Communion at Protestant churches

[jmcrae]

In John 4.32-34, Jesus Said,” I Have food to eat of which you do not know. “My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to finish His Work.”
An addict emerging from the den is easily recognizable as being ‘spirit filled.’
With due respect, how many are recognizable after Holy Communion, as being ‘Spirit Filled’? Are we doing His Work?

We are not always going to “get high” on Jesus - our faith lives would become unsupportable if we did. (One of the reasons being an addict is a bad thing, is because we cannot function very well when we are “high” - the ordinary business of staying alive and relating well towards others begins to suffer or take second place, and surely this is not what Jesus desires for us. We receive Holy Communion as spiritual sustenance for the journey; not in place of the journey. We still have to cope with the ordinary, and do it in the ordinary way. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

I think it’s interesting that St. John precedes the Bread of Life discourse with an account of the miracle of the loaves and fishes, almost as though He were anticipating the next question - how can Jesus multiply His body and blood, soul and divinity, to feed such a great multitude of people?

By doing it with ordinary food, Jesus shows that He is fully capable of feeding billions of people with Himself, over and over again.

Yes, I concur. He illustrates with physical food what he does with spiritual food. Eating Jesus’ physical body does nothing to nourish my spiritual hunger, I must receive him spiritually. That’s why I think you focus on the amiss when focusing on his mere physical presence. OK, you don’t focus on that alone, and so I know you do receive him spiritually as well. But I’m not missing out on anything as you suggest by not focusing on his physical presence. Jesus still feeds my soul and thousands of others, just as we was able to feed the thousands. It is a good insight, one I saw years ago, but it doesn’t require that I partake of a few grams of his flesh.

Continuing that thought. Say a non-Catholic was to come and partake of mass, since it is the body of Christ whether he believes it or not, would he not then be partaking of Jesus’ flesh just the same as you, even if he didn’t believe that is the wafer was? (This assumes that it is some non-Catholic who doesn’t realize that it is expected for him not to receive or one who chose to receive even if he did know better. For we both know that such events do occur and there probably isn’t anyway to stop it from occurring either.)

 

[LilyM]

Yes, I concur. He illustrates with physical food what he does with spiritual food. Eating Jesus’ physical body does nothing to nourish my spiritual hunger, I must receive him spiritually. That’s why I think you focus on the amiss when focusing on his mere physical presence. OK, you don’t focus on that alone, and so I know you do receive him spiritually as well. But I’m not missing out on anything as you suggest by not focusing on his physical presence. Jesus still feeds my soul and thousands of others, just as we was able to feed the thousands. It is a good insight, one I saw years ago, but it doesn’t require that I partake of a few grams of his flesh.

Continuing that thought. Say a non-Catholic was to come and partake of mass, since it is the body of Christ whether he believes it or not, would he not then be partaking of Jesus’ flesh just the same as you, even if he didn’t believe that is the wafer was? (This assumes that it is some non-Catholic who doesn’t realize that it is expected for him not to receive or one who chose to receive even if he did know better. For we both know that such events do occur and there probably isn’t anyway to stop it from occurring either.)

Such a non-Catholic would be, as Paul writes, partaking without discerning the Body and Blood. He would be, as Paul also writes, eating and drinking his own condemnation in so doing. Which is why we Catholics are so adamant in preventing ANYONE who is unworthy from partaking, which includes Catholics who are in a state of mortal (serious) sin as well.

Paul speaks of the awesome power of the Eucharist, such that those who DO receive without discernment can become physically ill or die as a result, apart from whatever spiritual ills may or may not result.

No distinction is made by him between those who knowingly are unworthy and those who simply are unaware - hence the poor state of the Catholic church as well, since too many of us receive in a state of sin when we shouldn’t.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Yes, I am quite aware of Paul’s admonition, and accept it without comment. My question was not about what would subsequently happen to such an indiivdual, but what whether or not he would also be partaking of the physical body of Christ?

