P
Philthy
Guest
I’m not sure this is actually known, is it? Was Mary God’s only option? Probably too speculative and off topic to discuss…If Mary had said No at the Annunciation, God would not have become incarnate.
PAX
- Status
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
And everyone you mentioned followed that way.
As to your last part, she is integral, but not the central part.
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
No, she was not.
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
True.What you say is true,however,of all the ways God could have chosen to become incarnate,he chose a humble Jewish girl named Mary.That alone sets Our Beloved and Blessed Mother Mary apart from all of God’s other creatures.
D
Deconi
Guest
Yes. She is!
G
Good_Fella
Guest
All that God wills is with absolute necessity. Hence, whatever God wills cannot be otherwise. We can speak of human creatures being in the position to choose among various options and deciding on the best course of action to take, but this is not so of God, who is omniscient and all wise. There are no options with God, which implies one being deficient in knowledge and constrained by uncertainty, let alone the three dimensions of time.
PAX
:heaven:
G
Good_Fella
Guest
With Mary having led the way by her Fiat (Luke 1:38).
Agreed - not central, but fundamental by Divine decree.
PAX
:heaven:
D
Deconi
Guest
J
JM3
Guest
So apparently Marian devotion is a get-out-of-hell-free-card? Please!
Here is your simple answer:
It is quite clear that your understanding of worship and the Blessed Virgin’s place in the hierarchy of heaven is flawed. Your ridicule shows that you have no interest in correcting your misguided reasoning.
Consider the dust shaken.
(If the reference is unfamiliar to you, see Mark 6:11)
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
There were people saying Yes to God before Mary.
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
Nope. I’m pretty sure God is NOT limited to Mary.
G
Good_Fella
Guest
And there were souls that were saved before Jesus died on the Cross for their sins. This does not mean they were exempted from having his merits applied to them. The incarnation, which resulted from Mary’s fiat, embraces all time since the fall. So, unless Mary had said Yes to God at the Annunciation, the Yes of all the righteous people in the OT would have had no salvific value. There would not even be one Messianic prophecy in the OT if Mary had said No to God’s will. We should bear in mind that God does not have to save us from our sins but, in His love and mercy, He desires that everyone be saved, provided they say Yes to Him. Mary pronounced her fiat on behalf of all of us, including herself. The Church has believed this since earliest times, as is evident in the writings of the 2nd century Church Fathers, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, who bear witness to the Apostolic faith.
*PAX *
:heaven:
G
Good_Fella
Guest
Do you honestly believe that our saying Yes or No to God imposes a limitation on Him?
It cant, because the conditions for our salvation have been ordained by God Himself. God is Lord over all His creation.The truth is there is nothing that God has created that limits Him, but God cannot contradict Himself. All that God has ordained exists by absolute necessity in conformity with all the attributes of His divine essence. When God created the world, “He saw that it was good” - not that it was the ‘best’ of all possible worlds. God created a perfect world and a perfect man and woman. Creation is perfect, though not absolutely, since it has the potential to fall from the state of absolute perfection, which alone is God. Still, it is perfect because it exists by Divine necessity. There can be no better world than that which was caused by God, albeit its apparent flaws. I say apparent, since we can’t see the entire picture that forms God’s perfect, single idea. All that God has ordained precludes any other option, or else there is potentiality in God Himself. But God is pure Act in His immutability. There is no possibility of there being anything different in what God has ordained. So, relatively speaking, if God could have opted for a plan that didn’t fundamentally include Mary, He would have. Since God had sent the angel Gabriel to Mary, He couldn’t have opted otherwise, unless there were potential for change in the nature of His divine essence.
PAX
:heaven:
D
Deconi
Guest
Then, my friend, you do not understand Him as well as you think.
In the context of the subject matter at hand, YES, HE IS!
A
AveOTheotokos
Guest
God is not limited BY Mary, but he chose to limit himself TO Mary through the incarnation, becoming fully man for our sake.Then, my friend, you do not understand Him as well as you think.
In the context of the subject matter at hand, YES, HE IS!
In the greatest act of humility, God became a helpless infant completely reliant on his mother, entrusting the salvation of the world to not only her initial “yes” in her Fiat, but also on the continuous “yes” she proclaimed every day that she nurtured and protected our Lord.
Mary brought Jesus, the culmination of God’s Graces, to us through her yes. She held, loved, cared for our graces, and then at the Wedding at Cana, she gave those to the world, even after being warned by her Son that doing so would start the chain of events that would lead to both His and her hour of ultimate suffering.
Jesus gave Mary a choice at that moment, and out of her perfect love for God and His will, she again said “yes” and turned over to the world the graces that she had protected and nurtured so dearly.
She did this, instructing us to “do whatever He tells you.” Mary always points us to her Son. Her entire life was dedicated to bringing the grace of Jesus Christ to the world and perpetually directing us to that grace.
On the cross, Jesus gave us to His mother so that we may be under the same nurturing and protection that He was because He wanted us to have a perfect mother who would always direct us back to Him and all the graces of God.
A
AveOTheotokos
Guest
If This understanding of Mary was dangerous or heretical, I would think the Church would not have canonized Saints like Luis de Montfort, Catherine Laboure, Maximilian Kolbe, and John Paul the Great.
In canonizing them, the Church is giving us examples of how to live as followers of Christ. If their Marian devotions were so detrimental or heretical, I doubt they would be elevated to such lofty examples for us to emulate.
In canonizing them, the Church is giving us examples of how to live as followers of Christ. If their Marian devotions were so detrimental or heretical, I doubt they would be elevated to such lofty examples for us to emulate.
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
no he is not.then, my friend, you do not understand him as well as you think.
In the context of the subject matter at hand, yes, he is!
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
No. I just don’t believe Mary was His only option. After all, God is God and humans are…
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
I think she’d be really upset to find out people pointing to her instead of Him.
- Status