Commandments

[adrift]

God commanded Abraham to keep the 10 commandments…(Gen 26:5) Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws…

No where are these commandments said to be the 10 commandments. The first mention of the ten commandment or more accurately the ten words is to Moses.

The word " my laws", is referred to as the Decalogue,. The Decalogue is the 10 commandments. If you take a look at the in this verse for the Greek word for " commandments" and the word for “laws” have different meanings.

That does not change the fact that the ten words were given to Moses. Show me scripture that states that Abraham commandments are the same that was given to Moses.

What is sin? (1Jn 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
AND…(Rom 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Therefore, one has to know the law ( 10 commandments) , to know that he is committing a sin.

What translation are you using?
I have this

Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

I looked at several translations and they all said the same. It isn’t referring to the Law but the lack of law.
One more question what commandment did Adam and Eve break?

Do you find Abraham keeping Sabbath?". In Gen.26:5, God states that Abraham did obey His voice and keep the commandments, statutes and laws

So I assume that the answer is you do not have scripture that specifically says Abraham kept the sabbath. To use the scripture you must first establish that the commandments are the same. You haven’t done that. If the Commandments were already in place why did God give him the tablets? It doesn’t make sense.

 

[BTTG]

You stated -

the law is known by nature. All you have to do is look at civilizations that do not have knowledge of the ten commandments. All of the commandments can be determined by for a lack of a better word nature. The one’s that you can’t are the first three. Now we number them differently so i refer to the way Catholics number them.

**I replied **-Sorry about the use of quotes.

Do you think the following laws ( 10 commandments) are known " by nature"… shall not covet ( house, wife, etc.), also, commit adultery, shall not bear false witness ?

**You stated **-

i wasn’t clear. Nowhere until the commandments is man told to keep it holy. Show me where anyone in scripture does until the ten commandments .

**I replied **- I am not sure what to say. I may not be explaining myself correctly. In Gen. 2:3, God said that He blessed and sanctified ( made it holy) the seventh day, which is the Sabbath day. The same seventh day/Sabbath day as we have today. There was no need for God to bless and make this day holy for Himself. This day was blessed and made holy for man to honor God. Why would God make a seventh day/ Sabbath day blessed and holy in the first 7 days of the earth, but not have man honor this day as part of His creation, as a blessed day and holy day until 2,500 years later when Moses received them on tablets of stone.

**You stated **-

yes Moses was honoring the sabbath but name someone before the law giver who does.

Abraham

You stated -

the verse says that Abraham kept God’s laws and commandments. That would indicate two different things. The Decalogue was not given until Moses otherwise his ascending to the mountain and leaving the people make no sense. If they already had the commandments, why would they

**I replied **- Do some research on Gen. 26:5 and you will read that “my laws” are the Decalogue and the “commandments” are other commands that God gave to Abraham.

About God giving to Moses the 10 commandments on the two tablets. If the 10 commandments were not in effect, or not known to the people, until Moses received them, does that mean that people did not know the true God?
The 10 commandments were given to Moses at this time for Israel was now to be taken into a close and peculiar relation to the Most High–to be incorporated as a nation under the government of God. The message to Moses for the people was:

“Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles’ wings, and brought you unto Myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine: and ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.”

It was no longer a person such as Abraham, or Noah that was God’s chosen “person” to lead His people, at the time that Moses received the commandments it was now going to be the nation Israel.

**I stated , ** Did you know that the “name”, or “character” of God is the 10 commandments that were presented to Moses?

You replied- I don’t know what you mean.

I will answer this in another post

written in love

Your post was very hard to read since you didn’t use the quote feature.

 

[BTTG]

I did find it in the post I quoted to you. :yup: I guess it seemed strange since it was plucked from a much larger portion of the catachism.

No problem

 

[BTTG]

Craig - you keep repeating the same claim over and over - I’ve refuted your understanding of this passage. The commandments Abraham kept were the ones scripture shows us God gave him. To leave his people and venture to the land of Canaan; to trust in Him and his promises; to offer his son Isaac, etc. There is not suggestion in scripture or otherwise that the Sabbath commandment was given to Abraham or anyone else prior to being given to Moses at Mt. Sinai.

Do you think Abraham also kept the dietary laws (also not given to the jews until Mt Sinai)?

Blessings,

Brian

Hi Brian

What are the " commandments" and what are " my laws" in Gen.26:5?

Also what is sin?

 

[diggerdomer]

God commanded Abraham to keep the 10 commandments…(Gen 26:5)

No, God did not command Abraham to keep the 10 commandments. Read the Scripture. That is your interpretation of Genesis. Genesis 26:5 says nothing about “the 10 commandments” (i.e. the ones given to Moses and the chosen people much later) but rather only says “my commandments” meaning God’s commandments. In Genesis, God simply says to keep God’s commands (instruction, law, etc.). No mention of THE 10 commandments. Right?