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, I am quite aware of Paul’s admonition, and accept it without comment. My question was not about what would subsequently happen to such an indiivdual, but what whether or not he would also be partaking of the physical body of Christ?

Yes, he absolutely would.

It’s not a matter of “positive thinking,” where “your reality” is one thing while “my reality” is another - that’s just a dream world, and doesn’t have anything to do with the Catholic religion.

From the moment of the Consecration at Mass, Jesus is actually present under the appearances of bread and wine, just as surely as any bump or pothole in the road that rattles your chassis (along with your nerves) when you hit it too fast with your car, and just as real as whatever that was that you stubbed your toe on earlier today, or else some time previously this week.

 

[LilyM]

Yes, I am quite aware of Paul’s admonition, and accept it without comment. My question was not about what would subsequently happen to such an indiivdual, but what whether or not he would also be partaking of the physical body of Christ?

I did say they would indeed be partaking, although I went well beyond that

 

[viper78912]

it is important to have a relational, rather than a religious experience with Jesus, and experience His Infinite Love in the Eucharist and Holy Communion.

 

[LilyM]

it is important to have a relational, rather than a religious experience with Jesus, and experience His Infinite Love in the Eucharist and Holy Communion.

Which Eucharist and Holy Communion, whichever way you slice it, can only be found in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches - accept no substitutes!

 

[dthurmond]

The over all impression is clear. That somehow God dresses up nice on Sunday goes to the Catholic church then phones it in to the Baptists down the street.

HAHAHAHA***

Now that is a good one!!!

 

[LilyM]

The over all impression is clear. That somehow God dresses up nice on Sunday goes to the Catholic church then phones it in to the Baptists down the street.

HAHAHAHA***

Now that is a good one!!!

Obviously you guys believe the same thing of your respective churches, to a greater or lesser extent, otherwise we’d see all y’all at Catholic Mass a whole lot more often, no?

 

[dthurmond]

Obviously you guys believe the same thing of your respective churches, to a greater or lesser extent, otherwise we’d see all y’all at Catholic Mass a whole lot more often, no?

I’m not comprehending what you just wrote. Are you stating that because I found the quote amusing that I believe it? I am so very glad that I can still find humor in life!

 

[dthurmond]

Obviously you guys believe the same thing of your respective churches, to a greater or lesser extent, otherwise we’d see all y’all at Catholic Mass a whole lot more often, no?

Also, you will not see me at a Catholic Mass. I have never been, nor do I intend to do so in the future. I know who I am and Whose I am.

Be Blessed!

 

[dthurmond]

The GOD I serve does not rain his Love & Blessings solely upon those that are Catholic, Orthodox or otherwise. The GOD I serve showers HIS Blessings & Love upon all of us! WHERE I attend Church does not take away from the Love that GOD shows me on a daily basis! I am a living and walking example of HIS continued Grace & Mercy!!!

Anyone, that believes that by my being non-Catholic makes me any less worthy in GOD’S Eyes… might just want to have a little talk with HIM!!!

A BEAUTIFUL & BELOVED CHILD OF GOD!!!

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Obviously you guys believe the same thing of your respective churches, to a greater or lesser extent, otherwise we’d see all y’all at Catholic Mass a whole lot more often, no?

No, I don’t believe the same thing with regard to the Catholic church that I hear the Catholics on this forum expressing toward my United Methodist Church.

I believe that Catholics are members of a Church that is larger than the Catholic Church and the United Methodist Church combined. I believe both of those institutions are just subsets of the true Church found by Jesus Christ and that neither if the full embodiment of it. I believe that it is legitmate for Catholics to participate in all of the ordinances of the church and that they are both valid and effective, and I welcome any Catholic who desires to receive it to join me in Holy Communion in my church, I will gladly serve them.

But I don’t hear Catholics saying any of those things toward me or my church. Indeed, I feel like I have been told that I don’t even belong to a church and that if I showed up at a mass that I would not be welcome to participate. Though I have attended with family and friends, that’s one reason why you won’t see me at Catholic mass on other occassions. Why should I go someplace I’ve been told I’m not welcome?

