College - goes in Catholic comes out Atheist

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bdeville

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There seems to be much written and discussed about the problem of young students going into college with faith and coming out thinking faith is for the uneducated and ignorant.

Where can I find the resouces to undo or to help undo what’s been done?

My daughter’s boyfriend has morals and values, which seem to be contrary to atheism, but no longer believes in God after a few years in college.

He’s been given books, but that takes effort. Are there any good Internet videos that can help get the message accross?

And are there any tools that my daughter can use to help her “bring him back”? We are all praying and expecting and hoping that it won’t take too long.

He would make a great husband and father, but without faith, I don’t believe they could make it and I fear, my daughter would end up losing her faith.

It is easier to pull someone down than to pull someone up.
Thanks
 
bdeville said:
There seems to be much written and discussed about the problem of young students going into college with faith and coming out thinking faith is for the uneducated and ignorant.

Where can I find the resouces to undo or to help undo what’s been done?

My daughter’s boyfriend has morals and values, which seem to be contrary to atheism, but no longer believes in God after a few years in college.

He’s been given books, but that takes effort. Are there any good Internet videos that can help get the message accross?

And are there any tools that my daughter can use to help her “bring him back”? We are all praying and expecting and hoping that it won’t take too long.

He would make a great husband and father, but without faith, I don’t believe they could make it and I fear, my daughter would end up losing her faith.

It is easier to pull someone down than to pull someone up.
Thanks
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Hi and welcome to the forum. You might purchase
Search and Rescue by Patrick Madrid foreword by Scott Hahn
simple and good advice.He has other good books too.
 
I’d recommend Ask Me Anything, Ask Me Anything 2, and How to Stay Christian in College, all by J. Budziszewski.
 
bdeville said:
My daughter’s boyfriend has morals and values, which seem to be contrary to atheism, but no longer believes in God after a few years in college.
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A correction – morals and values are in no way contrary to atheism. Just about every atheist I know is a good person and has a strong relationship with his/her family.

We just don’t agree with one specific belief.

If you don’t mind a nonbeliever’s opinion, I would recommend not coming on too strongly to this young man, as you could end up pushing him further away. Instead, I think the best “argument” you could make is simply living the teachings of Christ and letting your actions speak for you.

You’re unlikely to convince him intellectually anyway, and you’ll probably be more successful (or at least not alienate him) if you don’t make him feel like you’re pressuring him to agree with you.
 
MegaTherion

I agree with MegaTherion to an extent … especially about raising issues with him, unless of course he brings them up, in which case we explain the faith, but explain it gently. But I would suggest something MagaTherion would never suggest: prayer. Pray that your daughter’s spirituality will infect her atheist boyfriend. I don’t doubt that he’s basically a good boy, as you say he has only recently lost his faith in college … where most brainy types often get too big for their britches. He will come back to the faith if his wisdom (or your daughter’s) overcomes his smarts.

If it’s true for MegaTherion that “Just about every atheist I know is a good person and has a strong relationship with his/her family,” I would say it’s mostly true because MegaTherion’s atheist friends are like your prospective son-in-law … people who have been raised in a faith and who will try to live as moral a life as they can while never rising to the love of God, which is to obey the first and greatest commandment.

Go into the prisons, where my wife and I go for our ministry. There you find mostly men and women who early in life abandoned God, or never even found God to begin with because their parents gave them no faith to sustain them. Generally speaking, as our society’s morals decline, anyone but an atheist can see that they decline in direct proportion with the rise of a godless society … reflected in the media, in politics, in entertainment, and certainly on the campus which today is a breeding ground for atheists because so many of our educators take every opportunity they can to mock and belittle religion.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
If it’s true for MegaTherion that “Just about every atheist I know is a good person and has a strong relationship with his/her family,” I would say it’s mostly true because MegaTherion’s atheist friends are like your prospective son-in-law … people who have been raised in a faith and who will try to live as moral a life as they can while never rising to the love of God, which is to obey the first and greatest commandment.
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I know atheists who were raised by religious parents and atheists raised in atheist households. A good upbringing is a good upbringing, and strong families are strong families, regardless of what they believe.

The son-in-law in this case is still the same good person he always was; he just now disagrees with the rest of you on one particular issue. All I’m saying is that you’ll probably have more sucess (or at the very least not alienate him) if you demonstrate an understanding of this fact.
Go into the prisons, where my wife and I go for our ministry.
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Statistically, the number of atheists in prison is much, much lower than the number of believers in prison. It’s hardly perfect data, and it doesn’t prove anything in and of itself, but it would at least appear that atheists commit crime at a lower rate than the rest of the general population.
 
