Communion on the tongue while kneeling

[Lady_Cygnus]

I have a real hard time understanding this. God is Almighty, All Powerful, we are nothing compared to His Presence. We are poor sinners who deserve not His mercy and yet He desires to give us His mercy and forgiveness. In my humble opinion, it is comprehensible to think such lowly creatures as ourselves, would be so bold as to dare to hold Our Lord God Almighty in their hands. I don’t mean to be insensitive to your thoughts, but they seem very “protestantized”.

Was not Jesus born of a Virgin and held in her hands? How many saints had visions where they were permitted to hold the Christ child? While Jesus walked on earth didn’t he touch people at all? Didn’t a sinful woman wash his feet with her tears and dry them with her hair? Didn’t John lean up against our Lord? What about the man who nailed him to the cross? Didn’t another sinner cling to him after his resurrection? What about Thomas, who doubted the truth?

I don’t recall Jesus ever standing back and saying “away you sinners, how dare you touch God!” If anything he seemed to want to be among the people, to be next to them, to be touching them. Are my sins so much worse than theirs? How is it that I’m so evil that it is incomprehensible for me to touch Him whom so many other sinners approached?

 

[Walking_Home]

Was not Jesus born of a Virgin and held in her hands? How many saints had visions where they were permitted to hold the Christ child? While Jesus walked on earth didn’t he touch people at all? Didn’t a sinful woman wash his feet with her tears and dry them with her hair? Didn’t John lean up against our Lord? What about the man who nailed him to the cross? Didn’t another sinner cling to him after his resurrection? What about Thomas, who doubted the truth?

I don’t recall Jesus ever standing back and saying “away you sinners, how dare you touch God!” If anything he seemed to want to be among the people, to be next to them, to be touching them. Are my sins so much worse than theirs? How is it that I’m so evil that it is incomprehensible for me to touch Him whom so many other sinners approached?

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You are expressing low Christology—Jesus our friend, our buddy.

We are a Church of high Christology–Our Lord Jesus, our God and our savior.

 

[labernadette]

Was not Jesus born of a Virgin and held in her hands? How many saints had visions where they were permitted to hold the Christ child? While Jesus walked on earth didn’t he touch people at all? Didn’t a sinful woman wash his feet with her tears and dry them with her hair? Didn’t John lean up against our Lord? What about the man who nailed him to the cross? Didn’t another sinner cling to him after his resurrection? What about Thomas, who doubted the truth?

I don’t recall Jesus ever standing back and saying “away you sinners, how dare you touch God!” If anything he seemed to want to be among the people, to be next to them, to be touching them. Are my sins so much worse than theirs? How is it that I’m so evil that it is incomprehensible for me to touch Him whom so many other sinners approached?

No one has called you evil.

To the questions you present I answer thusly:

Are we ever to dare compare ourselves to His mother and ours, the Blessed Virgin Mary? Or to the saints who have earned special place with God? Do you remember the words of Our Lord to Mary Magdalen after His resurrection when He told her not to touch Him? He is Our Lord and our God of Whom we owe the most profound adoration, love, and praise. He is our Crucified Lord and Master, and we should not think of Him Who is Infinite in this way suggested, which as humans we are not capable of, nor should kid ourselves into thinking we could be.

 

[paramedicgirl]

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You want justification----how about our late Pope’s own words. Our late Pope knew what is happening----yet the focus has been skewed from Christ to the creature. The creature has become dominant. Knowing what he did----the late Pope could have stopped it—but he didn’t. Why----there are those who receive “reverently”.

So every time someone receives in the hand----in essence they are participating in an act that brings “a deplorable lack of respect”.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_24021980_dominicae-cenae_en.html

In some countries the practice of receiving Communion in the hand has been introduced. This practice has been requested by individual episcopal conferences and has received approval from the Apostolic See. However, cases of a deplorable lack of respect towards the eucharistic species have been reported, cases which are imputable not only to the individuals guilty of such behavior but also to the pastors of the church who have not been vigilant enough regarding the attitude of the faithful towards the Eucharist. It also happens, on occasion, that the free choice of those who prefer to continue the practice of receiving the Eucharist on the tongue is not taken into account in those places where the distribution of Communion in the hand has been authorized. It is therefore difficult in the context of this present letter not to mention the sad phenomena previously referred to. This is in no way meant to refer to those who, receiving the Lord Jesus in the hand, do so with profound reverence and devotion, in those countries where this practice has been authorized.

