also with pictures there is the fact that we can not truly tell if they were taken at a Mass or at something other than a Mass.

Such as the purported liturgical dancing before the bishop at an Catholic conference in LA when the dancing actually took place outside of the Mass, that is before the Mass began.

People like to think that pictures and videos are incontrovertible evidence but they are not always so especially when those either taking the pictures (especially when editing them) and videos (an choosing only to show certain parts) have an agenda to push.
 
michaeldaniels said:
youtube.com/watch?v=ZQPkYwIOCRM

youtube.com/watch?v=roPPBpk4vcA
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Having watched these, I am skeptical.
True, some of the pictures appear to be a Mass.
But most have equally likely alternate explanations.

Were someone to have taken pictures during the rehearsals to my own confirmation, or First Commuion, or Wedding, I am certain they would look equally damning as many of those photographs. Particularly if someone were to pass them off as an actual Catholic Mass.

I believe for extraordinary accusations, there should be extraordinary evidence.
I would want some kind of proof that it is a Mass and that it is Catholic.
 
‘Clown mass’ is a generic term for Masses with irreverent, populist additions; like ‘everybody in the sanctuary’, kids drawings on the altar, ad-hoc liturgies etc.

The notion of the sacred (set apart, taboo) is not promoted, while democracy and populism are. Hence you get the laity being encouraged to enter the formerly sacred precinct wearing their street clothes. Symbolically, there is now no barrier to this, with the altar rails gone.

Priest makes jokes from the pulpit, lets the laity orate at funeral Masses, permits novelty and ignores tradition … doesn’t need to happen in every diocese at once but with enough time the old ones will forget and the young ones will never know …

Then, people wonder why people chat in church or behave casually. The reason is they’re being cued that there’s nothing special going on, so why not?

**You can’t have it both ways; a friendly communal, non-hierarchial gathering and a sacred, mysterious, awesome, taboo-laden rite. **

I think we have reached what I’d call the ‘Revolutionary’s Dilemma’; when you’ve removed the icons, pared-down the Liturgy, stripped the churches and dropped the devotions, where can you go from there?

I’m from Ireland. It’s terrible here. With the latest scandals and Post-Vat II reforms in full effect I have the sense of a terrible attrition in progress; it just happens so slowly in human terms you wouldn’t notice it.

Out of the ashes, I hope, will come more common TLMs, orthodox clergy, the old catechisms being used and sterner preaching from the pulpit. We can’t escape the death of the body and Judgement; I think we could be making better use of our time in the interim.
 
I sometimes think it these rumors are nothing but an urban legend; a type of anti-Mass propaganda aimed at lampooning the Mass of today. I know that the same pictures keep getting recirculated so there’s not really much to them. Also, there is virtually no documentation ever presented with these pictures. They are shown ambush style, as seen above.

I guess if one is looking for something to get angry about, one can always find it on the internet.
 
I have not seen a clown Mass. I will not name names and parishes since that is a violation of forum rules.

I have seen tiger striped vestments worn on game day at a university parish back when I was in grad school in the late 70s. As a cathedral chorister, I have seen with my own eyes women dressed in diaphonous gowns wafting bowls of incense leading the entrance procession for our diocese’s 25th anniversary Mass and dancing at the Offertory. I have seen similar dancing at other diocesan Masses as well as dancers with 10’ tall beribboned poles inside the cathedral strutting about for the entrance processional as if they were Mardi Gras flambeaux carriers to the point where I and several other cathedral choristers refused to sing for any more diocesan Masses.

Pish-tosh and pooh-pooh me all you want. I saw those with my own eyes. These were not urban legends nor were any of the Masses well publicized at a certain parish in Minneapolis. Just because you have not seen any of these abuses does not mean that they do not exist.
 
praise_Jesus said:
To me the one picture of Pope Benedict with a clown looks really fake. The lighting off of both of them is quite different. Anyone think that picture is real or know where it was taken?.
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There is also no indication that this was even at a Mass. If it wasn’t at a Mass, what would be the big deal about the Pope meeting a clown?
 
Also, the picture of a skull is not an inappropriate thing at a Mass. It is a traditional element of Catholic iconography related to death.

And considering that vestments of the clergy are red, signifying the feast of a martyr, that would be entirely appropriate. Especially if it was one element of many.
 
I once saw a nun cartwheeling down the aisle before the book of the gospels…I saw it and was offended…This was a student chapel…I never saw it done again

It was terrible
 
pnewton said:
I sometimes think it these rumors are nothing but an urban legend; a type of anti-Mass propaganda aimed at lampooning the Mass of today. I know that the same pictures keep getting recirculated so there’s not really much to them. Also, there is virtually no documentation ever presented with these pictures. They are shown ambush style, as seen above.

I guess if one is looking for something to get angry about, one can always find it on the internet.
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Newt,

You disappoint me if you are suggesting a conspiracy theory against the Novus Ordo based on photo-shopped pictures.
 
giuseppeTO said:
Newt,

You disappoint me if you are suggesting a conspiracy theory against the Novus Ordo based on photo-shopped pictures.
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I never said conspiracy. However, these photos are often undocumented here. As said earlier, many of these pictures are outside of the context of the Mass and in one instance in which the documentation was traced back to the source a few years ago, was an Episcopal ceremony. As far as the pope/clown picture, that has not documentation. In absence of such, it has no meaning. These photos are often no more than a type Rosharch tests that reveal only the person making comments on it, not the state of the Church. More information is read into them that is available from them.

BTW - No one here is pro-Clown Masses. I really do not understand why it keeps being brought up as if it proves something.
 
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