Common Principals of Faith we Share

[Servant19]

Lol, openmind, you are quite the funny one!

I don’t use trees and winds too often. I think daler has a very beautiful and imaginative mind, so trees are right up there for him!! Right daler??

Openmind, dear friend, it is midnight here in Australia. Too tired to answer these great questions. I’m sure an answer is very forthcoming

God bless you

 

[SteveVH]

Why on earth would you think arms are perfect?

I think souls in heaven should be perfect and not need anything from outside heaven.

How do you define the “soul”? We Catholics believe that the soul includes our intellect and our conscience. It is where we decide between sin and virtue. The divine attribute of free will allows us to make the wrong choices. This would seem to be a self-evident truth to which all of us can relate as we must all admit that choose to sin each and every day to one degree or another.

That is why we need a Savior. We cannot attain the perfection necessary to enter into heaven on our own. We accomplish that by submitting our lives to the only perfect One who has satisfied Justice with his own life in place of ours.

Blessings.

Steve

 

[SteveVH]

We are right in the middle of Judgement day, this is the time to make our Choices, this is a bountiful time to live in, God has blessed us all!

Hi, Tony.

Have you considered that when the day of judgment comes that it will be too late to make choices at that point? When one is judged in a court of law he is judged based upon choices already made, not choices he will make in front of the judge. The day of judgment is not the time to make choices. We must make those choices before the day of judgment.

We believe that we are in a spiritual battle. The time to take sides in a battle is not when that battle is over, but rather when it begins. When it is over, one was either an ally or an enemy and will have to accept the consequences.

Peace!

Steve

 

[openmind77]

How do you define the “soul”? We Catholics believe that the soul includes our intellect and our conscience. It is where we decide between sin and virtue. The divine attribute of free will allows us to make the wrong choices. This would seem to be a self-evident truth to which all of us can relate as we must all admit that choose to sin each and every day to one degree or another.

That is why we need a Savior. We cannot attain the perfection necessary to enter into heaven on our own. We accomplish that by submitting our lives to the only perfect One who has satisfied Justice with his own life in place of ours.

Blessings.

Steve

I was talking about souls who have already entered heaven. I would assume that heaven is a perfect place and souls (however you define them) residing in heaven are perfect and so do not need anything more to complete or satisfy them.

 

[tonyfish58]

Hi, Tony.

Have you considered that when the day of judgment comes that it will be too late to make choices at that point? When one is judged in a court of law he is judged based upon choices already made, not choices he will make in front of the judge. The day of judgment is not the time to make choices. We must make those choices before the day of judgment.

We believe that we are in a spiritual battle. The time to take sides in a battle is not when that battle is over, but rather when it begins. When it is over, one was either an ally or an enemy and will have to accept the consequences.

Peace!

Steve

Steve - All you say could be as true as all I say, there is no concrete answer with the Words of God, all can have many a meaning. IMHO If we use the words to love and know God then they are truth indeed.

It could be that the battle has been fought or it could be that we are still fighting it. It could be the choices we make in this battle is our Judgment Day. No one is alone on this Earth we are all connected, a decision I make has ramifications for mankind, we all have to work together to Heal. That of course is MHO.

I found a prayer this moring which I read and it ties into this thread, lets look at two prayers one from Christianity and One from the Baha’i Faith

The Lord’s Prayer (traditional)

Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,

The power, and the glory,

For ever and ever. Amen

O Thou kind Lord! Thou hast created all humanity from the same stock. Thou hast decreed that all shall belong to the same household. In Thy Holy Presence they are all Thy servants, and all mankind are sheltered beneath Thy Tabernacle; all have gathered together at Thy Table of Bounty; all are illumined through the light of Thy Providence.

O God! Thou art kind to all, Thou hast provided for all, dost shelter all, conferrest life upon all. Thou hast endowed each and all with talents and faculties, and all are submerged in the Ocean of Thy Mercy.

O Thou kind Lord! Unite all. Let the religions agree and make the nations one, so that they may see each other as one family and the whole earth as one home. May they all live together in perfect harmony.

O God! Raise aloft the banner of the oneness of mankind.

