Columbus Day Has Been A Federal Holiday Since 1934, Maine and Vermont have renamed "Indigenous People Day"

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If we celebrate Indigenous People’s Day, what are we celebrating? The fact that there were a variety of native tribes living in the America’s? Or some specific event?
 
Yes people from Ireland know about anti- Irish bigotry in their homeland but they have not been thrown into a culture that simply hated them. No you cannot know about the American Irish experience because you have not endured it. You can read about it but it not the same.
 
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Yes they entered the police force but it took a great deal of time to get there. The Irish landed here is 1840’s escaping a potato famine(starving) only to come to American which was in the midst of the beginning of a civil war. Combine that with adject poverty and sheer hatred. You can’t gloss over it.

Again your family did not have to endure it.

This holiday declaration for many Irish Americans gave hope and some pride in being Catholic.
 
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Yes you experienced An Gorta Nor but then you did not go on from that experience to the American Irish experience which was again truly horrific. American Irish experienced both of these events in succession. Somehow you seem to gloss over that. There was a national civil war approaching when the Irish landed. There was hatred.

If you look at map you will see that even though Columbus Day is a federal holiday, few southern protestants states ever celebrated it. It was a declared national specific catholic holiday, the only one.

from wikipedia

Many Italian-Americans observe Columbus Day as a celebration of their heritage, and the first such celebration was held in New York City on October 12, 1866.[13] The day was first enshrined as a legal holiday in the United States through the lobbying of Angelo Noce, a first generation Italian, in Denver.[14] The first statewide holiday was proclaimed by Colorado governor Jesse F. McDonald in 1905, and it was made a statutory holiday in 1907.[15][16] In April 1937, as a result of lobbying by the [Knights of Columbus](Knights of Columbus - Wikipedia) and New York City Italian leader Generoso Pope, Congress and President Franklin Delano Roosevelt proclaimed October 12 be a federal holiday under the name Columbus Day.[15][17][18][19]
 
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Are you aware of this. …
The Knights of Columbus , a 501(c)(8) nonprofit, was founded in New Haven, Connecticut, in 1882 to provide benefits and community for newly arrived Irish immigrants.
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Where did you get this idea. Again you do not know American Irish history. I am being kind here. What you are alluding to is only recently. Did you read about the fight to get this holiday, the battle for Catholics to get the holiday.

it was made a statutory holiday in 1907.[15][16] In April 1937, as a result of lobbying by the [Knights of Columbus] (Knights of Columbus - Wikipedia) and New York City Italian leader Generoso Pope, Congress and President Franklin Delano Roosevelt proclaimed October 12 be a federal holiday under the name Columbus Day.[15][17][18][19]
 
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All eight of my great-grandparents came from Ireland, and I also live in the Northeast, but I have a different perspective on Columbus in terms of his significance to people of Irish descent. …that is to say, no particular significance. I have never heard anyone in my large extended family speak of Columbus, and have myself never associated him with Irish-American heritage. My Grandfather O’Neill said that when Columbus Day was made a federal holiday in the 1930s, he believed it was FDR placating the Italian-American voting bloc. Of course, he also said that it was St. Brendan who discovered America and Lief Erikson merely followed his route 🙂 Honestly, it doesn’t trouble me whether the day is celebrated at all or what it’s called…I went to work today just like every other Monday.
 
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It was just to placate the Italian voting bloc. That was probably bigotry. The Italians had no such power. It was to placate the Italian and Irish voting block which was getting stronger.That is your take but for many Irish this holiday has great significance. The battle for it was great. My father belonged to the Hiberians.
 
Cathoholic said:
(from a Warren speech)

America has a “long and painful” history of mistreating Native Americans.​

. . . Columbus enslaved, colonized, mutilated, and massacred thousands of Indigenous People in the Americas. . . .
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Is it morally OK to murder people, steal their land, and not to make full restitution to the heirs of the victims? Is it morally OK to buy land that was stolen from people?
 
It is not about Columbus being Italian. It is about Catholic identity in a protestant nation. You simply do not know American Irish history.
 
Columbus did a lot for a older man in his 40’s who only lived 10 more years after first voyage probably considered a full life in 1500’s. He sailed back and forth how many times?

Four voyages between 1492 and 1502, seems like he’d have little time for anything at his age.
 
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Rhubarb . . .
The beginning of the article/presentation/whatever you want to call it discusses Columbus’ motives because we in the US (at least since the late 80s and early 90s when I was in grade school) tried to build Columbus up as some sort of scientist-explorer that wanted to prove to everyone that the world was round. I’m not sure if you recall the Looney Tunes Christopher Columbus episode - it began with Columbus arguing that the world was round, and everyone arguing back that the world was flat
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Actually what is flat here rhubarb is your argument.

First of all I never got my history from Loony Toons.

Take it up with Loony Toons if you want.

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. . . and everyone arguing back that the world was flat. Which is why he went off on his voyage
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This is not applicable.
At least in my education.

I was taught that Columbus was seeking a new way to get to the East.

Common sense tells you that you don’t “sail underneath” whatever flat model Loony Toons informed you of.

