Coalition launches Libya attacks

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GaryTaylor said:
I do think its a shame that Obama could get that drival to come out of his mouth about “we can’t stand by and let tyranny rule” When thats exactly what we’ve done for 100-years between Russia, China, Cuba, Iran, Lebonnon, Germany, Spain and everywhere else.🤷 But today we can’t stand it?
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Now this I agree with. It’s not our job to overthrow tyrants over there, especially when for every tyrant that falls, an entity like Hamas may rise up and fill the vacuum–look what happened when we pressured the Palestinians to end al Fatah’s power. Hamas came to power.

If we want to get at the root of such events, we should be playing much more heavily-handed with Saudi Arabia, and its governmental, semi-private, and private donations and “charities,” and regulating and monitoring the hajj traffic in and out of Mecca and Medina.

They’re the ones stirring the pot in all these places, enabling arms purchases and shipments and always, always discreetly peddling the pro-jihadi point of view behind the scenes, and a lot of the deals go down in the hobnobbing that goes on among all the traffic in and out of Mecca and Medina.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Oh its a mess, Gaddhafi is already claiming the Crusaders are back? But apparently the air support is only to help the rebels free the country. How it turns out? God only knows.

I know they quoted a Doctor from a Hosp their this morning who said the Hosp floors are completely Red from Blood, and most are dead. THe N.H. Register stated this morning anyway.

Talking about they are not sending in troops. There’s none to send.🤷 They have to re-instate the draft to do that. And were not far from that. Everyones tired of the kids going over their and returning in body bags, for what? To turn around and hand a corrupt government back over to them? England and the US had enough playing war.

I do think its a shame that Obama could get that drival to come out of his mouth about “we can’t stand by and let tyranny rule” When thats exactly what we’ve done for 100-years between Russia, China, Cuba, Iran, Lebonnon, Germany, Spain and everywhere else.🤷 But today we can’t stand it?
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The difference is this - we think we can “win” with Libya (who have no known nuclear missiles themselves). Whereas China, Korea and Iran etc actually DO have nuclear weapons and we’re not guaranteed a victory. Picking fights with someone who is equally as powerful as you is not a good idea, much better for a bully to pick on a smaller kid than someone the same size as them, and then congratulate yourself on stopping a tyrant.
 
The rebels have been begging for help and as I understand it this is France and the U.K.'s show we are going to mostly be there in a support role.
 
gilliam said:
Muammar Gaddafi threatened to attack both military and civilian targets in the Mediterranean in retaliation against air and sea strikes on Libyan air defences, AFP reports. Not sure how he will do that. He does have scuds and could try to shoot them at Italy or France.
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I do so hope he will wait until Monday so as to not interrupt the Presidents well-deserved Spring Break.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
The rebels have been begging for help and as I understand it this is France and the U.K.'s show we are going to mostly be there in a support role.
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From what I can tell, we are currently coordinating the command and control of this operation out of our US joint African Command operations (AFRICOM) based in Germany.

Most of the cruse missile attacks (over 110 so far) have come from US Naval ships. We have assembled quite an armada of US naval ships in the area. Including submarines and missile destroyers (who participated in the attack yesterday and today. Here is a presentation from yesterday that shows the ships participating.
3.bp.blogspot.com/-TfNszJXcK0M/TYYKmrOUo5I/AAAAAAAAII4/UuUvNFVNO5g/s400/Slide3.JPG

From news reports out of Germany, 19 US warplanes, including three B2 bombers dropped 40 bombs “on a major Libyan airfield” at dawn today.

The US is flying drones over Libya and the US has F-16s in Italy ready to take off as of this morning US AWACS and other support planes are also deployed.

The US is definitely playing more than a “support role.” in this operation.

So far most of the attacks upon Libyan forces (e.g., tanks and artillery and supply lines) seem to be being conducted by the French Air Force. France has deployed about 20 war planes, including their own AWACS

Other forces:
  • The UK has also launched cruse missiles to take out air defenses. They are moving an air craft carrier into position for air attacks. They have also contributed planes that are currently participating in some of the attacks upon Libyan forces.
  • The United Arab Emirates will be contributing 24 fighter jets (Mirage 2000-9s and F-16s)
  • Qatar will contribute between four and six Mirage 2000-5s,
  • Italy has now decided to send 8 planes since one of their tow boats was captured by Libyan forces
  • Denmark has contributed 4 F-16s
  • Canada has contributed 6 F-18s
There are a number of codenames being used, here are some of the codenames released that are being used:
Operation Odyssey Dawn - The US military operation.
Operation Ellamy - The UK military effort
Operation Mobile - The Canadian component.
Operation Harmattan- The French military operation.

It is a pretty impressive coalition and it looks like it is growing. Although as civilians are killed because of this action, we may see the coalition fragment. The Arab League is already having reservations about this: Amr Moussa, the head of the Arab League says that Arabs did not want military strikes by Western powers that hit civilians when the League called for a no-fly zone over Libya, saying:
“What is happening in Libya differs from the aim of imposing a no-fly zone, and what we want is the protection of civilians and not the bombardment of more civilians.”
No one knows how this will play out. It has become clear a day after its imposition that what allied forces are doing is NOT imposing a “No-Fly Zone”, so much as they are imposing absolute air supremacy in order to enable them to conduct operations against fielded Libyan forces on the ground. Qaddafi is not surrendering in fact, as of this morning, his tanks have advanced inside at least two more cities.
 
