Communion at Protestant churches

[Tantum_ergo]

Grace, you noted the following. I’ll put my responses in blue.

Which by inference means that each church, each congregation, each individual must reach a sense of what that is instruction is, and is ultimately responsible for it himself. If he finds that he cannot agree with the teachings of his church, he must then discern whether (in all probability) he has more to learn in order to better understand the position of his church and better be in harmony with what Christ taught, or if he is ready to lay aside the teachings of his church has having become in error (perhaps through the accumulations of extra-biblical teachings over time) and for that reason face the jeers and even condemnation of his former ecclesiastical authorities in order to remain true to what he understands Christ to have actually taught. This is very definitely a Protestant way of thinking–not to be rude here. You see, your entire way of thinking is built, not on an edifice which is incorrupt in TEACHING, or in faith, but on the idea that, if a person’s individual conscience says one thing, and his denomination another, he needs to be ‘true’ to his conscience. And here is an example of how and why so many different Protestant groups come about. A member begins to question teaching A, decides that HIS CONSCIENCE somehow says this is wrong, and so he goes on to either find another church which doesn’t teach A, or to start a group which doesn’t teach A. A Catholic’s understanding --and I’ll bold this here --is that **Since God gave us, through His Son, a Church which is protected from teaching error by the Holy Spirit, therefore if a Catholic experiences doubts about a teaching regarding faith and morals, he must first be sure his own conscience is correctly informed. A properly informed conscience will never disagree with authentic Church teaching on the faith, because, as is well known, God is never divided against Himself. ** Because Catholics have a true authority in Christ, they are not thrown into disorder by those who seek to present a different teaching than the gospel–even if, as St. Paul warned us, those ‘new teachers’ appear in the guise of an angel of light. But I do see that to those for whom ‘personal autonomy’ is held above ‘any other authority’, it must be difficult to understand that a person can be ‘obedient’ to a Church when individual members of that church are sinners, or when it seems that some members say one thing, and others another. Frankly, I find it difficult to understand how many Protestants can ‘blow with the wind’, by being all gung ho for a preacher, or for a church congregation, and then suddenly ‘change’ and decide the preacher was ‘wrong’, or the congregation ‘wrong’ about, say, divorce, abortion, homosexuality, etc., and either try to force the preacher and congregation to abide by the ‘new teaching’ or else find somebody, or start a whole 'nother group to make that ‘new teaching’ into ‘the REAL teaching’, especially when you have so MANY groups each claiming to teach ‘the truth’ yet contradicting all the others!!!

He still must do what CHRIST tells him, rather than what the church tells him

. Again, what Christ tells us IS what our Church tells us. We are blessed that way.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Again, what Christ tells us IS what our Church tells us. We are blessed that way.

Just as it is obvious that I have a protestant way of thinking, so it is obvious that you have a Catholic way of thinking. I suspect that each of us will find that some of the things which we took for absolute and ultimate truth, weren’t. But right now, we just aren’t as aware of which those are and which they aren’t as we will one day become. In the meantime, given our respective views, it is probably a good thing that we are each where we are.

Go, and serve the Lord, my friend. And may the peace of the Lord go with you always.

 

[jmcrae]

Are you saying that you receive the soul and divinity of Jesus when you partake the eucharistic elements? Maybe you just mean that because you actually physically eat the body of Chist that all of the rest is contained in them and thus you have internalized that as you have internalized his body. Surely you don’t mean that Christ’s soul and divinity is incorporated into your life?

This is actually a question that is under study right now, at the Vatican. Father Joseph Iannuzzi is one of the scholars working on this, and he says it may be possible that, through the Sacraments of the Catholic Church, we are actually being Divinized and taking on the personality of Jesus Himself - St. Paul might not have just been using hyperbole when he said that we are being made over into the image of Christ. Father Joseph’s book, The Splendour of Creation, is very interesting to read.

Of course, the whole thing is purely theoretical, at this point, and may come to nothing - but who can say what God may be revealing at this extraordinary time in history? …

 

[Mannyfit75]

This is actually a question that is under study right now, at the Vatican. Father Joseph Iannuzzi is one of the scholars working on this, and he says it may be possible that, through the Sacraments of the Catholic Church, we are actually being Divinized and taking on the personality of Jesus Himself - St. Paul might not have just been using hyperbole when he said that we are being made over into the image of Christ. Father Joseph’s book, The Splendour of Creation, is very interesting to read.

