Commissioner Keith Towler: Smacking 'doesn't work'

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Mr Towler, who is appointed as an advocate to speak up for young people on issues concerning them, said: "Children are the only people in the UK who can be hit without consequence.

“Children should be entitled to the same level of protection as adults. There’s no such thing as a safe smack.”

He said disciplining children through physical punishment was not effective, and that in some cases it can do physical and emotional harm.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-15369239
 
LemonAndLime said:
Mr Towler, who is appointed as an advocate to speak up for young people on issues concerning them, said: "Children are the only people in the UK who can be hit without consequence.

“Children should be entitled to the same level of protection as adults. There’s no such thing as a safe smack.”

He said disciplining children through physical punishment was not effective, and that in some cases it can do physical and emotional harm.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-15369239
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It’s not effective? He should have a talk with my father…you want to see a couple kids straighten up, dad threatening to get his belt usually did the trick and if it didn’t using the belt almost always did.
 
LemonAndLime said:
Mr Towler, who is appointed as an advocate to speak up for young people on issues concerning them, said: "Children are the only people in the UK who can be hit without consequence.

“Children should be entitled to the same level of protection as adults. There’s no such thing as a safe smack.”

He said disciplining children through physical punishment was not effective, and that in some cases it can do physical and emotional harm.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-15369239
Click to expand...
Ya, the world’s most prominent voice on the topic of non-physical discipline, Dr. Benjamin Spock, was the one who ushered in the era of permissive parenting to the parents of the baby-boomers. They are the ones who began to think that life had no consequences and in turn taugh that to their kids. The result…Occupy Wall Street. The children of the baby boomers and the result of the baby boomers paradigm of life without limits.
 
Probably doesn’t do much for the kids but it seems to make many parents feel better.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
It’s not effective? He should have a talk with my father…you want to see a couple kids straighten up, dad threatening to get his belt usually did the trick and if it didn’t using the belt almost always did.
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I’m a believer in this as well. From what I’ve seen of children and teenagers and even twenty-somethings who were raised in a non-disciplined, “child-guided” way that is limited solely to “positive reinforcement” (which, when not countered with negative reinforcement, are merely bribes) are generally not the best of people, and are what would have been called spoiled brats.

It would seem that the lack of discipline would lead to more mental issues later in life, and experience would seem to bear this out. Even thinking on it, a child who is only “positively reinforced” might grow up to expect to be paid or bribed for every action of common decency, let alone more; believe from an early age that he is the best (from parents always praising their children without ever scolding, leading the child to even subconsciously believe that he can do no wrong), and instill either a perfectionism or a self-defeating complex in the child when he learns that he is not; an inability to cope with failure, and so forth.

Solomon tells us:
“He who spares the rod hates his son: but he that loves him corrects him…” (Prv 13:24) and “Do not withhold correction from your child. If you strike him with the rod, he shall not die. You shall beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from Sheol.” (Prv 23:14)

The “beating” may be a bit far, but it seems to me that in societies with lax discipline of children (such as modern America) children have more issues: depression, bipolar disorder, borderline personality, narcissism, anger management problems, less respect for parents, more bullying, lower rates of academic success, more “acting out”, more drug addiction, promiscuity, so on. Such conditions are not nearly as endemic a problem in societies that have a more traditional approach to child-discipline. Corporal punishment seems to be a necessary evil, until God so decrees that children are born with an inbuilt and fully-formed decision-making apparatus and moral compass.

A toddler or young child can not be spoken to and made to understand like an adult, as his rational faculties are not developed, and, I imagine, he will view the punishment as “light”, or “bearable”, and, if the consequence does not outweigh the benefit of the bad behavior, there is no reason not to repeat it: a child does not have the mind nor moral faculties of an adult, and the higher moral functions need to be instilled as the child is formed. Not even do “legal adults” have fully instantiated rational/decision-making faculties, at least until 25 years of age.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Ya, the world’s most prominent voice on the topic of non-physical discipline, Dr. Benjamin Spock, was the one who ushered in the era of permissive parenting to the parents of the baby-boomers.
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Even Spock admitted his method of parenting is wrong. Perhaps the fact his grandson (raised on the “Spock Method”) killed himself at age 22 might at least give people cause to question if he knew everything he claimed he did.
 
iamrefreshed said:
Normal parents who discipline with a smack feel 10x’s worse about it than the child does.
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There comes a time when time-out, counting to 10, sitting in the corner, being sent to your room, getting a lecture, writing a paper, etc… just doesn’t work and a good smack on the fanny with a sturdy belt conveys the message that you mean business.