Thanks for the resourses. I checked out J Budziszewski and I will purchase all of the books suggested. I also checked out his question and answer webpage and was very impressed. I noticed he’s been on EWTN, so that gives him much credibility with me. Although it doesn’t look like he is Catholic, I like his style of honesty, high values and straight forwardness with his answers.

I am not pushy with the faith, in fact he knows how much his rejection of the faith hurts those he loves and is sensitive to it, so I believe he will come back when he matures enough to know that he needs God and the faith of his parents.

I believe this is also an opportunity for my daughter to grow in her own faith. She knows the faith inside and out, but she needs now to apply it and live it in her heart the way she knows it in her head.

If anyone knows of any You Tube Videos that cover this, that would also be helpful because you know how much easier it is to get people to just click and watch a short video, rather than reading a book, although those books look easy enough since they are questions and answers.

I think I already have Search and Rescue. I have a whole library of just apologetics!

I am absolutely praying, and Mega Therion, I will pray for you as well because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists and choosing not to believe something doesn’t alter the truth. It’s called living in denial.
 
bdeville said:
There seems to be much written and discussed about the problem of young students going into college with faith and coming out thinking faith is for the uneducated and ignorant.

Where can I find the resouces to undo or to help undo what’s been done?

My daughter’s boyfriend has morals and values, which seem to be contrary to atheism, but no longer believes in God after a few years in college.

He’s been given books, but that takes effort. Are there any good Internet videos that can help get the message accross?
…
It is easier to pull someone down than to pull someone up.
Thanks
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Most of the time, college converts changed their mind due to (1) never having had solid intellectual reasons for their faith in the first place, (2) not actively seeking those reasons out during college on their own, and (3) drifting toward what everybody else seems to think.

Atheists with strong, critically thought-out reasons for their non-faith are as rare as Christians with strong, critically thought-out reasons for their faith. If your daughter’s boyfriend is one of the ignorant, sloganeering Dawkins-esque atheists, your best bet is to use what you already know, “It is easier to pull someone down than to pull someone up”, and have him question his (non)beliefs. Deconstruct that worldview! 🙂

If he has a good mind committed to atheism, then you’ll need to find an equally good mind capable of disarming the habits of thought, the “blinders” that prevent him from believing.
 
bdeville said:
Thanks for the resourses. I checked out J Budziszewski and I will purchase all of the books suggested. I also checked out his question and answer webpage and was very impressed. I noticed he’s been on EWTN, so that gives him much credibility with me. Although it doesn’t look like he is Catholic, I like his style of honesty, high values and straight forwardness with his answers.
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Although he is usually not explicitly Catholic in his writings, Budziszewski actually is Catholic, as of about two years ago.
👍
 
I went through the same thing in college–thinking I was just oh so smart and had figured everything out. But then I came to my senses.

I equated religion with anti-intellectualism, which, of course, was retarded of me.

So, if this is the case with this person, is it possible to surround him with intellectual Christian influence? If not in person, then I recommend some writers, specifically G.K. Chesterton (who will put anyone who thinks he has a good bead on things in his place) and Peter Kreeft (who will kick his butt philosophically up one side of his smug education and down the other).
 
MegaTherion

Statistically, the number of atheists in prison is much, much lower than the number of believers in prison. It’s hardly perfect data, and it doesn’t prove anything in and of itself, but it would at least appear that atheists commit crime at a lower rate than the rest of the general population.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

You have been influenced by statistics that do not accurately report the actual conditions inside any prison. Have you been in a prison? Hardly a tenth of the population of any prison attend chapel services or have dealings with chaplains. These people are a-theists … “without-God.” Many were baptized in a church when they were young or know their parents’ religion, so when asked, they answer accordingly. Statistics are then reported that do not accurately reflect the religious conviction of the prisoners. I put it to you that the vast majority of prisoners are atheists … they have lived openly ungodly lives and that is why they are in prison. That is common sense, but no doubt you will prefer the statistics that suggest Christians are really the killers, thieves, rapists of the world and atheists are “holier than thou.”
 
I agree with Numinous that Chesterton is the one to read. And especially because he lived and debated with the great atheists of his age: Bernard, Shaw, Bertrand Russell, H.G. Well, Clarence Darrow, etc.

Unfortunately, the secular establishment in the universities has made sure that his better essays on religion are never included in anthologies, if they are included at all.
 
A college student named Abby Nye wrote a book specifically about the problems faced by a Christian college student beginning studies at a secular campus. It’s called “Fish Out of Water.” It’s an easy read, from a student’s perspective, with practical advice. I’d recommend it to any college bound student.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
I put it to you that the vast majority of prisoners are atheists … they have lived openly ungodly lives and that is why they are in prison. That is common sense, but no doubt you will prefer the statistics that suggest Christians are really the killers, thieves, rapists of the world and atheists are “holier than thou.”
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In the first place, if you read my post carefully, you would see I did note that the statistic I referenced is “hardly perfect data, and it doesn’t prove anything in and of itself.”

