Common Principals of Faith we Share

[Servant19]

If Jesus was the only one to offer salvation, why would He need to, according to Revelation, come back with a new name?

 

[openmind77]

If Christ returns “literally” from the clouds in the next, say 10 years, (or even 100 years) then, yes, that would be the end of the Baha’i religion.

What you fail to understand here, open mind, is that the Return of Christ has been expected even with the letters of Paul in the New Testament, over 1900 years ago…

Move forward to the mid to late 1800’s and you have some legitimate claims to “Expectation”…you are just another voice of expectation, but the difference is that ever since the mid 1800’s that expectation has failed to deliver as expected (again and again and again)…yet Baha’u’llah, just like Jesus, came and delivered the Message, causing seemingly little ripples in the physical world, yet apocalyptic ripples in the spiritual realm, and people on earth are missing their opportunity to serve Him.

The question is, if in 10 years, nothing has happened still, would you become a Baha’i open mind?

Maybe by then you will be filled with regrets on the lost 10 years of service to your Lord…

.

I don’t expect it to happen literally from the clouds, but I do think it will happen in the next few years (definitely less than 10).

I will try to remind you of your words at that time. (If it does not happen in 5 years, I promise to take a closer look at Bahai teachings - but as I said before I already find some major errors)

 

[daler]

I don’t expect it to happen literally from the clouds, but I do think it will happen in the next few years (definitely less than 10).

I will try to remind you of your words at that time. (If it does not happen in 5 years, I promise to take a closer look at Bahai teachings - but as I said before I already find some major errors)

Dear friend,
. There really is something about the coming of the Prophets and Avatars that takes people by surprise. They are never what most people think they are supposed to be. They don’t dazzle people with fireworks and magic tricks which fulfill the appetites of childish imagination.

. Instead, they challenge everyone who is out of tune with God to get in tune by hearing the Words of God which are uttered through Their own mouths. It isn’t something that “They” do, or initiate, or are in control of. i.e., “These are not My words, but Him that sent Me.”

. Did not Jesus say: “Behold, I will come as a Thief in the Night”. Well how does that usually happen? 99% of people sleep through the night, only to awaken and discover their treasure missing. If we wait for the “big guys” to tell us, well, that never happens. Its the simple fisherman, like Peter, who doesn’t have his ego and learning in the way.

. So… what you using for bait?

.

 

[daler]

Except Mirza Hussain did not deliver the message of Jesus. The message of Jesus being that forgiveness has come through the son whom God the father has given up to death because of his love for man. Bahai utterly reject this, attributing salvation equally (unlike the new testament) to all the manifestations.

Christ will return, false prophets from Persia, the United states, the middle east, well they will always be with us now won’t they.

Iggy,
. How ya doin’, buddy? Good to hear from you again.

. Comment: Of course Baha’u’llah didn’t deliver the message of Jesus. Jesus delivered His own message. Baha’u’llah brought the rest that ye couldn’t bare back then. Of course He teaches forgiveness, too.

. It is a regular appearance for you to say what Baha’is accept and reject, but my friend, you don’t speak for me. It was Jeremiah who said “The Lord shall set His throne in Elam”, not me. Not even Baha’u’llah. And Daniel, too, had his great vision in Elam which, if you look on a map, is SW Persia.

. Have you ever sat down at a Bible study with 7th Day Adventists? They have the whole 1844 thing down to the minute. The 2300 days (years) began in 457 BC, Christ was crucified after 70 weeks (of years), or 490 years later, which proves the starting point of the prophecies to be accurate. The only thing they missed was thinking the 1260 years applied to the Papacy, rather than noticing that the year 1260 AH of the Muslim calendar coincided with the year 1844 AD.

. When allowing for the possibility that Muhammad was foretold in Revelation, and that the 3 1/2 times, the 42 months, and the 1260 all mean the same thing, and that the year 1280 AH is 1863 AD, which happens to be 1290 years from the declaration of Muhammad to that of Baha’u’llah, then these numbers begin to take on new meaning.

. Following this logic, we are a lot further along in religious history than traditional observers can manage to follow because of the inherited traditions and conclusions of their experts, which becloud the vision of the spiritual eyes necessary to discern the signs of the times, precisely as Christ described.

. “And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?” . . Matthew 16:3

. Who do you think He was talking to, Ignatian?

. God bless you, my friend. Please go on following your mind to its conclusions and allow those of us who have followed our hearts our own. We do not insult you in your beliefs, nor should you insult us.

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

If Jesus was the only one to offer salvation, why would He need to, according to Revelation, come back with a new name?

A new name meaning a totally different person in the form and fashion totally unlike how he left, with a totally different message? If you want to argue that, sure, but the point of Christ’s coming back is judgement. The world will know, the world will be judged and all judgement has been given into the hands of the son to make such judgement, at which point all knees will bow to Jesus Christ as King and Lord. I know you reject that biblical idea.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Iggy,
. How ya doin’, buddy? Good to hear from you again.