Thanks for that link WH. Here is a quote from it where Pope John Paul II says:

To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist. It is obvious that the Church can grant this faculty to those who are neither priests nor deacons, as is the case with acolytes in the exercise of their ministry, especially if they are destined for future ordination, or with other lay people who are chosen for this to meet a just need, but always after an adequate preparation

 

[paramedicgirl]

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You seem to be trying to justify yourself —by putting it on our Lord Christ. Communion in the hand was not our Lord’s doing. The Pope gave in—when he should have stood firm.

This document, Memoriale Domini clearly states that communion in the hand started as an abuse.

Indeed, in certain communities and in certain places this practice has been introduced without prior approval having been requested of the Holy See, and, at times, without any attempt to prepare the faithful adequately.

And this:

When therefore a small number of episcopal conferences and some individual bishops asked that the practice of placing the consecrated hosts in the people’s hands be permitted in their territories, the Holy Father decided that all the bishops of the Latin Church should be asked if they thought it opportune to introduce this rite. A change in a matter of such moment, based on a most ancient and venerable tradition, does not merely affect discipline. It carries certain dangers with it which may arise from the new manner of administering holy communion: the danger of a loss of reverence for the august sacrament of the altar, of profanation, of adulterating the true doctrine.

The bishops actually voted against communion in the hand, but where the abuse prevailed, Memoriale Domini states:

Where a contrary usage, that of placing holy communion on the hand, prevails, the Holy See–wishing to help them fulfill their task, often difficult as it is nowadays–lays on those conferences the task of weighing carefully whatever special circumstances may exist there, taking care to avoid any risk of lack of respect or of false opinions with regard to the Blessed Eucharist, and to avoid any other ill effects that may follow.

 

[paramedicgirl]

… the Priest refused to give me Communion until I stood up…

From the Wanderer via Domus Dei-

The Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments summed up and strengthened its previous objections to such constrictive interpretations on July 1, 2002:

“This CDWDS has recently received reports of members of the faithful…being refused Holy Communion unless standing to receive as opposed to kneeling…The Congregation is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received…and considers any refusal of Holy Communion…on the basis of…kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful.”

“Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted (note: I find the choice of the word “permitted” worth some reflection as well) to the Conferences of Bishops…it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds…In fact, as His Eminence, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor centuries-old tradition, and is…completely appropriate…the Congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness.”

 

[Walking_Home]

This document, Memoriale Domini clearly states that communion in the hand started as an abuse.
Quote:
Indeed, in certain communities and in certain places this practice has been introduced without prior approval having been requested of the Holy See, and, at times, without any attempt to prepare the faithful adequately.

And this:
Quote:
When therefore a small number of episcopal conferences and some individual bishops asked that the practice of placing the consecrated hosts in the people’s hands be permitted in their territories, the Holy Father decided that all the bishops of the Latin Church should be asked if they thought it opportune to introduce this rite. A change in a matter of such moment, based on a most ancient and venerable tradition, does not merely affect discipline. It carries certain dangers with it which may arise from the new manner of administering holy communion: the danger of a loss of reverence for the august sacrament of the altar, of profanation, of adulterating the true doctrine.