The Taliban has issued a statement condemning the strikes in Libya, saying they represent a “politically-motivated and uncalled-for intervention and adventure” of Western nations in the internal affairs of the country.
The “anti-Islamic” and “colonialist” forces don’t want a solution to the bloodshed, the statement said, but rather plan to weaken Libya and take its oil through “direct invasions.”

The Taliban called on Muslims and rulers in the Islamic world not to remain neutral and to help Libya to “wriggle free” and “save itself from the tentacles of the foreign colonialism.”

Add Russia to the list of those publicly disapproving of military action in Libya now that hostilities have begun. China has “expressed regret,” the African Union has called for an “immediate halt,” and now Moscow has “reacted ‘with regret’” to the air strikes, according to a report by CNN.
 
gilliam said:
The Taliban has issued a statement condemning the strikes in Libya, saying they represent a “politically-motivated and uncalled-for intervention and adventure” of Western nations in the internal affairs of the country.
The “anti-Islamic” and “colonialist” forces don’t want a solution to the bloodshed, the statement said, but rather plan to weaken Libya and take its oil through “direct invasions.”

The Taliban called on Muslims and rulers in the Islamic world not to remain neutral and to help Libya to “wriggle free” and “save itself from the tentacles of the foreign colonialism.”

Add Russia to the list of those publicly disapproving of military action in Libya now that hostilities have begun. China has “expressed regret,” the African Union has called for an “immediate halt,” and now Moscow has “reacted ‘with regret’” to the air strikes, according to a report by CNN.
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Apparently anything outside of whatever hole the Taliban is currently in is a western nation to them. Bomb them with maps next time, tyvm.
 
gilliam said:
From what I can tell, we are currently coordinating the command and control of this operation out of our US joint African Command operations (AFRICOM) based in Germany.

Most of the cruse missile attacks (over 110 so far) have come from US Naval ships. We have assembled quite an armada of US naval ships in the area. Including submarines and missile destroyers (who participated in the attack yesterday and today. Here is a presentation from yesterday that shows the ships participating.
3.bp.blogspot.com/-TfNszJXcK0M/TYYKmrOUo5I/AAAAAAAAII4/UuUvNFVNO5g/s400/Slide3.JPG

From news reports out of Germany, 19 US warplanes, including three B2 bombers dropped 40 bombs “on a major Libyan airfield” at dawn today.

The US is flying drones over Libya and the US has F-16s in Italy ready to take off as of this morning US AWACS and other support planes are also deployed.

The US is definitely playing more than a “support role.” in this operation.

So far most of the attacks upon Libyan forces (e.g., tanks and artillery and supply lines) seem to be being conducted by the French Air Force. France has deployed about 20 war planes, including their own AWACS

Other forces:
  • The UK has also launched cruse missiles to take out air defenses. They are moving an air craft carrier into position for air attacks. They have also contributed planes that are currently participating in some of the attacks upon Libyan forces.
  • The United Arab Emirates will be contributing 24 fighter jets (Mirage 2000-9s and F-16s)
  • Qatar will contribute between four and six Mirage 2000-5s,
  • Italy has now decided to send 8 planes since one of their tow boats was captured by Libyan forces
  • Denmark has contributed 4 F-16s
  • Canada has contributed 6 F-18s
It is a pretty impressive coalition and it looks like it is growing. Although as civilians are killed because of this action, we may see the coalition fragment. The Arab League is already having reservations about this: Amr Moussa, the head of the Arab League says that Arabs did not want military strikes by Western powers that hit civilians when the League called for a no-fly zone over Libya, saying:
“What is happening in Libya differs from the aim of imposing a no-fly zone, and what we want is the protection of civilians and not the bombardment of more civilians.”

No one knows how this will play out. It has become clear a day after its imposition that what allied forces are doing is NOT imposing a “No-Fly Zone”, so much as they are imposing absolute air supremacy in order to enable them to conduct operations against fielded Libyan forces on the ground. Qaddafi is not surrendering in fact, as of this morning, his tanks have advanced inside at least two more cities.
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Isn’t that just horrifying. If that dosn’t look like the start of major conflict. I don’t know what does.

And your right, with the position of the Taliban I’m sure they are prepared for anything. They have to look at the worst case senerio’s all the time.
 
Norway’s contribution of six F16 fighter jets to the international air campaign will set off for bases close to the African nation romorrow morning.

The US military is working to hand over control of the Libya operation to “a coalition” in the next few days, an offical tells Reuters.

A number of Liberal Democratic Congressmen have come out against the operation.
politico.com/news/stories/0311/51595.html
 
gilliam said:
Although there are several countries involved in the Libya operation, Justin Elliott in Salon.com’s War Room argues that it is “almost entirely an American operation, albeit one that has been packaged to give it an international look.”
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Salon.com? Well they’re certainly unbiased, not afraid to criticize the liberal president :rolleyes:

Here’s what they’re writing in England;

The President’s reluctance to act over Libya signals a new worrying direction for the United States, says Janet Daley.