I have read some of Columbus’ logs (translations) directly and the article you cited is warped.

I’m not saying it’s as bad as your Loony Toons citation, and I am not positing Columbus as a Saint either.

All that I am saying is, your citations are only part of the story.
That isn’t true. Columbus wanted to get rich.
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So what?

Is that some sort of new sin?

I don’t see the problem with wanting to immigrate or visit to get rich.

I don’t have an issue with foreign people who want to come to America and get rich either.

My issue is coming here illegally.
 
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Yes I do. Please stop repeating that strawman. By the early 1900’s the Irish had significant voting power in many areas and concerns about their appropriation of such power and how it was being handled at a local level in some cities were common themes in the media. How far that reflected institution bias towards the Irish and ingrained prejudices is a matter of debate of course.
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It is not a strawman. Sorry you cannot read about Irish American history from a distance and then proceed to tell them how it was. You do not realize the fight for this holiday was a long hard battle which they finally won.
 
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AINg . . .
Is it morally OK to murder people, steal their land, and not to make full restitution to the heirs of the victims? Is it morally OK to buy land that was stolen from people?
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No (except for your “full restitution to the heirs” portion which I disagree with due to the impossibility of your false premise here).

Why would you even ask that?

I purposefully included that unflattering portion in my quote citation to preemptively acknowledge Columbus was not a Saint here we are talking about.

So my question remains.

Why ask the question here directed at me given my own quote from the article that I posted?

(Certainly you don’t think I am going to defend that kind of thing do you? I’m not silent on it either – as evidenced by my post and now again by my reply.)

Please clarify.
 
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Columbus wanted to get rich.
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Was an earlier post point here used in a context of there being something wrong or sinful with wanting to “get rich”.

I don’t think this is true for anybody here, but I think there are those out there (in regular society), that have this attitude due to their own sin of envy and maybe also their own sloth.

(If they want riches so bad, go out and get rich yourself. Instead of castigating others for being wealthy or even running them down for merely WANTING to be wealthy).

The problem with this attitude being so common (especially among the Fabian Socialists in Congress who do things like exempt themselves from ObamaCare yet use Government FORCE, to foist it upon others), is . . .

. . . With these ideas being bantered about in society, it is easy to pick up bits and pieces of it in our own minds. I’m at risk for picking up this socialistic thinking too!

So unless we are careful, we can interiorize this envious and slothful anti-spirituality.

Beware.
 
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And this is among the reasons why your posts always strike me as made in bad faith. You take one side fact without mentioning any of the substance or the context.

First off. You were the one who mentioned The Oatmeal’s focus on financial gain. (It wasn’t the focus). I mentioned that bit was discussed to combat common myths about Columbus’ motivations. That was why I brought up the cartoon. Because that was the whitewashed history of Columbus that kids got prior to college level studies in our country. If you got better than that in your primary and secondary education - good for you. But that wasn’t the case in the US through the decades. I -am- a history teacher. We are taught how history was studied in the past. And if you don’t like The Oatmeal’s citations of Columbus’ writings, I’ve cited his journals directly too.

Secondly, no. Financial gain sn’t a sin. But it isn’t heroic either. Though I would say the way Columbus settled on gaining wealth was quite sinful.

Thirdly, I -hope- you would have a problem with people coming to the US in the manner that Columbus came to Hispaniola. I would be curious if you consider the Spaniard’s colonialism as illegal entry into those “countries” though.
 
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Cathoholic said:
Why would you even ask that?
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Because:
Today is Columbus day.
Many American Indians were killed and their families murdered by white Europeans.
Stealing is morally wrong,.
Their land was stolen from them.
Is their an obligation not to buy and sell stolen property? Or is it perfectly OK?
If you steal a million dollars from your neighbor and he dies should you make restitution to his heirs or just forget about it?
Cathoholic said:
Why ask the question here directed at me
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It was just a general question for anyone.
 
Rhubarb . . .
And this is among the reasons why your posts always strike me as made in bad faith.
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Quit focusing on me and deal with the issues. You impugning my motives is NOT the topic.

Rhubarb . . .
Though I would say the way Columbus settled on gaining wealth was quite sinful.
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But I never defended those ways. (I will defend the dimension of his being concerned for their souls and wanting to bring Christ into their lives).

This was a straw man.

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Rhubarb . . .
Secondly, no. Financial gain sn’t a sin. But it isn’t heroic either.
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And that might be a reasonable point if that was the ONLY reason for Columbus’ explorations.

There were mixed motives.

Some of them good. Some of them not so good.

Your article brought up NO redeeming value to Columbus or to the Europen immigrants.

Instead the article projects its own anti-immigrant hate and dresses it up as moral.

.

Rhubarb . . .
Thirdly, I -hope- you would have a problem with people coming to the US in the manner that Columbus came to Hispaniola. I would be curious if you consider the Spaniard’s colonialism as illegal entry into those “countries” though.
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This is a false dichotomy and I am not going to fall for it.

And if “illegal immigrants” were coming into America to evangelize Jesus Christ to us, that takes precedence.

Just like I am OK with going into the Amazon Rain forests to bring Jesus Christ to the people there. And elsewhere.
 
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