. Comment: Of course Baha’u’llah didn’t deliver the message of Jesus. Jesus delivered His own message. Baha’u’llah brought the rest that ye couldn’t bare back then. Of course He teaches forgiveness, too.

. It is a regular appearance for you to say what Baha’is accept and reject, but my friend, you don’t speak for me. It was Jeremiah who said “The Lord shall set His throne in Elam”, not me. Not even Baha’u’llah. And Daniel, too, had his great vision in Elam which, if you look on a map, is SW Persia.

. Have you ever sat down at a Bible study with 7th Day Adventists? They have the whole 1844 thing down to the minute. The 2300 days (years) began in 457 BC, Christ was crucified after 70 weeks (of years), or 490 years later, which proves the starting point of the prophecies to be accurate. The only thing they missed was thinking the 1260 years applied to the Papacy, rather than noticing that the year 1260 AH of the Muslim calendar coincided with the year 1844 AD.

. When allowing for the possibility that Muhammad was foretold in Revelation, and that the 3 1/2 times, the 42 months, and the 1260 all mean the same thing, and that the year 1280 AH is 1863 AD, which happens to be 1290 years from the declaration of Muhammad to that of Baha’u’llah, then these numbers begin to take on new meaning.

. Following this logic, we are a lot further along in religious history than traditional observers can manage to follow because of the inherited traditions and conclusions of their experts, which becloud the vision of the spiritual eyes necessary to discern the signs of the times, precisely as Christ described.

. “And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?” . . Matthew 16:3

. Who do you think He was talking to, Ignatian?

. God bless you, my friend. Please go on following your mind to its conclusions and allow those of us who have followed our hearts our own. We do not insult you in your beliefs, nor should you insult us.

.

Numerology has never convinced me, nor have your constant attempts to make it so convinced me. Given enough time I could make any number of numers add up and argue something from that. No, what matters is the message and did your prophet recognise Jesus Christ as his savior from his sins? No, as far as I can tell he did not, he thought himself equal to Jesus in which case he was a liar.

 

[Servant19]

A new name meaning a totally different person in the form and fashion totally unlike how he left, with a totally different message? If you want to argue that, sure, but the point of Christ’s coming back is judgement. The world will know, the world will be judged and all judgement has been given into the hands of the son to make such judgement, at which point all knees will bow to Jesus Christ as King and Lord. I know you reject that biblical idea.

Of course, Christs coming back is a judgement. You are being judged. The first step is recognition. Without the knowledge of God, one has nothing.

Do you truly know Jesus? Would you count yourself as the sheep who recognize His Voice?
Have you even listened to His Voice?

In regards to a “totally different message” I refer you to dalers beautiful post above.

Who was Jesus referring to in the Gospel of Matthew quoted above?

.

 

[Servant19]

Numerology has never convinced me, nor have your constant attempts to make it so convinced me. Given enough time I could make any number of numers add up and argue something from that. No, what matters is the message and did your prophet recognise Jesus Christ as his savior from his sins? No, as far as I can tell he did not, he thought himself equal to Jesus in which case he was a liar.

1. Please go ahead and give us your conclusions from the numbers. Are you denying the Bible? You accuse Muslims of denying Paul. Are you denying Daniel?
2. Why should Baha’u’llah recognize Jesus. HE IS JESUS!!!
   Why would Jesus need to recognize Himself as needing Himself to save Himself.
   Before you say it, BAHA’U’LLAH DID NOT DIE.

He is very much alive!!!
He lives in the hearts and souls of millions, and in His own realm of Lahut!

1. What is your understanding of the passage quoted by daler from Matthews gospel?

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Of course, Christs coming back is a judgement. You are being judged. The first step is recognition. Without the knowledge of God, one has nothing.

Do you truly know Jesus? Would you count yourself as the sheep who recognize His Voice?
Have you even listened to His Voice?

In regards to a “totally different message” I refer you to dalers beautiful post above.

Who was Jesus referring to in the Gospel of Matthew quoted above?

.

The final judgement has not happened. Your Mirza Hussain a mere persian pretender has not judged me. The final judgement is precisely that, final, it will happen at the end of time. There will be a ressurection as described in Daniel 9. Merely reinterpreting our doctrines does not automatically establish your prophet.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

1. Please go ahead and give us your conclusions from the numbers. Are you denying the Bible? You accuse Muslims of denying Paul. Are you denying Daniel?
2. Why should Baha’u’llah recognize Jesus. HE IS JESUS!!!
   Why would Jesus need to recognize Himself as needing Himself to save Himself.
   Before you say it, BAHA’U’LLAH DID NOT DIE.

He is very much alive!!!
He lives in the hearts and souls of millions, and in His own realm of Lahut!

1. What is your understanding of the passage quoted by daler from Matthews gospel?

.