The bishops actually voted against communion in the hand, but where the abuse prevailed, Memoriale Domini states:

Quote:
Where a contrary usage, that of placing holy communion on the hand, prevails, the Holy See–wishing to help them fulfill their task, often difficult as it is nowadays–lays on those conferences the task of weighing carefully whatever special circumstances may exist there, taking care to avoid any risk of lack of respect or of false opinions with regard to the Blessed Eucharist, and to avoid any other ill effects that may follow.​

Thanks for this information. This has all been a very, very sad state of affairs.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Was not Jesus born of a Virgin and held in her hands? How many saints had visions where they were permitted to hold the Christ child? While Jesus walked on earth didn’t he touch people at all? Didn’t a sinful woman wash his feet with her tears and dry them with her hair? Didn’t John lean up against our Lord? What about the man who nailed him to the cross? Didn’t another sinner cling to him after his resurrection? What about Thomas, who doubted the truth?

I don’t recall Jesus ever standing back and saying “away you sinners, how dare you touch God!” If anything he seemed to want to be among the people, to be next to them, to be touching them. Are my sins so much worse than theirs? How is it that I’m so evil that it is incomprehensible for me to touch Him whom so many other sinners approached?

In your examples, Jesus isn’t in the form of bread that crumbles easily, fracturing Him into a multitude of pieces that could be trampled on though.

 

[laudamus_te]

If the Pope forbade the practice tomorrow, I would feel no remorse for my actions today since I’ve committed no sin. In obedience I would accept the change in discipline and encourage others to do the same. I could ask you the same question…what if tomorrow the Pope forbade communion on the tongue, would you then agree with communion in the hand?

No, I would not agree nor accept it. To do so would be false obedience.

It simply stuns me that so many good Catholics have this mentality towards the Body of Christ, present in the Holy Eucharist. It saddens me greatly, and I feel certain that it saddens Our Lord. Think, all of you, of the particles which are scattered - and you can be sure that there are many! Our Lord does not deserve to be treated in this way, and no amount of pious, reverent feeling on the part of communicants can avoid this fact. All of you who are still receiving in the hand, I beg of you to think about this.

 

[BobP123]

I don’t recall Jesus ever standing back and saying “away you sinners, how dare you touch God!” If anything he seemed to want to be among the people, to be next to them, to be touching them. Are my sins so much worse than theirs? How is it that I’m so evil that it is incomprehensible for me to touch Him whom so many other sinners approached?

That’s fine. But I don’t see any appreciation of God in those hands who quickly place their Hosts in their mouths and chew It up before they get back to their pews and pretend like nothing happened. Isn’t something taken for granted here while trying to rationalize a sacrilege?

 

[Cat]

“…rationalizing a sacrilege”??

BobP123, talk to my Bishop, the apostle of Jesus Christ.

You comment is harsh, IMO.

We are doing what our Bishop and our Church has said is acceptable by receiving the Lord in our hand.

If I am committing sacrilege, then my Bishop is committing sacrilege, and if he is committing sacrilege, then my CHURCH is committing sacrilege…WHO is in charge here, anyway!!! The Pope and the Magisterium, or [edited by Moderator]?

[Edited by Moderator]

 

[Lady_Cygnus]

No, I would not agree nor accept it. To do so would be false obedience.

It simply stuns me that so many good Catholics have this mentality towards the Body of Christ, present in the Holy Eucharist. It saddens me greatly, and I feel certain that it saddens Our Lord. Think, all of you, of the particles which are scattered - and you can be sure that there are many! Our Lord does not deserve to be treated in this way, and no amount of pious, reverent feeling on the part of communicants can avoid this fact. All of you who are still receiving in the hand, I beg of you to think about this.

False obedience? I’ve never heard the term, but I thought that it was only immoral to obey when it involved a direct sin (kill this person now - steal, lie, be unchaste, etc). In which manner we receive the Lord is a matter of discipline, and hardly a sin if the Church has set the standard. What if they were to say that the only reverent way to receive was to lie down on your back and open wide and have the host dropped in?

I beg you to think about whom Jesus left in charge. Whether or not it started as an abuse, it is allowed. Pray for it’s change if you so wish, but don’t vilify those who choose to do what’s allowed, which is what you’ve been doing.

