Coalition launches Libya attacks

[Dale_M]

Personally, I support the enforcement of a no fly zone but I don’t support attacks on Libya.

Which seems to put you in the company of many, including the leadership of the Arab League. However, it seems to be an impossible position to uphold, as US Secretary of Defense Gates testified before Congress a couple weeks ago.
reuters.com/article/2011/03/02/us-libya-usa-pentagon-idUSTRE7214EX20110302

I wish that we could have used exclusively diplomatic means of protecting the Libyan rebels from what is going on.

That would have been nice, but there doesn’t seem to be any reason to think it would have worked. Gaddafi decided to use his military against the opposition, and he had them outgunned. They were on the verge of being crushed when the UN resolution passed (in what seemed an emergency maneuver.)

I support war as long as it fits the definition of a Just War. Otherwise, I don’t.

Unfortunately, the standards of what constitutes a just war are not clear cut. Catholic proponents of that theory can, and have, come down on opposite sides when declaring the legitimacy of a given conflict.

 

[colmywaykurtz]

Red herring, no one is calling for ground troops, besides, there’s already enough “rebels” that ground troops aren’t needed, just air cover.

And I seem to remember YOU supporting us sending air support WEEKS ago, while President do-nothing had to be pushed and prodded by Hillary and Europe.

I would have had a great deal more respect for Obama if he had just told Hilary to take a flying leap onto a live grenade, that “IT’S NOT OUR BUSINESS, AND WE WILL NOT GET INVOLVED. PERIOD. PERIOD!”

Look how quickly those ingrate Libyans turn on us when a few civilians get killed. Much as I dislike Qadafi, when they get rid of him, watch and see if somebody like Muslim Brotherhood or al-Qaeda doesn’t come to power.

Squeaky-clean American-style democracy is a fool’s dream in that place–North Africa, the Middle East, the whole Islamic realm. It won’t happen till those people drop Islam and become either Christian or Judaic.

 

[Darryl1958]

I would have had a great deal more respect for Obama if he had just told Hilary to take a flying leap onto a live grenade, that “IT’S NOT OUR BUSINESS, AND WE WILL NOT GET INVOLVED. PERIOD. PERIOD!”

It would have been more consistent with the attitude that got him elected in the first place.
As it is, running his decision through the American people via Congress has not even been contemplated by him as of yet.

Look how quickly those ingrate Libyans turn on us when a few civilians get killed. Much as I dislike Qadafi, when they get rid of him, watch and see if somebody like Muslim Brotherhood or al-Qaeda doesn’t come to power.

Have the Libyans themselves followed the lead of the Arab League and turned on the military aid from the West too now?

Squeaky-clean American-style democracy is a fool’s dream in that place–North Africa, the Middle East, the whole Islamic realm. It won’t happen till those people drop Islam and become either Christian or Judaic.

Sharia and the individual human rights necessary for civil society are simply incompatible

 

[DawnInTexas]

We had no business messing in Libya, and that opinion was held by most of the commenters on this Forum as well as the public. Even now, I hope he won’t be “dragged into” sending ground troops into Libya as some would have him do. Have our armed forces nothing else to do, say in the Middle East?

Obama went into Libya without consulting Congress.

How can this be?

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[Nec5]

Obama went into Libya without consulting Congress.

How can this be?

We haven’t declared war since the 1940s, yet we’ve been in quite a few wars. Sadly, no one cares or even thinks it’s much of a problem.

 

[bbarrick8383]

We haven’t declared war since the 1940s, yet we’ve been in quite a few wars. Sadly, no one cares or even thinks it’s much of a problem.

Blame it on all the moderates and liberals who have killed the constitution. It’s a dead document, we don’t need it.

Wait I forgot, it’s a living document when we do need it for social purposes.

I’m so confused.

 

[sidbrown]

Blame it on all the moderates and liberals who have killed the constitution. It’s a dead document, we don’t need it.

Wait I forgot, it’s a living document when we do need it for social purposes.

I’m so confused.

In launching a war against Libya without the approval of Congress, hasn’t President Obama chosen to ignore the US Constitution which delegates the power to declare war to the Congress? Effectively, he has chosen to wage war without consulting either Congress or the American People, so what is that except an exercise of a dictatorial power?

 

[sidbrown]

amconmag.com/blog/2011/03/07/its-libyas-war-not-ours/

*To establish a secure no-fly zone, we would have to bomb radar installations, anti-aircraft batteries, missile sites and airfields, and destroy the Libyan air force on the ground, to keep the skies secure for U.S. pilots.

These would be acts of war against a nation that has not attacked us.*
**Where do we get the legal and moral right to do this? **

And of course, it has been reported that innocent libyan civilians have been killed by the US and coalition forces.