Of course, the whole thing is purely theoretical, at this point, and may come to nothing - but who can say what God may be revealing at this extraordinary time in history? …

I like to add just before someone goes ballistic over the belief that we been divinized. Through’s God’s grace, we are move to enact like Jesus Christ by following his example. He is in fact our great Exemplar. We don’t become gods since the Church does not teach that. We have become a part of him.

 

[jmcrae]

I like to add just before someone goes ballistic over the belief that we been divinized. Through’s God’s grace, we are move to enact like Jesus Christ by following his example. He is in fact our great Exemplar. We don’t become gods since the Church does not teach that. We have become a part of him.

Yes, thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

And I certainly won’t go ballistic over the idea of us be coming like God (not that we become God, but are to be made holy as he is holy) for that is indeed what entire sanctification ultimately boils down to. I do think it is a product of the work of the Spirit in our lives, not of partaking of the sacrament. Interesting that you suggest it might become true that we are to think that way in the future. If it were to become true in 2027, would it not have been just as true in 1987? And if 20 years ago I was told that I was wrong because this is not what the Catholic church taught, but it ends up that it becomes what the Catholic church will teach. Was I still wrong because as a protestant I was teaching something that the Catholic church did not teach, even though one day they might? But, as already been said in this thread. when protestant have ideas, they are just so much opinion. When Catholics get them from the church, then they can be trusted. Got to tell you I don’t buy that, especially in the light of this new bit of information.

 

[jmcrae]

And I certainly won’t go ballistic over the idea of us be coming like God (not that we become God, but are to be made holy as he is holy) for that is indeed what entire sanctification ultimately boils down to. I do think it is a product of the work of the Spirit in our lives, not of partaking of the sacrament. Interesting that you suggest it might become true that we are to think that way in the future. If it were to become true in 2027, would it not have been just as true in 1987? And if 20 years ago I was told that I was wrong because this is not what the Catholic church taught, but it ends up that it becomes what the Catholic church will teach. Was I still wrong because as a protestant I was teaching something that the Catholic church did not teach, even though one day they might? But, as already been said in this thread. when protestant have ideas, they are just so much opinion. When Catholics get them from the church, then they can be trusted. Got to tell you I don’t buy that, especially in the light of this new bit of information.

Read the book - it’s The Splendour of Creation, by Father Joseph Iannuzzi. He goes into the historical evidence for his ideas, and shows how the Tradition actually supports this idea - it’s a very readable book, intended for lay people, and written in very plain language. I have also attended lectures by Father Joseph, and he is a very engaging speaker; he’s an excellent teacher. (He also enrolled me in the Brown Scapular, and heard my Confession one time; he is a wonderful Confessor - I like him a lot. )

There is no doctrine of the Church at present that would actually deny this idea - and if you look at the writings of Luisa Peccatorri, and Louis Marie de Monteforte, you can see that the germ of this idea has been around for a really long time, going all the way back to the Fathers themselves, from whom both these blessed writers quote from frequently.

 

[viper78912]

I do think it is a product of the work of the Spirit in our lives, not of partaking of the sacrament.
Acts 10.34 ‘God Shows no partiality.
44.’’While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon those who heard the word.’
The Spirit is important than the Sacrament

 

[peary]

No, we are not allowed to receive any Protestant communion for basically the same reasons they are not to receive ours.

The Eucharist is the sign of unity in the Church. Protestants are not in full communion with the Church, and their communion is not valid due to their lack of valid orders (priesthood).

When one receives the Eucharist at Mass one is declaring one’s unity with the teachings and mission of the Church. For a Catholic to receive Protestant communion is to deny that truth. In the same vein, it is hypocritical for a Protestant to receive the Eucharist while not believing/practicing the teachings of the Church, and may be dangerous to his soul.

I know this is the official Church standing but I have to disagree with it for this reason: Jesus said “Where two or more are gathered there I am in the midst of them.” As I ‘work’ at a protestant church although I am Catholic, I have no problem partaking in their communion rite because I firmly believe that Jesus is present, maybe not necessarily in the bread and (heavens forbid!) the grape juice, but in a spiritual way based on what He has told us and what is contained in Scripture. Protestants have a life of grace by nature of a valid baptism and also Scripture. Do I believe that a nonCatholic should partake of the Eucharist in a Catholic Church? No, not at all because of the nature of the Eucharist and the Church’s understanding of it, and their lack of understanding. But at an “open communion” service, I know that Jesus is present in a certain way to them, but certainly not in the way He is present in His Church through the Eucharist.
Della says that for a Catholic to receive communion in a protestant church denies the validity of the sacrament in the Catholic Church. I disagree on that, although I realize the theological repercussions. Jesus is validly present in all sorts of ways in nonCatholic Christian church communities, and I have no problem recognizing this fact and ‘going’ with it.