Do you find Abraham keeping Sabbath?". In Gen.26:5, God states that Abraham did obey His voice and keep the commandments, statutes and laws.

No, Abraham never kept the Sabbath, according to the witness of Scripture.

 

[Splinker]

Do you think Abraham also kept the dietary laws (also not given to the jews until Mt Sinai)?

Blessings,

Brian

I don’t believe he did. If I recall correctly, when the strangers visit Abraham in his tent, prior to destroying Soddom, he has a feast prepared that consist of milk and meat, which would have been against the dietary laws that his descendants later receive.

 

[adrift]

Craig - you keep repeating the same claim over and over - I’ve refuted your understanding of this passage. The commandments Abraham kept were the ones scripture shows us God gave him. To leave his people and venture to the land of Canaan; to trust in Him and his promises; to offer his son Isaac, etc. There is not suggestion in scripture or otherwise that the Sabbath commandment was given to Abraham or anyone else prior to being given to Moses at Mt. Sinai.

Do you think Abraham also kept the dietary laws (also not given to the jews until Mt Sinai)?

Blessings,

Brian

No, God did not command Abraham to keep the 10 commandments. Read the Scripture. That is your interpretation of Genesis. Genesis 26:5 says nothing about “the 10 commandments” (i.e. the ones given to Moses and the chosen people much later) but rather only says “my commandments” meaning God’s commandments. In Genesis, God simply says to keep God’s commands (instruction, law, etc.). No mention of THE 10 commandments. Right?

No, Abraham never kept the Sabbath, according to the witness of Scripture.

I am still curious to know what Commandment Adam broke.

 

[Robbinson]

I am still curious to know what Commandment Adam broke.

Wouldn’t that be the “commandment” of God to Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? It was breaking that commandment which was the first “sin” - violating a “commandment” of God, and the source of that sin was arguably “pride”, a belief that man could become like God (knowing right from wrong).

I do believe that the “moral law” (which is captured in essence by the decalogue) has always been a law written into our conscience - and yet it has been masked by our sin.

But the Sabbath as a commandment was for Israel and not given until Sinai.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[BTTG]

No, God did not command Abraham to keep the 10 commandments. Read the Scripture. That is your interpretation of Genesis. Genesis 26:5 says nothing about “the 10 commandments” (i.e. the ones given to Moses and the chosen people much later) but rather only says “my commandments” meaning God’s commandments. In Genesis, God simply says to keep God’s commands (instruction, law, etc.). No mention of THE 10 commandments. Right?

No, Abraham never kept the Sabbath, according to the witness of Scripture.

What a great topic!! We are getting somewhere.

I ask all, in Gen. why did God say to Abraham that he did obey " the commandments" and
" my laws".

What is " the commandments" and what is " my laws". I provided my explanation.

 

[BTTG]

Wouldn’t that be the “commandment” of God to Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? It was breaking that commandment which was the first “sin” - violating a “commandment” of God, and the source of that sin was arguably “pride”, a belief that man could become like God (knowing right from wrong).

I do believe that the “moral law” (which is captured in essence by the decalogue) has always been a law written into our conscience - and yet it has been masked by our sin.

But the Sabbath as a commandment was for Israel and not given until Sinai.

Blessings,

Brian

Hi Brian

Adam did commit a sin. What is sin?

Interesting to note… what letter is in the middle of “sin” and “pride”? The letter " I". All ten commandments can and are broken by pride. It is our carnal nature, that “I” can do what “I” want.Where in the bible does it say that " a law written into our conscience".

Adam committed the sin of …(Exo 20:3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Satan/the serpent, wants to be god, thinks that he is God. Adam looked at the serpent as a god and disobeyed the true God.

Man was created in the image of God… to be perfect. I will be posting a thought on the “Character of God”, which will provide why Adam and all man since are to obey all 10 commandments of God.

 

[BTTG]

I am still curious to know what Commandment Adam broke.

First commandment

 

[BTTG]

Why would the Catholic Catechism, in making reference to Sunday worship, state that
" we gather on the day of the sun" ?

Thank you

 

[Robbinson]

Why would the Catholic Catechism, in making reference to Sunday worship, state that
" we gather on the day of the sun" ?

Thank you

why not - sunday was known as the “day of the sun” - you know why we meet on sunday - because the apostles did and the disciples and the earliest christians (hundreds of years before constantine) for fellowship, worship and to commemurate the resurrection.