 

[human_being]

examiner.com/foreign-policy-in-national/ron-paul-says-we-should-stay-out-of-entangling-alliances-video

*Neil Cavuto asked the Congressman, “You’re not a fan of digging even deeper here”? Dr. Paul responded with a very important question I’d like to see John McCain, Bill Kristol, Joe Lieberman or Hillary Clinton answer, **“Where are we going to borrow it from”?

I suppose they believe our banker, China will continue to loan us money indefinitely. Wrong.**
“We are spending money overseas, we blow up countries and** then we have to rebuild them at the same time we can’t even rebuild our own infrastructure**”.

Paul also reiterates what Pat Buchanan said recently about a US no-fly zone over Libya saying it’s an act of war. What if somebody closed our airspaces down? We would want to go to war over such a hostile action.

 

[bbarrick8383]

examiner.com/foreign-policy-in-national/ron-paul-says-we-should-stay-out-of-entangling-alliances-video

*Neil Cavuto asked the Congressman, “You’re not a fan of digging even deeper here”? Dr. Paul responded with a very important question I’d like to see John McCain, Bill Kristol, Joe Lieberman or Hillary Clinton answer, **“Where are we going to borrow it from”?

I suppose they believe our banker, China will continue to loan us money indefinitely. Wrong.***
“We are spending money overseas, we blow up countries and** then we have to rebuild them at the same time we can’t even rebuild our own infrastructure**”.

Paul also reiterates what Pat Buchanan said recently about a US no-fly zone over Libya saying it’s an act of war. What if somebody closed our airspaces down? We would want to go to war over such a hostile action.

Does Ron Paul sound pretty good right about now?

 

[bbarrick8383]

In launching a war against Libya without the approval of Congress, hasn’t President Obama chosen to ignore the US Constitution which delegates the power to declare war to the Congress? Effectively, he has chosen to wage war without consulting either Congress or the American People, so what is that except an exercise of a dictatorial power?

They have been ignoring the constitution for years now.

Obama said himself it was a document of negative liberties, it says what the government can not do, but does not say what the government should do on your behalf. So, they make it up as they go, that’s what happens when you ignore the rule book.

 

[human_being]

amconmag.com/blog/2011/03/07/its-libyas-war-not-ours/

If we attack Libya, we could not let Gadhafi prevail and plot revenge attacks on U.S. airliners. Having wounded the snake, we would have to go in and kill it. And the interventionists know this, and this is what they are all about.
Never strike a king unless you kill him. In for a dime, in for a dollar. If we declare a no-fly zone, we have to attack Libya. And if we attack Libya, an act of war,* we have to see that the war is won.**
*

 

[human_being]

Does Ron Paul sound pretty good right about now?

I don’t know all about Ron Paul…but these statements are good right about now.
Maybe too late though…Those who push the 'America is the world police and needs to stand up as the world leader(even though our own house, is far from in order)…"…agenda…pushed and pushec and pushed as if it is our sole responsiblity…There are other coalitions of Muaslims over there which could ease the unrest in there own neck of the woods(or desert)…but we step in becauswe some know there is money to be made and power to be had…They do not want our own public workers to be paid because they cry loudly “WE ARE BROKE!!!”…Yet 100 misles were fired in the first attack here…and they go for 1.7 million dollars apiece…They don’t want welfare for our own yet spend trillions by the month on people who most times prove that they do not appreciate our being on their Muslim lands…,and then the money grubbing military establishment can continue to feel needed and take as much tax money as they think they need (and it’s never enough)…This is not national defense…It is an act of war on yet another nation who has not attacked us…and the instibility wil;l continue and the oil privces will remain on the rise…Do ya think any of the Arab nations could give us a break on oil for helping them??? Not a chance…They’d love to see us suffer, IMO…

 

[human_being]

From what I can tell, we are currently coordinating the command and control of this operation out of our US joint African Command operations (AFRICOM) based in Germany.

Most of the cruse missile attacks (over 110 so far) have come from US Naval ships. We have assembled quite an armada of US naval ships in the area. Including submarines and missile destroyers (who participated in the attack yesterday and today. Here is a presentation from yesterday that shows the ships participating.
3.bp.blogspot.com/-TfNszJXcK0M/TYYKmrOUo5I/AAAAAAAAII4/UuUvNFVNO5g/s400/Slide3.JPG

From news reports out of Germany, 19 US warplanes, including three B2 bombers dropped 40 bombs “on a major Libyan airfield” at dawn today.

The US is flying drones over Libya and the US has F-16s in Italy ready to take off as of this morning US AWACS and other support planes are also deployed.

The US is definitely playing more than a “support role.” in this operation.