Lets stick with 2. You say he is Jesus, clarify. Do you mean is only Jesus in spirit, not actually being the jesus that walked 2000 years ago and was crucified or that he is literally the same Jesus whose soul has been incarnated multiple times? Can you define your beliefs concerning this without being vague, without referring to a scripture of yours which can easily be misinterpreted by a non believer?

 

[Servant19]

Merely reinterpreting our doctrines does not automatically establish your prophet.

Well that’s exactly what established Jesus.

Paul reinterpreted the Law, in fact Paul declared the Law “death”

Baha’u’llah has not quite gone so far as calling Christ commandment “death”

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Well that’s exactly what established Jesus.

Paul reinterpreted the Law, in fact Paul declared the Law “death”

Baha’u’llah has not quite gone so far as calling Christ commandment “death”

Reinterpreted it? But are you rejecting Paul’s view on Law? The law really does condemn us to death because we cannot fulfill it. It shows us our imperfection? Your prophet certaintly could not live by it, nor could Moses.

 

[Servant19]

Lets stick with 2. You say he is Jesus, clarify. Do you mean is only Jesus in spirit, not actually being the jesus that walked 2000 years ago and was crucified or that he is literally the same Jesus whose soul has been incarnated multiple times? Can you define your beliefs concerning this without being vague, without referring to a scripture of yours which can easily be misinterpreted by a non believer?

Baha’u’llah is as much Jesus as John the Baptist was the Prophet Elijah.

Can you define, without being vague, how John the Baptist was the return of the Prophet Elijah?

I pray for God to guide you to work this out for yourself dear friend.

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Baha’u’llah is as much Jesus as John the Baptist was the Prophet Elijah.

I pray for God to guide you to work this out for yourself dear friend.

.

So he wasn’t really Jesus, your just claiming he is a Jesus figure. So stop calling him Jesus, we know now you don’t consider him literally Jesus. Its a meaingless thing to then say your prophet was Jesus when you know precisely he was not. He contradicted Jesus, did he not? Do you Bahai consider Mirza Hussain’s name, the name under heaven and earth by which you are saved? Or Jesus Christ’s name? Remember we have established they are not the same in terms of their person.

 

[Servant19]

Reinterpreted it? But are you rejecting Paul’s view on Law? The law really does condemn us to death because we cannot fulfill it. It shows us our imperfection? Your prophet certaintly could not live by it, nor could Moses.

Jews reject Paul’s Christological reinterpretation of the Law as much as Christians reject Baha’u’llah’s reinterpretation of Christian doctrine.

The Jews missed out on Jesus.
Christians missed out on Baha’u’llah.

It’s up to you to OVERCOME, as it has been said of the end times, so that you can see that.

It’s between you and God.
Has NOTHING to do with me dear friend

.

 

[Servant19]

So he wasn’t really Jesus, your just claiming he is a Jesus figure. So stop calling him Jesus…

I don’t call Him Jesus.

As clearly mentioned in Revelation, He will be called by a “new name”, and that is Baha’u’llah (the Glory of The Lord), the Ancient Beauty, The Lord of Hosts, and that’s what we call Him

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Jews reject Paul’s Christological reinterpretation of the Law as much as Christians reject Baha’u’llah’s reinterpretation of Christian doctrine.

The Jews missed out on Jesus.
Christians missed out on Baha’u’llah.

It’s up to you to OVERCOME, as it has been said of the end times, so that you can see that.

It’s between you and God.
Has NOTHING to do with me dear friend

.

The Jews are wrong aren’t they. Also I miss nothing in your false prophet that is not in Christ already. I’ve asked Bahai to show me what Jesus lacked, he gave perfection and salvation, something I don’t need from anyone else. It is under his name, not your prophet, that I shall be saved.

Simply making this comparison again and again, as if CHristians are the jews of today, won’t convince us. You will have do what Justin Martyr did.

 

[Servant19]

You didn’t answer my question, Iggy

How was John the Baptist Elijah?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I don’t call Him Jesus.

As clearly mentioned in Revelation, He will be called by a “new name”, and that is Baha’u’llah (the Glory of The Lord), the Ancient Beauty, The Lord of Hosts, and that’s what we call Him

.

Lets examine that verse in revelation. I think Revelation is an exceptionally interesting book but also a dangerous book in that it requires alot of prior knowledge before one can even begin to read it with some objectivity. FIrst we need a first century world view of the roman empire, Judaism and paganism in general. We then need an extensive knowledge of Jewish apocylaptic literature both canonical and non canonical. So you can claim that this new name is Jesus, i deny that. Jesus will come himself in his own glory, not a false prophet’s glory.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

You didn’t answer my question, Iggy

How was John the Baptist Elijah?

The bible doesn’t explain it enough for you? I know what you are trying to do and I am not convinced that your prophet is the spiritual coming of Jesus. I don’t accept that simply because you say that is the case.