 

[Like]

That’s fine. But I don’t see any appreciation of God in those hands who quickly place their Hosts in their mouths and chew It up before they get back to their pews and pretend like nothing happened. Isn’t something taken for granted here while trying to rationalize a sacrilege?

So, now traditionalist can read the soul’s of those who receive in the hand?!?

 

[labernadette]

False obedience? I’ve never heard the term, but I thought that it was only immoral to obey when it involved a direct sin (kill this person now - steal, lie, be unchaste, etc). In which manner we receive the Lord is a matter of discipline, and hardly a sin if the Church has set the standard. What if they were to say that the only reverent way to receive was to lie down on your back and open wide and have the host dropped in?

I beg you to think about whom Jesus left in charge. Whether or not it started as an abuse, it is allowed. Pray for it’s change if you so wish, but don’t vilify those who choose to do what’s allowed, which is what you’ve been doing.

In defense of laudamus te no vilifying has been done, clearly. These ridiculous analogies of receiving communion which you propose are silly and pointless. The church has always taught that the faithful should receive communion on the tongue while kneeling, and furthermore, the faithful are receiving both the Body and Blood of Our Lord present in the Sacred Host, it is not necessary to receive under both species and that has been the norm in the church for centuries.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Why not intinction on the tongue while kneeling?

It seems that would solve alot of problems.

 

[stmaria]

“…rationalizing a sacrilege”??

BobP123, talk to my Bishop, the apostle of Jesus Christ.

You comment is harsh, IMO.

We are doing what our Bishop and our Church has said is acceptable by receiving the Lord in our hand.

If I am committing sacrilege, then my Bishop is committing sacrilege, and if he is committing sacrilege, then my CHURCH is committing sacrilege…WHO is in charge here, anyway!!! The Pope and the Magisterium, or [edited by Moderator]?

[Edited by Moderator]

An article written by John Vennari

“Out of reverence towards this sacrament, nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest’s hands, for touching this sacrament.”
-ST. THOMAS AQUINAS, Summa Theologica

It is a bedrock Catholic truth, taught by the Church since the time of the Apostles, that Our Lord Jesus Christ is truly present in the Most Holy Eucharist: Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

The Council of Trent defined dogmatically that Our Lord Jesus Christ is present in every part of the Blessed Sacrament. The Council taught infallibly:

“If anyone denieth that, in the venerable Sacrament of the Eucharist, the whole Christ is contained under each species, and under every part of each species, when separated, let him be anathema.”

This means that Our Lord is present even in the smallest particle of the Host, and in the smallest particle that may fall to the ground. Thus the reverence that we owe to the Blessed Sacrament demands that we take every precaution that no particle of the Host - not even the smallest - is left open for desecration in any way.

First of all, Saint Thomas Aquinas taught that “out of reverence for this Sacrament, nothing touches it but what is consecrated.” Thus, he said the sacred vessels of the altar are consecrated for this holy purpose, but also, the priest’s hands are consecrated for touching this Sacrament. And St.Thomas said that it is therefore not lawful for anyone else to touch it, except to save it from desecration. (Summa, III, Q. 82. Art. 3)

This reverence for the Blessed Sacrament, and even for the smallest particles, was incorporated into the traditional Mass - the Old Latin Mass - which contained strict rubrics on this point:

1. From the moment the priest pronounces the words of the Consecration over the Sacred Host, the priest keeps his forefinger and thumb together on each hand. Whether he elevates the chalice, or turns the pages of the missal, or opens the tabernacle, his thumb and his forefinger on each hand are closed. The thumb and forefinger touch nothing but the Sacred Host;
2. During Holy Communion, the altar boy holds the paten under the chin of those receiving Communion, so that the slightest particle does not fall to the ground. This paten is cleaned into the chalice afterwards;
3. After Holy Communion is distributed, the priest scrapes the corporal (the small linen cloth on the altar) with the paten, and cleans it into the chalice so that if the slightest particle is left, it is collected and consumed by the priest;
4. Then, the priest washes his thumb and forefinger over the chalice with water and wine, and this water and wine is reverently consumed to insure that the smallest particle of the Sacred Host is not susceptible to desecration.