 

[viper78912]

.
Della says that for a Catholic to receive communion in a protestant church denies the validity of the sacrament in the Catholic Church. … Jesus is validly present in all sorts of ways in nonCatholic Christian church communities, and I have no problem recognizing this fact and ‘going’ with it.

Communion is a fellowship meal. Catholic communion is receiving the Real Jesus, Whose Spirit comes down to us at the Epiclesis and Transubstantiation.
Protestant Communion is the symbolic receiving of the memorial meal. Protestants also receive the Spiritual communion.
If A Catholic receives spiritual Communion at Mass, is it invalid?
“God is Spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth.’(John4.24).
Pope Benedict XVI has clarified that no one has the right to excommunicate. (page 141 -Journey into Easter –Cardinal Ratzinger).
Billy Graham wrote the foreword to Pope John Paul II’s eulogy.
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have prayed in a mosque. Pope Benedict XVI has kissed the Holy Quran.
CCC 816 explains that there is also truth in other religions.

 

[Theodore]

I know this is the official Church standing but I have to disagree with it for this reason: Jesus said “Where two or more are gathered there I am in the midst of them.” As I ‘work’ at a protestant church although I am Catholic, I have no problem partaking in their communion rite because I firmly believe that Jesus is present, maybe not necessarily in the bread and (heavens forbid!) the grape juice, but in a spiritual way based on what He has told us and what is contained in Scripture. Protestants have a life of grace by nature of a valid baptism and also Scripture. Do I believe that a nonCatholic should partake of the Eucharist in a Catholic Church? No, not at all because of the nature of the Eucharist and the Church’s understanding of it, and their lack of understanding. But at an “open communion” service, I know that Jesus is present in a certain way to them, but certainly not in the way He is present in His Church through the Eucharist.
Della says that for a Catholic to receive communion in a protestant church denies the validity of the sacrament in the Catholic Church. I disagree on that, although I realize the theological repercussions. Jesus is validly present in all sorts of ways in nonCatholic Christian church communities, and I have no problem recognizing this fact and ‘going’ with it.

It might be wise for you to read what the Church teaches on the suject before you become even more confused and end up leading others astray.

 

[peary]

It might be wise for you to read what the Church teaches on the suject before you become even more confused and end up leading others astray.

I know exactly what the Church teaches on the subject. I am not confused. I certainly am not leading others ‘astray’. This was a personal decision on my end, for the simple reason that I have to work there. Again, I firmly believe that “where two or more are gathered, there I AM in the midst of them”. And this goes for a protestant communion service too. Christ is not physically present but He is spiritually present to them, and this does not have to be in the bread and cup either. You seem to conveniently forget that our nonCatholic brethren definitely HAVE a life of grace afforded to them - by nature of their baptism and the Church’s scriptures. If you are going to say ‘no’ then I am of the opinion that you are calling Christ a liar, something I am not going to take a chance on doing. I witness in my own way. To paraphrase St Paul, when in Rome, do as the Romans do…:dts:

Now, do I believe that nonCatholics should receive the Eucharist in Catholic churches? Absolutely not.

 

[jmcrae]

Do I believe that a nonCatholic should partake of the Eucharist in a Catholic Church? No, not at all because of the nature of the Eucharist and the Church’s understanding of it, and their lack of understanding.

Yet, by receiving “Holy Communion” at their church, what you are doing is (unintentionally) telling them (not in words, but by your actions) that there is absolutely no difference between what Catholics believe and what Protestants believe about Holy Communion.

You should not be surprised if people from your congregation go ahead and receive the Eucharist the next time they go to a Catholic Church, because of your example to them - in their view, you are “brave” to receive in their church and show everybody that “we are all the same in the eyes of Jesus,” and they will reciprocate out of love for you, by being “brave” and receiving in yours, to show that, yes indeedy, we really are all the same.

