M
Maxirad
Guest
The concept of “Medicare for all” isn’t intrinsically evil, is it?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Commentary: "Coronavirus shows again why 'Medicare for all' is a bad idea"
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
B
BenjaminJ
Guest
People argue that canada has medicare for all and pays 1/ 4 the amount the US does for health care. They somehow forget to mention that canadas population is 33 million. The US population is 340 million.
N
Neithan
Guest
And we don’t have a federal healthcare system. Each of the provinces is responsible for its own.
It’s not unreasonable for each state to have single-payer basic healthcare. Or at least for those states that want it. You also don’t have to eliminate private insurance for extended healthcare or pharmacare.
It’s not unreasonable for each state to have single-payer basic healthcare. Or at least for those states that want it. You also don’t have to eliminate private insurance for extended healthcare or pharmacare.
Last edited:
J
JerryZ
Guest
Well, then get ready to die if you are elderly like they are telling the old in Italy.
They know the healthcare system cannot possibly cope with the crisis AND as one astute reporter pointed out Italy has about 3 time more beds capacity per capita than the US.
So it isn’t that they do not have enough hospitals there.
Resources are squandered when there is no accountability and governments are the worst, the only thing that grows with them are bureaucracies, like a cancer, multiplying taking more and more of the sap of society until it stifles it.
Peace!
They know the healthcare system cannot possibly cope with the crisis AND as one astute reporter pointed out Italy has about 3 time more beds capacity per capita than the US.
So it isn’t that they do not have enough hospitals there.
Resources are squandered when there is no accountability and governments are the worst, the only thing that grows with them are bureaucracies, like a cancer, multiplying taking more and more of the sap of society until it stifles it.
Peace!
W
Wesrock
Guest
The argument is they pay less per person, not less total.People argue that canada has medicare for all and pays 1/ 4 the amount the US does for health care. They somehow forget to mention that canadas population is 33 million. The US population is 340 million.
W
Wesrock
Guest
Anyway, the point of Medicare For All is financial security and peace of mind. Knowing that a hospital visit or a test won’t set you back hundreds or thousands of dollars (even when you are insured due to high deductibles and coinsurance responsibilities) and bankrupt you, knowing that your financial situation doesn’t keep you from getting the necessary medical care you need because you’re avoiding the bills. Knowing that most families and seniors would pay less in taxes than it takes to privately insure them. You can go to a physician or hospital as needed and not have to pay anything out of pocket because the insurance is publicly funded and has no copays or deductibles. Honestly, Sanders isn’t selling M4A as he should be: a pro family policy.
Countries with single payer systems still have private health care facilities and doctors.
Many people in other parts of the world look at the USA’s health care system and wonder why we’re operating like a third world country, they see our system as a "heck"scape they’d be horrified to live under. Universities in Europe with students studying abroad in the USA are telling students to come home due to what they say is the USA’s poor health care infrastructure. Beds in Italy aren’t being overwhelmed because of their health care system, they’re being overwhelmed because of the number of people seriously infected, a situation which could happen in the USA. We’re “lucky” in the sense that it spread elsewhere first so our eyes could be opened before it overwhelmed us here. Hopefully we can bend the curve of peak infections with self quarantines and self distancing.
Countries with single payer systems still have private health care facilities and doctors.
Many people in other parts of the world look at the USA’s health care system and wonder why we’re operating like a third world country, they see our system as a "heck"scape they’d be horrified to live under. Universities in Europe with students studying abroad in the USA are telling students to come home due to what they say is the USA’s poor health care infrastructure. Beds in Italy aren’t being overwhelmed because of their health care system, they’re being overwhelmed because of the number of people seriously infected, a situation which could happen in the USA. We’re “lucky” in the sense that it spread elsewhere first so our eyes could be opened before it overwhelmed us here. Hopefully we can bend the curve of peak infections with self quarantines and self distancing.
Last edited:
N
Neithan
Guest
Yeah I don’t get the average American’s middle-class opposition to basic universal healthcare. It’s strange and I guess can result from some sort of partisan loyalty over generations and a result of feeling forced to support Republican policies because they’re pro-life (at least, prima facie).
Seriously the U.S. desperately needs a viable Independent candidate. Since they’re proud of their Independence I’m a bit surprised it hasn’t happened yet. The bipartisan duopoly is anti-competitive, to say the least.
Seriously the U.S. desperately needs a viable Independent candidate. Since they’re proud of their Independence I’m a bit surprised it hasn’t happened yet. The bipartisan duopoly is anti-competitive, to say the least.
Last edited:
S
steph03
Guest
The US resistance to universal healthcare blows my mind. But hey, whatever makes you happy. Each country runs the way they want to run.
Last edited:
The worst comment I read there.
So, according to you, old peole die in Italy from coronavirus because the health care is state-funded?
Really? No of course!
I don’t know well the Italian health system, but is of course more social tha in US.
The fact: Italy has a deep demograhical concentration. They have also one of the oldest population in the world. Two factors that contribute to te spread of virus.
They also probably wait too long before putting the good measures of confinement etc in place.
They have 2,6 beds for 100 000 inhabitnts in resuscitation lots, whereas Germany it is 6. Surely all europeans countries should extended their capacity in cases of extraordinary crisis.
The epidemy is so high in the Northern Italy that they don’t have enough medical means to treat evevrybody. And foreigh countries probably failed to give them medical material.
That’s why sady some old people died by lack of care.
What do you think what would happened in a country with only private health care? The people with good health inssurance would be cared, the other without inassurance or state help would be left to die…Is that better?
So, according to you, old peole die in Italy from coronavirus because the health care is state-funded?
Really? No of course!