So the West got it together in the end. By the time you read this, it may be clearer whether that happened at five minutes to midnight or five minutes past. If the latter – if it proves to be too late for the people of Libya – then the blame will lie almost entirely at the door of the Obama administration. After weeks of dithering and mixed signals (remember that jibe from the US Defence Secretary about David Cameron’s “loose talk”?) punctuated by periods of impenetrable silence, the White House had a sudden epiphany and declared itself in favour of a UN resolution allowing much more than a no-fly zone.

The word from Washington is that Hillary Clinton was behind this conversion: Barack Obama had joked publicly about the pressure that the Secretary of State was putting on him to overcome his reservations – which seemed to revolve primarily around his reluctance to bear any resemblance to his predecessor in the run-up to what is clearly going to be a difficult election. But the history of this ignominious chapter in American foreign policy is already being re-written in Washington with an enthusiastic chorus of support from Obama fans here: on Friday, Labour backbenchers and the BBC were already suggesting that all this apparent floundering was actually part of a superbly clever strategy. America had deliberately refrained from taking the lead on Libya, thus allowing “space” for the Arab nations and the UN to “take their proper place” as the authors of any intervention policy. Contrary to appearances then, Mr Obama is not out of his depth. Neither is he a cynic who secretly wants to keep Gaddafi in power for the sake of a quiet life (sometimes known as “stability in the region”) while he struggles with Congress over his tricky domestic programme. In other words, they were only pretending to be useless: it may have looked like a collapse of moral leadership to you but it really went completely according to plan.

Even if we take this wildly charitable interpretation at face value, what does it say about the role that America is choosing to adopt on the global stage? That in future we can expect it to follow rather than lead? That it has abdicated its role as defender and standard bearer for the principle of freedom – the idea that all men are born with inalienable rights to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”, which the great founding documents of the United States declare to be universal and not simply the birthright of residents of one nation? If America is now to make its commitment to those values conditional – even when the oppressed populations of totalitarian countries are putting their lives at risk to embrace them – then we are living in a very different world from the one to which we have been accustomed. And this is a far, far bigger leap than is assumed by the champions of “international law” and multinational bodies who are happy to see America take a back seat – at least until the ammunition starts to fly.

telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/janetdaley/8392789/If-the-Founding-Fathers-could-see-Obama-now.html
 
amconmag.com/blog/2011/03/07/its-libyas-war-not-ours/

*To establish a secure no-fly zone, we would have to bomb radar installations, anti-aircraft batteries, missile sites and airfields, and destroy the Libyan air force on the ground, to keep the skies secure for U.S. pilots.

These would be acts of war against a nation that has not attacked us.
**Where do we get the legal and moral right to do this? **Has Congress, which alone has the power to declare war, authorized Barack Obama to attack Libya?

The president may respond to an attack on American territory or U.S. citizens, but Libya has not done that since Lockerbie, more than two decades ago…

Let the “world community” take the lead on this one.

Tell them, this time, the Yanks are not coming.
 
The Libyan government is declaring another cease fire as of 9pm their time and asking all their citizens to participate in a peaceful march from Tripoli to Bangazi. Really, it isn’t a joke, they really are asking for that.
 
gilliam said:
The Libyan government is declaring another cease fire as of 9pm their time and asking all their citizens to participate in a peaceful march from Tripoli to Bangazi. Really, it isn’t a joke, they really are asking for that.
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Hmmm… isn’t the distance between those two cities 400 miles (650 km)? Sounds like a healthy walk. I hope they pack a lunch.

As for the cease fire, its a sticky problem. I think the international community will expect the coalition to allow Gaddafi’s forces an opportunity to retreat under a cease-fire offer. On the other hand, his forces have already violated a cease-fire declaration.
 
Dale_M said:
Hmmm… isn’t the distance between those two cities 400 miles (650 km)? Sounds like a healthy walk. I hope they pack a lunch.
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And mostly desert. Not something you want to embark on at the spare of the moment.
As for the cease fire, its a sticky problem. I think the international community will expect the coalition to allow Gaddafi’s forces an opportunity to retreat under a cease-fire offer. On the other hand, his forces have already violated a cease-fire declaration.
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We will have to see, but I doubt it will stop the suppression of anti-air sites right now. Especially since he ignored his previous cease fire proclamation.

On a side note: To get an idea of who the Libyan rebels are and what they want, the Wall Street Journal has written an appraisal.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
We had no business messing in Libya, and that opinion was held by most of the commenters on this Forum as well as the public.
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The news has reported some serious anti-American demonstrations in Libya as a result of these unlawful attacks. It has been reported that several civilians have been killed by the strikes.
 
Personally, I support the enforcement of a no fly zone but I don’t support attacks on Libya. I wish that we could have used exclusively diplomatic means of protecting the Libyan rebels from what is going on. I really consider myself to be mostly a pacifist. I support war as long as it fits the definition of a Just War. Otherwise, I don’t.

Just War Doctrine
 
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