 

[LilyM]

I know exactly what the Church teaches on the subject. I am not confused. I certainly am not leading others ‘astray’. This was a personal decision on my end, for the simple reason that I have to work there. Again, I firmly believe that “where two or more are gathered, there I AM in the midst of them”. And this goes for a protestant communion service too. Christ is not physically present but He is spiritually present to them, and this does not have to be in the bread and cup either. You seem to conveniently forget that our nonCatholic brethren definitely HAVE a life of grace afforded to them - by nature of their baptism and the Church’s scriptures. If you are going to say ‘no’ then I am of the opinion that you are calling Christ a liar, something I am not going to take a chance on doing. I witness in my own way. To paraphrase St Paul, when in Rome, do as the Romans do…:dts:

Now, do I believe that nonCatholics should receive the Eucharist in Catholic churches? Absolutely not.

Sure they have a life of grace. They do not have a valid sacrament of communion though. By receiving you are expressing a belief that protestant communion is a valid sacrament.

More than that, you are expressing an agreement with all the tenets of the denomination in which you commune. You are expressing complete unity with that denomination. Which I hope you don’t actually have. That’s what Communion means, at least to a Catholic.

And you are not truly discerning the Body and Blood, you are failing to distinguish a false show which apes that Body and Blood from the real thing. You know what St Paul says about those who fail to discern the Body and Blood.

 

[peary]

Yet, by receiving “Holy Communion” at their church, what you are doing is (unintentionally) telling them (not in words, but by your actions) that there is absolutely no difference between what Catholics believe and what Protestants believe about Holy Communion.

You should not be surprised if people from your congregation go ahead and receive the Eucharist the next time they go to a Catholic Church, because of your example to them - in their view, you are “brave” to receive in their church and show everybody that “we are all the same in the eyes of Jesus,” and they will reciprocate out of love for you, by being “brave” and receiving in yours, to show that, yes indeedy, we really are all the same.

It’s an “open communion” service, and it is open to all of any denomination. They know full well what my feelings are in this regard. And they know what the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist since 40% of this congregation is ex-Catholic. I disagree with you, and that’s all I can say

 

[jmcrae]

It’s an “open communion” service, and it is open to all of any denomination. They know full well what my feelings are in this regard. And they know what the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist since 40% of this congregation is ex-Catholic. I disagree with you, and that’s all I can say

It is open communion for them. Not for you.

By the way, it’s not me that you are disagreeing with; it’s the Catholic Church. If you profess to be Catholic, you should not ever receive Protestant communion.

 

[LilyM]

It’s an “open communion” service, and it is open to all of any denomination. They know full well what my feelings are in this regard. And they know what the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist since 40% of this congregation is ex-Catholic. I disagree with you, and that’s all I can say

EX-Catholic. In other words Protestant. Can’t you tell the difference???

And your ‘feelings’ are that their communion is no different to ours, if your words say otherwise then your actions belie them.

 

[Theodore]

You can lead people astray by your actions and by council,if you reject Catholic teaching you are no longer a Catholic…

 

[Kitty_Chan]

It’s an “open communion” service, and it is open to all of any denomination. They know full well what my feelings are in this regard. And they know what the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist since 40% of this congregation is ex-Catholic. I disagree with you, and that’s all I can say

Gonna stick my head in here and support you if you want. Open means just like you said from any other denomination which would include Catholics even though they dont like to be called a denomination to the protestant view they are. Open means open and when they go to a Catholic church its closed. Pretty simple.

Ive seen a nondem church that travels with the racing bunch and they have communion table set up for those who wish to partake outside of the service. So they have no way to do it anywhere else but its there if they desire.

I went to our sons church today and they had communion. All of the songs were about reflecting your heart, the Pastor spoke extensively about examining oneself and said in so many words that if you are unworthy then please just pass the plate along. He did call it a symbol of what Christ did and someone read scripture while it was passed out.

Not sure what happened to it all after but it was still there when I left and there was few people there, I think the Pastor takes care of it. So the kids arent in the kitchen doing communion shooters.

Im non catholic myself but when I took it I still see body and blood so call me wierd

But it was taken quiet seriously, I cannot understand the hard feelings between everyone on this. I know why theres differences thanks to Pax, so please no need to explain. I just cannot understand the hard feelings.

 

[jmcrae]

I just cannot understand the hard feelings.

It’s not “hard feelings.” It’s just that we are not allowed to make it look as though Protestant communion has anything at all in common with Catholic Communion. It would be totally dishonest to do that. As Catholics, we are supposed to be honest people.