I was spanked by my parents as a kid. I understand limits, boundaries, and consequences.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
There comes a time when time-out, counting to 10, sitting in the corner, being sent to your room, getting a lecture, writing a paper, etc… just doesn’t work and a good smack on the fanny with a sturdy belt conveys the message that you mean business.

I was spanked by my parents as a kid. I understand limits, boundaries, and consequences.
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I was beaten as a child. It wasn’t discipline as much as it was just something wrong with my father. Even with that, I believe there may come a time when a spanking is necessary.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
There comes a time when time-out, counting to 10, sitting in the corner, being sent to your room, getting a lecture, writing a paper, etc… just doesn’t work and a good smack on the fanny with a sturdy belt conveys the message that you mean business.

I was spanked by my parents as a kid. I understand limits, boundaries, and consequences.
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It has been said many times (and supported by studies) that children lack the mental power to associate their actions with consequences. They can not associate their bad behavior with a 10 minute time out or losing TV time or other "delayed consequences. They can however associate immediate punishment with bad behavior.
 
iamrefreshed said:
I was beaten as a child. It wasn’t discipline as much as it was just something wrong with my father. Even with that, I believe there may come a time when a spanking is necessary.
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Yes, there needs to be a clear distinction between physical discipline and abuse. Discipline is controlled and has purpose and is never done out of rage, frustration, or spontaneously.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Yes, there needs to be a clear distinction between physical discipline and abuse. Discipline is controlled and has purpose and is never done out of rage, frustration, or spontaneously.
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When I have to spank my 3 year old, I take him to his room and I make him stay there after I spank him and until I’ve calmed myself down. It upsets me to the point that I have to go to my own room and be left alone myself. Don’t get me wrong, the kids an angel compared to what I was, but there have been a few occasions where he has slipped up to the point where I could not let it go without letting him know how much it upset me.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Ya, the world’s most prominent voice on the topic of non-physical discipline, Dr. Benjamin Spock, was the one who ushered in the era of permissive parenting to the parents of the baby-boomers. They are the ones who began to think that life had no consequences and in turn taugh that to their kids. The result…Occupy Wall Street. The children of the baby boomers and the result of the baby boomers paradigm of life without limits.
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Currently, Dr. William Sears and Gregory Popcak both write about how spanking is not neccessary.

I think spoiled teens that you see are spoiled because their parents don’t interact with them much, buy them things instead of giving them affection, and don’t expect them to do anything on their own.

Not because they were never spanked.

My dad was born in 1934. He was not hit by my grandparents. He was not lazy or spoiled, but quite the hard worker. He had responisbility, at a young age. He had parents that were affectionate, loving etc.

My Dad was very affectionate, never hit us. He was the parent we obeyed to a T, because he had high expectations, we loved him and dissappointing him hurt. How could we defy someone who loved us so?

My mom on the other hand was hit often, and sometimes she’d hit us as well.

I have seen children get spanked, and have been the recipient of a spanking. Every single incident I’ve seen is similar to how Bill Cosby described Camille spanking, “I have had enough!!!”

I’ve never seen it once where the parent is calm, and says, “Junior, come here for your spanking.”
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Ya, the world’s most prominent voice on the topic of non-physical discipline, Dr. Benjamin Spock, was the one who ushered in the era of permissive parenting to the parents of the baby-boomers. They are the ones who began to think that life had no consequences and in turn taugh that to their kids. The result…Occupy Wall Street. The children of the baby boomers and the result of the baby boomers paradigm of life without limits.
Click to expand...
Parents certainly should give their children consequences but I don’t believe that the consequences need to include spanking.

There is a big difference between permissive parents and parents who choose not to spank their kids using other meaning consequences.
 
ringil said:
Parents certainly should give their children consequences but I don’t believe that the consequences need to include spanking.

There is a big difference between permissive parents and parents who choose not to spank their kids using other meaning consequences.
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I personally believe that spanking has its place, but only in younger children where taking something away doesn’t get the point across. And in those cases, the spanking just needs to be a firm tap on the tushie, rather than something that hurts. That’s all it takes.
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
I personally believe that spanking has its place, but only in younger children where taking something away doesn’t get the point across. And in those cases, the spanking just needs to be a firm tap on the tushie, rather than something that hurts. That’s all it takes.
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I believe that there are many loving and good parents who do use spanking. I personally believe that use of spanking is not neccessary in child-rearing. Non-physical aversive conditioning and positive feedback are generally quite sufficient and research does back this up.

Still, there is room for disagreement on the matter, and light spanking certainly isn’t child abuse.
 
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