**What happens with Communion in the hand?**The Host is placed in the hand, which is not consecrated. The communicant picks It up with his own fingers, which are not consecrated. The sacred particles fall to the ground, and are stepped upon and desecrated.

The hands of Eucharistic lay-ministers are not consecrated; they should not be touching the Sacred Host. The sacred particles of the Host fall to the ground, are stepped upon and desecrated. The fingers of Eucharistic lay-ministers are not washed, so any particle remaining will also be desecrated.

No authority in the Church can dispense a Catholic from the duty of preserving the necessary reverence owed to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.

Only forty-five years ago, Communion in the hand was unthinkable in Catholic churches. But now, this abuse is permitted and promoted by a hierarchy who now approves what the Church always condemned.

The truth, however, is that God does not change, and man’s duty of reverence toward the Blessed Sacrament does not change.

Communion in the hand is a desecration of the greatest gift that God has given us: the Real Presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist.

 

[laudamus_te]

False obedience? I’ve never heard the term, but I thought that it was only immoral to obey when it involved a direct sin (kill this person now - steal, lie, be unchaste, etc). In which manner we receive the Lord is a matter of discipline, and hardly a sin if the Church has set the standard. What if they were to say that the only reverent way to receive was to lie down on your back and open wide and have the host dropped in?

I beg you to think about whom Jesus left in charge. Whether or not it started as an abuse, it is allowed. Pray for it’s change if you so wish, but don’t vilify those who choose to do what’s allowed, which is what you’ve been doing.

I will pray for all Catholics to have utmost reverence for the Body of Christ in the Holy Eucharist, and to have the sensibility to recognize that their hands are not consecrated, thus should not touch the sacred Host. I am aware that Communion in the hand is allowed. It needs to change. I am not and I have not, here or elsewhere, vilified anyone. I am passionate about this, I am genuinely troubled about the fact that the Body of Christ is handled with casualness and trodden upon, and any Catholic who really thinks about it will be, too. I wish only to ask people to give this matter serious consideration.

 

[Like]

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Remember-- our Pope is infallible in only certain circumstances. He can make a mistake. We are living thru a time of tormoil—and why—because of wrong decisions.

Being raised in the Traditional Catholic Church of the 40’s, 50’s & 60’s and Catholic schools grade 1st through 10th, I believed I was a Traditionalist even to the point of leaving the Church in '72 due to the changing of the Mass (I almost said Vat.II because back then I thought that was the problem). I was a 4th. Degree Knight of Columbus and that’s all they would talk about at all the meetings, VII this VII that. I never once renounced my religion, I just quite going to Church until JP II’s death. I starting surfing the net for anything & everything I could find on this Holy man & the Holy Catholic Church. I started going to Church again and being a Traditionalist, for awhile I was still unhappy about the changes of the Mass. Looking for all the faults and abuses of the NO Mass and there were some, but not to the extent of what I read on these forums. I finally realize I was a Catholic because I was a Knight of Columbus instead of the other way around.
Reading this thread and others in this forum where some think they are more Catholic than the Pope & too speak ill of the Holy John Paul II makes me sick!

 

[Like]

**No, I would not agree nor accept it. To do so would be false obedience. **

It simply stuns me that so many good Catholics have this mentality towards the Body of Christ, present in the Holy Eucharist. It saddens me greatly, and I feel certain that it saddens Our Lord. Think, all of you, of the particles which are scattered - and you can be sure that there are many! Our Lord does not deserve to be treated in this way, and no amount of pious, reverent feeling on the part of communicants can avoid this fact. All of you who are still receiving in the hand, I beg of you to think about this.

Another Holier the the Pope?

 

[Cat]

stmaria, you said,
“Communion in the hand is a desecration of the greatest gift that God has given us: the Real Presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist.”

TAKE IT UP WITH MY BISHOP!!!

I am not irreverent when I receive the Lord.

You are insulting a lot of Catholics who are in obedience to their Bishops.