I don’t know well the Italian health system, but is of course more social tha in US.
The fact: Italy has a deep demograhical concentration. They have also one of the oldest population in the world. Two factors that contribute to te spread of virus.
They also probably wait too long before putting the good measures of confinement etc in place.
They have 2,6 beds for 100 000 inhabitnts in resuscitation lots, whereas Germany it is 6. Surely all europeans countries should extended their capacity in cases of extraordinary crisis.
The epidemy is so high in the Northern Italy that they don’t have enough medical means to treat evevrybody. And foreigh countries probably failed to give them medical material.
That’s why sady some old people died by lack of care.
What do you think what would happened in a country with only private health care? The people with good health inssurance would be cared, the other without inassurance or state help would be left to die…Is that better?
N
Neithan
Guest
That is impressive. How are the Germans so efficient? Their case fatality rate right now is 0.2% and they also have an old population.whereas Germany it is 6.
Last edited:
F
Freddy
Guest
Those figures (ten times the population) tie in nicely with a comparison of the size of economies. The US’s is ten times bigger that Canada’s. So all things being equal…People argue that canada has medicare for all and pays 1/ 4 the amount the US does for health care. They somehow forget to mention that canadas population is 33 million. The US population is 340 million.
I don’t know the german system. But my guess is that they make health care or intensive health care a priority (and maybe their history play a role?)
It is also a well developped country economically speaking.
I find the numbers here.
I wil be cautious with the letality rate. A rate from what population? Hospitalized one, general population? Ill one? because all people are not tested and the rate of people who are vary a lot from a country to another.
It is also a well developped country economically speaking.
I find the numbers here.
Maye because of their good health care, the preventive measures and the fact the pandemic is still lower than in Italy?Their case fatality rate right now is 0.2% and they also have an old population.
I wil be cautious with the letality rate. A rate from what population? Hospitalized one, general population? Ill one? because all people are not tested and the rate of people who are vary a lot from a country to another.
Last edited:
B
BenjaminJ
Guest
Italy has already stated that they cant cremate bodies fast enoughto keep up with death rate. Yeah socialzed health care!
Last edited:
F
Freddy
Guest
Here’s a great idea. Free health care…but only to those who want it. You can opt out, Ben.Italy has already stated that they cant cremate bodies fast enoughto keep up with death rate. Yeah socialzed health care!
B
BenjaminJ
Guest
Heres an idea. Go take an economics class. No such thing as free health care
0
0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
I think it stems from the anxiety over what would be considered “basic” healthcare, how much the government would get to control us, and that fact that we are so very divided in our values.Yeah I don’t get the average American’s middle-class opposition to basic universal healthcare.
One person might think abortion is a basic right, but another person finds it despicable, for instance. Who gets the final say?
I think if it just covered things like maternity and blood pressure pills and diabetic care, most people wouldn’t have a big problem with it.
Pray that the pandemic would not reach the US as the level of Italy, because we know what would happened. A lot of people would die because of lack of health care, or if they don’t, some would receive expensive expense reports to pay after lefting the hospital…
I lived in France, where we have one the best health care in the world (even if yes it has deteriorated since the recent years) and one of the most socialized in the world.
We have it since 1945, and guess what we don’t have still bankrupt yet. heavy debt yes.
And NO we don’t usually wait for a year for a simple surgery. My husband had shedule one in a span of a few week. Coronavirus excluded of course.
There is some appointment where you wait for a year, such as to controlled your eyes/vision. But they are due to a lack of physicians not state health care!
And NO neither in France or Italy we don’t choose who will lives and died. we don’t have euthanasy or assisted suicides in our countries. What sadly and criminally happened in Italy is a due to the epidemic with maybe a lack of anticipation and the possibility to extended their capacity of taking charge of patients in extraordinary circunstances. We can and should be better of course but not in deprived people from health care.
And thank you, I am mentally sane.
I lived in France, where we have one the best health care in the world (even if yes it has deteriorated since the recent years) and one of the most socialized in the world.
We have it since 1945, and guess what we don’t have still bankrupt yet. heavy debt yes.
And NO we don’t usually wait for a year for a simple surgery. My husband had shedule one in a span of a few week. Coronavirus excluded of course.
There is some appointment where you wait for a year, such as to controlled your eyes/vision. But they are due to a lack of physicians not state health care!
And NO neither in France or Italy we don’t choose who will lives and died. we don’t have euthanasy or assisted suicides in our countries. What sadly and criminally happened in Italy is a due to the epidemic with maybe a lack of anticipation and the possibility to extended their capacity of taking charge of patients in extraordinary circunstances. We can and should be better of course but not in deprived people from health care.
And thank you, I am mentally sane.
of course, free health care don’t exist. Someone or something has to pay.Heres an idea. Go take an economics class. No such thing as free health care
But universal health care exist, and should exist. It is the more just system to allowed all people to have access to health care and not die. If you don’t agree the other solution is to offer affordable health care to everyone (with affordable private assurance where the quality of coverage is controlled by the State and the consummers) and to pay for health coverage people who cannot pay for it.
Last edited:
To compare with venezuela that is a country in crisis is dishonest. same as Italy who is also in crisis and avery aged one (that impacts the quality of health care obviously).
So some Canadians come to US for simple operations. And so what? that’s their right. maybe it is because the hospitals in the US they come have shorter waiting list because operations are o expensive that many people avoid them or have them the last possible they can. High costs is a good way to prevent clients from coming.
So some Canadians come to US for simple operations. And so what? that’s their right. maybe it is because the hospitals in the US they come have shorter waiting list because operations are o expensive that many people avoid them or have them the last possible they can. High costs is a good way to prevent clients from coming.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.