 

[peary]

No, I don’t believe the same thing with regard to the Catholic church that I hear the Catholics on this forum expressing toward my United Methodist Church.

The UMC is a protestant ecclesial community not in union with the Catholic Church. As all protestant communities, it is a denominate body of believers. This does not mean that you do not share in a life of grace because you too have a valid baptism, you believe in the Triune God, you uphold the Nicene Creed, you are Christ-centered, and you also have our Scriptures. For anyone to say otherwise is just silly.

I believe that Catholics are members of a Church that is larger than the Catholic Church and the United Methodist Church combined.

Yes, the Church also reflects the Trinity in this sense: those of us who are on earth are the Church Militant. The souls who find themselves in a state of purification after death (purgatory) are the Church Suffering who are united to the sufferings of Christ in a unique way, but they are heavenbound nonetheless. Then there is the Church Triumphant - the saints around the throne of God in Heaven. All three work as One Church, much as the Trinity is revealed through One God. This is the Mystical Body of Christ. And we are the mystical body of Christ on earth.

I believe both of those institutions are just subsets of the true Church found by Jesus Christ and that neither if the full embodiment of it.

The Catholic Church is the only biblically-based Church as it is the Church from which the Bible came. It is the same Church that is recorded in the book of ACTS, the same one that Paul addresses in his letters, the same one that is mentioned throughout history. You cannot show me where there was an historic ‘break’ with Christ’s Church of the bible. It’s impossible.

I believe that it is legitmate for Catholics to participate in all of the ordinances of the church and that they are both valid and effective, and I welcome any Catholic who desires to receive it to join me in Holy Communion in my church, I will gladly serve them.

I agree up to a point. The reason I have no problem receiving communion at a UMC church is I firmly believe in my heart that “where two or more are gathered, there I am in the midst of them.” I believe that Christ is present to the worshipping community in a special way, but it is not the way of the Eucharist.

But I don’t hear Catholics saying any of those things toward me or my church. Indeed, I feel like I have been told that I don’t even belong to a church and that if I showed up at a mass that I would not be welcome to participate. Though I have attended with family and friends, that’s one reason why you won’t see me at Catholic mass on other occassions. Why should I go someplace I’ve been told I’m not welcome?

But you have NOT been told that if you showed up at Mass you would not be welcome to participate. Of course you would be welcomed to participate. The only thing is, you do not believe the same about the Eucharist as we do, or as Paul and the early Christians did. NonCatholics refraining from taking Holy Communion in a Catholic Church is not something forbidden because it is ‘forbidden’; rather, it is for you to understand that your beliefs concerning the Eucharist are deep and profoundly different from ours - 1 Corinthians 11:23-29. As Christ desired that we all be one, and that we profess one baptism, one faith, one belief, one Eucharist, this should be reflected upon.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

But you have NOT been told that if you showed up at Mass you would not be welcome to participate. Of course you would be welcomed to participate. The only thing is, you do not believe the same about the Eucharist as we do, or as Paul and the early Christians did. NonCatholics refraining from taking Holy Communion in a Catholic Church is not something forbidden because it is ‘forbidden’; rather, it is for you to understand that your beliefs concerning the Eucharist are deep and profoundly different from ours - 1 Corinthians 11:23-29. As Christ desired that we all be one, and that we profess one baptism, one faith, one belief, one Eucharist, this should be reflected upon.

First, I have been told that since I am not a Catholic I should not receive the eucharist.at a Catholic mass, to me that is the same as being told that I am not welcome to participate in the Catholic Mass.

Second, simply reading your post affirms what I already said,

No, I don’t believe the same thing with regard to the Catholic church that I hear the Catholics on this forum expressing toward my United Methodist Church.

Take for instance just these two lines from our respective posts:
Mine: I feel like I have been told that I don’t even belong to a church.
Yours: The UMC is a protestant ecclesial community

Thus proving false the statement I was responding to that had been made by LilyM

Obviously you guys believe the same thing of your respective churches, to a greater or lesser extent, otherwise we’d see all y’all at Catholic Mass a whole lot more often, no?

