T
TevereNauta
Guest
Let me throw out a few caveats before I start this thread. Firstly, it is a hypothetical question, not a ‘conspiracy theorists’ prophecy. Secondly, I have no solid research or statistics which as a whole support the initial question’s premise as imminent truth. Thirdly, all that said, given the current geo-political state of our world, I think this is a conversation worth having among practicing Catholics.
I am sure most all folks hereabouts have been following the recent political headlines, economic crises, and cultural decline of the Western World, but here’s a brief recap to set the meter of the initial question. In the West we have: cultural degeneracy to levels which perhaps exceed those of Sodom and Gomorrah, an economic system in the throws of a serious crisis to which governments’ solutions seem to find no fiscal remedy, an anti-Catholic media which disseminates its bias through channels political (Secularists) and religious (rise of ‘Evangelicals’), and arguably as a result of the formers negative birth rates in Europe and birth rates is serious decline in America.
All this considered, I ask: would the total collapse of the ‘Secular West’ be good for the Church. Emphatically, I say yes, it would. My point of reference for that assumption (having studied history extensively during my undergrad years) is the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.
During the latter years of the Roman Empire it was transitioning from an empire is the guise of a republic to an oppressive totalitarian state. Wars on the borders were frequent, and civil wars would become more frequent as the collapse continued and different imperial factions vied for control. Devaluation of the currency led to inflation, unsuccessful price fixing, greater hyperinflation, and finally deurbanization as people chose to flee to the woods when they could no longer pay the extreme taxes. Decadence and moral perversion among the rich were, to say the least, widespread. The poor were crushed by the state’s taxes (the seeds of Serfdom were sown) and, a markedly important fact, a great imbalance of trade existed between Rome and the East (China) as silver was exchanged by the former for finished products (silks and spices) from the latter.
Am I the only one who sees similarities here?
Importantly, during the maelstrom of Rome’s collapse, although the Catholic Church, the Church of Rome, was very much established and no longer persecuted, however it was competing with any number of rival churches and heresies, the Gnostics and Arians to name just a few, as well as a number of so-called mystery religions (e.g. Mithraism) and the leftovers of paganism. It is also worth mentioning that even after the reign of Constantine the Great there remained a sort of ‘cult of the emperor’ (one must see similarities here between them and modern politicians).
We speak of the 4th Century A.D… Fast forward five hundred years past Rome’s collapse and…
Europe is Catholic (Catholic in name in the West, Orthodox in the East but both still valid Churches). A firm Christian moral order has been imposed of a previously debauched society. The competing heresies and churches have been shelved or have destroyed themselves or been suppressed by the Church. Imperial authority has been replaced by Catholic authority: the Pope speaks and the secular governments listen (some it is true better than others)…and I know about the Byzantines and all that too, but for clarity’s sake we’ll speak of the West here. Christian knighthood is idealized, governments are local by necessity, and the Gospel is held to be the height of existence, as it should be. And yes, I know, living conditions were not ideal—those in the Medieval Ages did not bathe in creature comforts as we do—but spiritually speaking (in the main, of course there were scandals, there will always be scandals) Europe, the West, was healthy and Catholic.
My contention is that, should the overburdened—in every sense—Secular West fall, should the central authorities that are inextricably linked to hostility against the Church collapse, then the Church is in the perfect position, guided by God, to pick up the pieces and restore a Christian society. The competing so-called ‘churches’ of our ages, lacking a hierarchical structure and physical force to support it (Evangelicals et al) will fade away, their flocks to be reabsorbed into the one, true Flock of Christ.
It may not be a rich society as we know it, or pretty as we know it, but it will be Christian.
Thoughts?
I am sure most all folks hereabouts have been following the recent political headlines, economic crises, and cultural decline of the Western World, but here’s a brief recap to set the meter of the initial question. In the West we have: cultural degeneracy to levels which perhaps exceed those of Sodom and Gomorrah, an economic system in the throws of a serious crisis to which governments’ solutions seem to find no fiscal remedy, an anti-Catholic media which disseminates its bias through channels political (Secularists) and religious (rise of ‘Evangelicals’), and arguably as a result of the formers negative birth rates in Europe and birth rates is serious decline in America.
All this considered, I ask: would the total collapse of the ‘Secular West’ be good for the Church. Emphatically, I say yes, it would. My point of reference for that assumption (having studied history extensively during my undergrad years) is the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.
During the latter years of the Roman Empire it was transitioning from an empire is the guise of a republic to an oppressive totalitarian state. Wars on the borders were frequent, and civil wars would become more frequent as the collapse continued and different imperial factions vied for control. Devaluation of the currency led to inflation, unsuccessful price fixing, greater hyperinflation, and finally deurbanization as people chose to flee to the woods when they could no longer pay the extreme taxes. Decadence and moral perversion among the rich were, to say the least, widespread. The poor were crushed by the state’s taxes (the seeds of Serfdom were sown) and, a markedly important fact, a great imbalance of trade existed between Rome and the East (China) as silver was exchanged by the former for finished products (silks and spices) from the latter.
Am I the only one who sees similarities here?
Importantly, during the maelstrom of Rome’s collapse, although the Catholic Church, the Church of Rome, was very much established and no longer persecuted, however it was competing with any number of rival churches and heresies, the Gnostics and Arians to name just a few, as well as a number of so-called mystery religions (e.g. Mithraism) and the leftovers of paganism. It is also worth mentioning that even after the reign of Constantine the Great there remained a sort of ‘cult of the emperor’ (one must see similarities here between them and modern politicians).
We speak of the 4th Century A.D… Fast forward five hundred years past Rome’s collapse and…
Europe is Catholic (Catholic in name in the West, Orthodox in the East but both still valid Churches). A firm Christian moral order has been imposed of a previously debauched society. The competing heresies and churches have been shelved or have destroyed themselves or been suppressed by the Church. Imperial authority has been replaced by Catholic authority: the Pope speaks and the secular governments listen (some it is true better than others)…and I know about the Byzantines and all that too, but for clarity’s sake we’ll speak of the West here. Christian knighthood is idealized, governments are local by necessity, and the Gospel is held to be the height of existence, as it should be. And yes, I know, living conditions were not ideal—those in the Medieval Ages did not bathe in creature comforts as we do—but spiritually speaking (in the main, of course there were scandals, there will always be scandals) Europe, the West, was healthy and Catholic.
My contention is that, should the overburdened—in every sense—Secular West fall, should the central authorities that are inextricably linked to hostility against the Church collapse, then the Church is in the perfect position, guided by God, to pick up the pieces and restore a Christian society. The competing so-called ‘churches’ of our ages, lacking a hierarchical structure and physical force to support it (Evangelicals et al) will fade away, their flocks to be reabsorbed into the one, true Flock of Christ.
It may not be a rich society as we know it, or pretty as we know it, but it will be Christian.
Thoughts?