O God! Establish the Most Great Peace.

Cement Thou, O God, the hearts together.

O Thou kind Father, God! Gladden our hearts through the fragrance of Thy love. Brighten our eyes through the Light of Thy Guidance. Delight our ears with the melody of Thy Word, and shelter us all in the Stronghold of Thy Providence.

Thou art the Mighty and Powerful, Thou art the Forgiving and Thou art the One Who overlooketh the shortcomings of all mankind. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá Link - bahaiprayers.org/mankind4.htm

As Baha’is we see all mankind as a whole, we do not see it as we are right and you are wrong, we just feel there is a bigger picture that we would love every one to have a look at This bigger picture contains…mmmm…its too big for me to describe

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Wrong again, Iggy.

Please see above posts and if you don’t mind reading the links provided, it will cut through all the chase, my friend…

Peace and God’s blessings to you

Dale

You believe there to be a final day of judgement? As in an event which ends all history and ushers in the kingdom of God? No you don’t and i know you don’t. There can never be a day of judgement for bahai, there can only be a never ending series of incompetent prophets.

 

[Servant19]

You believe there to be a final day of judgement? As in an event which ends all history and ushers in the kingdom of God? No you don’t and i know you don’t. There can never be a day of judgement for bahai, there can only be a never ending series of incompetent prophets.

Yes Iggy, this event occurred on 2 hours 11 minutes after sunset on May 23rd, 1844.

That very night, the first telegram was sent, revolutionizing and heralding a new earth by which unification can finally be established

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Yes Iggy, this event occurred on 2 hours 11 minutes after sunset on May 23rd, 1844.

That very night, the first telegram was sent, revolutionizing and heralding a new earth by which unification can finally be established

.

Hence why you deny the Day of judgement, rather you have redefined it and moved the goal post.

 

[tonyfish58]

Hence why you deny the Day of judgement, rather you have redefined it and moved the goal post.

IgnatianPhilo - That reply is not very clear

Servant will correct me if I am Wrong but He is giving you the exact Start Day of the Day of Judgment.

IMHO - It is not a single day as such, but the accumulation of days that it will be. There is a set time when it will be complete that no one knows, it has not been told.

This is most likely how it will end

O ye peoples of the world! Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity is following you, and that grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not the deeds ye have committed have been blotted from My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My Pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite.(Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1978) section CIV).

We have fixed a time for you, O peoples. If ye fail, at the appointed hour, to turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause grievous afflictions to assail you from every direction. How severe, indeed, is the chastisement with which your Lord will then chastise you! (Ibid., section CVIII).

The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody. (Ibid., section LXI).

Bold & Text size added - Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

A few Bible Passages re the Day of Judgment

Joel 2:29-32 ESV

Even on the male and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit. “And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.

Matthew 12:36 ESV

I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,

Revelation 20:11-15 ESV

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Matthew 24:36 ESV

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

Of Course there are many

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

The Koran on the Day of Judgement

3:9 (Asad) “O our Sustainer! Verily, Thou wilt gather mankind together to witness the Day about [the coming of] which there is no doubt: verily, God never fails to fulfil His promise.”

3:25 (Asad) How, then, [will they fare] when We shall gather them all together to witness the Day about [the coming of] which there is no doubt, and every human being shall be repaid in full for what he has done, and none shall be wronged?

3:106 (Asad) on the Day [of Judgment] when some faces will shine [with happiness] and some faces will be dark [with grief]. And as for those with faces darkened, [they shall be told:] “Did you deny the truth after having attained to faith? Taste, then, this suffering for having denied the truth!”

And of course a lot lot more at this link - islamicity.com/quransearch/action.lasso.asp?-db=Quran&-lay=tblMasterTranslit&-format=SReply1.asp&-op=cn&Topics=1486&-token=Day%20of%20judgment%3C!–Asad–%3E||%3Cta%3Etrue%3C/ta%3E%3Ctt%3Etrue%3C/tt%3E%3Cts%3Etrue%3C/ts%3E%3Cdc%3Etrue%3C/dc%3E%3Ctx%3Etrue%3C/tx%3E%3Cal%3Etrue%3C/al%3E&-Sortorder=ascend&-Sortfield=cv&-find

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

IgnatianPhilo - That reply is not very clear

Servant will correct me if I am Wrong but He is giving you the exact Start Day of the Day of Judgment.