 

[dthurmond]

I too have been told that, and I quote…“because you’re not Catholic, you can’t take communion”, this came from my brother in law whose family is of a staunch Irish Catholic background.

I don’t believe his side of the family is Orthodox. I think there were a couple of divorces there. Also, my sister was married, got a divorce and after they had married at the justice of the peace,because the Catholic church would not allow them to get married in the church…she had to practically jump through hoops in order to get an annulment so that they could have a ceremony in the Catholic Church, so that the “Catholic Church” would recognize their marriage…3 babies and two ceremonies later…

 

[peary]

First, I have been told that since I am not a Catholic I should not receive the eucharist.at a Catholic mass, to me that is the same as being told that I am not welcome to participate in the Catholic Mass.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too! And you were rightly instructed. And the reason is for what I gave you above. Read it again - the UMC and the Catholic Church have profound differences in what is the Eucharist. Perhaps you should participate more in Mass so that you begin to understand WHY.

Second, simply reading your post affirms what I already said,

Take for instance just these two lines from our respective posts:
Mine: I feel like I have been told that I don’t even belong to a church.
Yours: The UMC is a protestant ecclesial community

You only read what you want to hear, and ignore the important points I bring up. I ALSO said that you too have a life of grace because of your baptism, the Triune God, and the Bible. The Catholic Church acknowledges that.

Thus proving false the statement I was responding to that had been made by LilyM

Only in your own mind.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Only in your own mind.

So, you think that LilyM spoke truly when she said,

Obviously you guys believe the same thing of your respective churches [that somehow God dresses up nice on Sunday goes to the Catholic church then phones it in to the Baptists down the street], to a greater or lesser extent, otherwise we’d see all y’all at Catholic Mass a whole lot more often, no?

Where in anything that I wrote (in this thread or any other) do I even come close to imply that perceive God as just “phoning it it” to the Catholic church? I wish to repent of such statements right now, if I have. I think no such thing. But in saying that I do not belong to a church but to only an ecclesiastical body, you are indeed saying that I belong to something less than the Catholic church.

I am not offended by that statement. I don’t even believe it to be true. But I do think it does show that not only to my own mind, but to yours also, that you do not see my congregation as being the equal of any Catholic congregation.

I don’t forgoe the Catholic mass because I think it is somehow less than what we have at my church. But I do think that what we have is equal to what is found in the Catholic church.

So do you agree with me, or with Lilym?

 

[jmcrae]

Indeed, I feel like I have been told that I don’t even belong to a church and that if I showed up at a mass that I would not be welcome to participate.

As a visitor, you would be welcome to participate in everything except the Sacraments. In practical terms at the everyday level, that means that you don’t join the line-up to go to Confession before Mass, and you don’t receive Holy Communion at the Mass. All of the prayers and any of the other activities occurring in and around the Church are certainly open to you, and no one would stop you from participating. (You also don’t receive Extreme Unction, Holy Orders, or Confirmation without the proper preparation, but these aren’t things you would be likely to encounter on an ordinary visit to the Catholic Church, and thus, don’t come up.)

In all my life, I think I have met or heard of perhaps five people who were wondering out loud why they were not allowed to go to Confession, yet non-Catholics are just as “excluded” from that as from Holy Communion, which is the one we seem to hear the most complaints about. Why be upset about being excluded from Holy Communion, but not be (as) upset about being excluded from Confession? (Catholics, of course, are normally expected to go to Confession before coming to Mass and receiving Holy Communion - it is a kind of a “package deal,” for us.)

Though I have attended with family and friends, that’s one reason why you won’t see me at Catholic mass on other occassions. Why should I go someplace I’ve been told I’m not welcome?

Two things, only, that you are not allowed to do.

I am quite sure that I would not be allowed to vote at your Session meetings or Board of Elders without signifying in some way that I affirm your core beliefs, but you don’t see me getting upset about that. I don’t go around saying that Methodists “deny democracy” to Catholics.