We’ve discussed this before as wel

 

[BTTG]

Many people posting are saying that the 10 commandments were not in affect until Moses received them on Mount Sinai. That the 10 commandments did not start until Moses came down from the mountain. However, we read the story of the manna and that the Sabbath day was obeyed before Moses received the 10 commandments. We also read in Gen. that God forbid murder and adultery.

written with love

 

[Robbinson]

Many people posting are saying that the 10 commandments were not in affect until Moses received them on Mount Sinai. That the 10 commandments did not start until Moses came down from the mountain. However, we read the story of the manna and that the Sabbath day was obeyed before Moses received the 10 commandments. We also read in Gen. that God forbid murder and adultery.

written with love

Craig - actually, if the sabbath were a commandment in the wilderness, God would not have had to comman the Israelites not to gather manna on the Sabbath (that would have been a violation of the Sabbath commandment). Rather, this was a forshadowing of the Sabbath commandment ultimately issued to Moses and Israel.

Re: murder - adultery - there has always been a “moral law” written into the conscience of men - that was, however, hidden in part by sin. This is why gentiles, who never had the law of moses, still had a “moral law” of conduct to which they were accountable. The balance of the mosaic law (including the Sabbath) was given to Israel.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[ccross]

Hi everyone just wanted to post my site. Read it and you will understand.

www.ccross.org

 

[BTTG]

why not - sunday was known as the “day of the sun” - you know why we meet on sunday - because the apostles did and the disciples and the earliest christians (hundreds of years before constantine) for fellowship, worship and to commemurate the resurrection.

We’ve discussed this before as wel

Hi Brian

The “day of the sun” … I am sure you know about Paganism and the day of the sun.

What are your thoughts on the following:

POLYCRATES, BISHOP OF EPHESUS.

[A.D. 130-196.] This author comes in as an appendix to the stories of Polycarp and Irenaeus and good Anicetus, and his writings also bear upon the contrast presented by the less creditable history of Victor. If, as I suppose, the appearance of our Lord to St. John on “the Lord’s day” was on the Paschal Sunday, it may at first seem surprising that this Apostle can be claimed by Polycrates in behalf of the Eastern custom to keep Easter {actually they kept Passover, not Easter-COGwriter}, with the Jews, on the fourteenth day of the moon. But to the Jews the Apostles became “as Jews” in all things tolerable, so long as the Temple stood, and while the bishops of Jerusalem were labouring to identify the Paschal Lamb with their Passover. The long survival of St. John among Jewish Christians led them to prolong this usage, no doubt, as sanctioned by his example. He foreknew it would quietly pass away. The wise and truly Christian spirit of Irenaeus prepared the way for the ultimate unanimity of the Church in a matter which lies at the base of “the Christian Sabbath,” and of our own observance of the first day of the week as a weekly Easter. Those who in our own times have revived the observance of the Jewish Sabbath, show us how much may be said on their side, and elucidate the tenacity of the Easterns in resisting the abolition of the Mosaic ordinance as to the Paschal, although they agreed to keep it “not with the old leaven.” Our author belonged to a family in which he was the eighth Christian bishop; and he presided over the church of Ephesus, in which the traditions of St. John were yet fresh in men’s minds at the date of his birth. He had doubtless known Polycarp, and Irenaeus also. He seems to have presided over a synod of Asiatic bishops (A.D. 196) which came together to consider this matter of the Paschal feast. It is surely noteworthy that nobody doubted that it was kept by a Christian and Apostolic ordinance. So St. Paul argues from its Christian observance, in his rebuke of the Corinthians. They were keeping it “unleavened” ceremonially, and he urges a spiritual unleavening as more important. The Christian hallowing of Pentecost connects with the Paschal argument. The Christian Sabbath hinges on these points" (Polycrates, Bishop of Ephesus. Translated by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson. Excerpted from The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, editors); American Edition copyright © 1885. Copyright © 2001 Peter Kirby).

This is utterly astounding! Roberts and Donaldson seem to be admitting that it took Irenaeus, who wrote about 140+ years after Jesus died, to “prepared the way” for what became the Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant acceptance of Sunday (which also was accepted by the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses).

Roberts and Donaldson essentially seem to be saying that unless John somehow foreknew that Irenaeus would pave the way to keep Sunday, that Polycrates letter could be considered as further evidence that the Sabbath, not Sunday should be observed. The simple fact is that John did keep the Passover on the 14th of Nisan (and John obviously knew when Christ kept it as he wrote about it in John 13:1).

 

[BTTG]

What a great topic!! We are getting somewhere.

I ask all, in Gen. why did God say to Abraham that he did obey " the commandments" and
" my laws".

What is " the commandments" and what is " my laws". I provided my explanation.

Hey Brian

Can you explain the above question that I provided?

Thank you

 

[adrift]

First commandment

Nope

 

[BTTG]

Nope

why not? Adam and Eve did not listen to what God had commanded. Adam and Eve listen to the serpent as the serpent thought he was God in which he said “you will surely not die”. The serpent is acting as a god. Adam and Eve sinned and broke the 1st commandment - Adam and Eve did not receive God… John 1:11.