IMHO - It is not a single day as such, but the accumulation of days that it will be. There is a set time when it will be complete that no one knows, it has not been told.

This is most likely how it will end

O ye peoples of the world! Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity is following you, and that grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not the deeds ye have committed have been blotted from My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My Pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite.(Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1978) section CIV).

We have fixed a time for you, O peoples. If ye fail, at the appointed hour, to turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause grievous afflictions to assail you from every direction. How severe, indeed, is the chastisement with which your Lord will then chastise you! (Ibid., section CVIII).

The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody. (Ibid., section LXI).

Bold & Text size added - Regards Tony

What did I originally say?

 

[tonyfish58]

What did I originally say?

I see an answer to your question! History as we Knew did indeed End, the new Word of God gushed forth as promised, to which we are all now Judged. There has been given a time to which we must respond “The Day of Judgement” This day will end not so long into the Future

Now is the time to act on our Love of God.

IMHO I thought it be could not have been made more clear then that?

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

If I may share a passage:

A variety of ways, and many ways of old, God spoke to the fathers by the
prophets, in these last days has spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath
appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

• (Hebrews 1:1-2)

Was it Judgement Day during the ministry of Jesus also?

.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Let’s keep in mind that no matter how many
similarities there are, it’s the differences that
matter more.

Bringing similarities up just greases things up.

 

[SteveVH]

I was talking about souls who have already entered heaven. I would assume that heaven is a perfect place and souls (however you define them) residing in heaven are perfect and so do not need anything more to complete or satisfy them.

Once we are in heaven, you would be correct. We will be perfect, having been purified by our loving God. Were you under the impression that Christians believe differently?

 

[SteveVH]

Steve - All you say could be as true as all I say, there is no concrete answer with the Words of God, all can have many a meaning. IMHO If we use the words to love and know God then they are truth indeed.

It could be that the battle has been fought or it could be that we are still fighting it. It could be the choices we make in this battle is our Judgment Day. No one is alone on this Earth we are all connected, a decision I make has ramifications for mankind, we all have to work together to Heal. That of course is MHO.

Tony, what do you mean that there is no concrete answer with the words of God? It could be this… it could be that…?

This is exactly why Jesus started his Church and promised that it would remain until the end of time and why he sent the Holy Spirit to lead it into all truth, so that we would not be wandering around in uncertainty, but know that there is only one Way, one Truth and one Life, and that is Jesus Christ; God’s only Word. He has no other.

 

[Servant19]

Once we are in heaven, you would be correct. We will be perfect, having been purified by our loving God. Were you under the impression that Christians believe differently?

I can only imagine openmind would ask the question:

“So we do not go to heaven as soon as we die then? And all the souls, saints and holy ones since Jesus crucifixion and resurrection are not in heaven right now?”

 

[SteveVH]

I can only imagine openmind would ask the question:

"So we do not go to heaven as soon as we die then?

If openmind asks it, I will answer it.

And all the souls, saints and holy ones since Jesus crucifixion and resurrection are not in heaven right now?"

Once again, if openmind wishes to ask such a silly question based upon a statement that has never come out of a Christian’s mouth, then I will address it. But let’s allow openmind to ask his/her own questions.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I see an answer to your question! History as we Knew did indeed End, the new Word of God gushed forth as promised, to which we are all now Judged. There has been given a time to which we must respond “The Day of Judgement” This day will end not so long into the Future

Now is the time to act on our Love of God.

IMHO I thought it be could not have been made more clear then that?

Regards Tony

Sigh, my original point was that jews, Muslims and Chrisitans hold to this idea of the day of judgement. For them it is just a metaphorical thing that represents a long period of time, it is a single moment in history in which God fundamentally changes the world, everyone is judged, everyone is risen from the dead and their eternal fate is sealed.

Bahai do not believe this. Don’t claim otherwise. Don’t cliam you are in agreement with these three faiths on this issue.