So far most of the attacks upon Libyan forces (e.g., tanks and artillery and supply lines) seem to be being conducted by the French Air Force. France has deployed about 20 war planes, including their own AWACS

Other forces:

• The UK has also launched cruse missiles to take out air defenses. They are moving an air craft carrier into position for air attacks. They have also contributed planes that are currently participating in some of the attacks upon Libyan forces.
• The United Arab Emirates will be contributing 24 fighter jets (Mirage 2000-9s and F-16s)
• Qatar will contribute between four and six Mirage 2000-5s,
• Italy has now decided to send 8 planes since one of their tow boats was captured by Libyan forces
• Denmark has contributed 4 F-16s
• Canada has contributed 6 F-18s

There are a number of codenames being used, here are some of the codenames released that are being used:
Operation Odyssey Dawn - The US military operation.
Operation Ellamy - The UK military effort
Operation Mobile - The Canadian component.
Operation Harmattan- The French military operation.

It is a pretty impressive coalition and it looks like it is growing. Although as civilians are killed because of this action, we may see the coalition fragment. The Arab League is already having reservations about this: Amr Moussa, the head of the Arab League says that Arabs did not want military strikes by Western powers that hit civilians when the League called for a no-fly zone over Libya, saying:
“What is happening in Libya differs from the aim of imposing a no-fly zone, and what we want is the protection of civilians and not the bombardment of more civilians.”
No one knows how this will play out. It has become clear a day after its imposition that what allied forces are doing is NOT imposing a “No-Fly Zone”, so much as they are imposing absolute air supremacy in order to enable them to conduct operations against fielded Libyan forces on the ground. Qaddafi is not surrendering in fact, as of this morning, his tanks have advanced inside at least two more cities.

And for 3 years now or more…all I hear is “WE ARE BROKE!!”…Well this makes it look like we have all kinds of money.

 

[human_being]

Try reading this for some clarity on this latest mid east incursion:

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2011/03/western-powers-are-behind-arab.html

I recognize one government. It is ruled by the King of Kings. All of the rest are lacking in any resemblance to it.

Where does this Catholic teaching come fom? He says it like it is KNOWN…I never knew it…Is it for real, this teaching…probably way off topic …

*Those of us familiar with Catholic prophecy concerning the Chastisement of God (which we are now in and will likely soon conclude) will result in the fall of Europe to Muslim and Marxist powers in an upheaval of anarchy. This may very well be payback for Euro-American subversion in the Arab world. We also know that Russia is involved in this somehow, and it would appear the United States is strangely silent, as if we are unable to do anything. We know this results in the fall of the Vatican in Rome, the assassination of our pope, and the rise of a new pope in exile who will crown a new French king that will eventually reestablish the Holy Roman Empire. We also know that nothing short of a direct intervention from God, a disaster of epic proportions and unrivaled in all of recorded history, will be the decisive blow to the powers of evil in this age. Before that happens however, the Church in Europe will be decimated, and European Christians will face the threshold of extinction. Exactly when and how this will all unfold is not known to us at this time, but with each passing month the emerging picture becomes a little more clear. *

 

[sidbrown]

And for 3 years now or more…all I hear is “WE ARE BROKE!!”…Well this makes it look like we have all kinds of money.

If the USA is broke why is it waging undeclared wars in Afghanistan and Libya?

 

[colmywaykurtz]

In launching a war against Libya without the approval of Congress, hasn’t President Obama chosen to ignore the US Constitution which delegates the power to declare war to the Congress? Effectively, he has chosen to wage war without consulting either Congress or the American People, so what is that except an exercise of a dictatorial power?

You have a point, though I would point out that Reagan didn’t have Congressional authorization either when he ordered Libya bombed in 1986, and two Libyan planes shot down. That situation could easily have led to a prolonged engagement as well, just as this one might.

 

[a_priori]

Blame it on all the moderates and liberals who have killed the constitution. It’s a dead document, we don’t need it.

Wait I forgot, it’s a living document when we do need it for social purposes.

I’m so confused.

The only part of the Constitution worth preserving is apparently the “penumbra”.

 

[a_priori]

If the USA is broke why is it waging undeclared wars in Afghanistan and Libya?

Because we are having a prolonged national psychotic episode that makes us believe that God is an American and that the “rightness” of our cause allows us to spend trillions upon trillions more than we take in. We are dying slowly and our leaders (who presumably reflect the values and priorities of the electorate) keep opening up new fiscal wounds to speed up our demise.

America’s enemies (who DO understand what a $14T+ debt will do) are ecstatic over yet another open sore to bleed money and potentially lives into another sand pile.

Thank God for people like Ron Paul. But he can’t hold back the overwhelming tide of American fiscal, military and geopolitical ignorance.

 

[Dale_M]

You have a point, though I would point out that Reagan didn’t have Congressional authorization either when he ordered Libya bombed in 1986, and two Libyan planes shot down. That situation could easily have led to a prolonged engagement as well, just as this one might.

The War Powers Resolution of 1973 allows the US President to commit US troops so long as Congress is notified within 48 hours. Those troops can remain engaged for up to 60 days without Congressional authorization.

I am not sure of the constitutionality of that act. However, presidents of both of the major parties have found it to be useful and I don’t think either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party have much interest in trying to repeal it.