In the second place, however, you’re making the rather ridiculous claim that the “vast majority of prisoners are atheists” – based on what? The small sample you’ve personally interacted with? Your limited dealing with a select population is not a valid way to come to accurate conclusions about a very large group of people. If the statistics I cited are, by my own admission, “hardly perfect,” your bald assertion and generalization is deeply flawed.

Incidentally, an atheist (under the definition most people use in conversation) means someone who doesn’t believe that gods exist; people are perfectly capable of being theists (believing that a god exists) and also believing that they have turned their backs on their god, let their god down, or “sinned” against him. The fact that most prisoners have done bad things and don’t go to church doesn’t make them atheists.

Of course, it’s impossible to determine whether someone “truly” believes, and a sudden conversion to Christianity does look good to a parole board, so I don’t put very much stock in those statistics at all.

Anyway, could we be getting any further off topic? Hope your family handles the situation well, bdeville, however it turns out.
 
In the second place, however, you’re making the rather ridiculous claim that the “vast majority of prisoners are atheists” – based on what?

Based on my own observations inside the prison system and also the opinions of prison chaplains I’ve worked with, people who are less deeply flawed in their close observations and reasoning than the statisticians you recklessly quote and then try to backtrack on.

Incidentally, an atheist (under the definition most people use in conversation) means someone who doesn’t believe that gods exist; people are perfectly capable of being theists (believing that a god exists) and also believing that they have turned their backs on their god, let their god down, or “sinned” against him.

Agreed. Most of these same people end up having some kind of association with the chaplain and attend chapel services (along with, as you say, some “atheists” who are only pretending to be Christian hoping it will help them with the parole board).

The fact that most prisoners have done bad things and don’t go to church doesn’t make them atheists.

This is where we get into a question of semantics. What does the word “atheist” mean? It means to be “without” God (a-theos). When you turn your back on God and enter a life of crime and wind up in prison, and then don’t want anything to do with the chaplain or with chapel (which is the the case with the vast amount of prisoners) it’s a fairly safe conclusion to draw that no matter what religion you were born into, you are no longer a member. You are “without God.”
 
Yes, this discussion about prisons is off track for the moment, yet it can be related to the question of the thread.

White collar crime is on the increase. In the business world (which many prepare for by going to college) there is an accelerating sense that an education without moral values is a very dangerous thing. But in academia there is hardly any effort to connect intellect with moral values because then you get close to the question of how it is possible to have ethics without God. Professors do not want to go there. The largely secular (atheist) mindset of college professors is to mock religion when they think they are sure of getting away with it.

This is not to say that everyone who goes to college is going to come out an atheist or a criminal, but it is easy to see why more and more are not coming out Christians. If business ethics continue to decline as they have, it is difficult to see why anyone would want to send their sons and daughters into such a world where they will be easy prey for the sharks … first on campus and later off.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
White collar crime is on the increase. In the business world (which many prepare for by going to college) there is an accelerating sense that an education without moral values is a very dangerous thing. But in academia there is hardly any effort to connect intellect with moral values because then you get close to the question of how it is possible to have ethics without God. Professors do not want to go there. The largely secular (atheist) mindset of college professors is to mock religion when they think they are sure of getting away with it.
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I would agree in regards to the issue of business ethics. As a business student I am glad that one of my professors (a retired member of the Motorola management team) insisted upon ethics in his discussions with my class.

He stated that integrity was vital as a businessman, and reflecting upon his teachings I would agree: no one lacking in integrity lasts in business; eventually a lack of integrity will result in one’s own demise.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
This is where we get into a question of semantics. What does the word “atheist” mean?
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It means to lack a belief in any gods. Theist means to have a belief in a god. If you believe in a god – even if you don’t worship that god or behave like a good person – you are a theist.

That’s how most people use the words. If you insist on using your own quirky definitions, then you won’t be able to convey your ideas to others.
 
MegaTherion

You don’t seem to be aware of a common distinction made in Catholic theology between theoretical atheism and practical atheism. Nor do you seem to be aware of the literal definition of the term “atheist” which is to be “without God.”

You can be without God in your head (theoretical atheism) or in your heart (practical atheism) or in both head and heart.

The practical atheists are the ones Jesus called hypocrites and told them to get away from him because he never knew them. That is, they were “without God” even though they stood in the synagogue and proclaimed him.

It’s not a quirky definition. You’re just stuck on one type of atheism.
 
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