Nonsense. There is clearly individuals who are leaders, whether or not they are described that way.
Communist China orders Christians to replace crosses and images of Jesus Christ with portraits of communist leaders
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That’s not clear at all. I see no evidence of a central national Marxist controlling agency. As I said, the movement existed two years before these supposed “leaders” showed up and got a website. Who was leading the movement during those two years? No, it is just fear mongering to put the label on Marxist on the good people marching for justice. I suppose you would have criticized the whole anti-slavery movement based on the atrocities committed at Harper’s Ferry too, right? It is the same thing. John Brown (who you would have called one of the “leaders” of the abolition movement) killed many innocent whites at Harper’s Ferry. So by your logic, the whole abolition movement was tainted, and had no more validity. That is crazy, of course. Just as crazy as saying that Black Lives Matter protesters are Marxists.LeafByNiggle:
Nonsense. There is clearly individuals who are leaders, whether or not they are described that way.
Look at the leadership today. Look at what they profess. Look at what they say about themselves.
Or don’t if it is unimportant to you.
People should be fearful of Marxism. There are many people marching in the streets who are not Marxist. As I said, it is a clever linguistic trick on the part of the leading spokespeople.
On the contrary, I would have criticized the leadership of those who committed the atrocities, much like I never mentioned those peaceful protesters in the streets until
You tried to conflate the two.
Please show where I said Black Lives Matter protesters are Marxist. Again, it is a clever linguistic trick.
Well done.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I have. Our local Black Lives Matter people do not espouse Marxism.LeafByNiggle:
Look at the leadership today. Look at what they profess. Look at what they say about themselves.
Still trying the fear mongering approach? There is no market for it here.
Correction: The vast majority of those marching in peaceful protests are not Marxists. And by the way, did you hear how in Portland, after the Feds withdrew, the peaceful protesters themselves were able to discourage further violence and actually intervened and prevented violence? You see, you don’t need a fully-armed swat team to quell violence. You just need to have some respect for the people you are protecting.
If you did not mean to associate Marxism with the peaceful protestors, which make up the vast majority of Black Lives Matter protesters, why are you using the term “Black Lives Matter” without qualification when talking about Marxism? If you are referring to a tiny subset of participants, then just say so and we can drop it.
Good. Question: do they espouse the principles of the founding, the principles that civil rights leaders always pointed to as their goal: all have equal rights, these right are antecedent to government, government has an obligation to protect individual rights.
People should be fearful of fascism. Is that fear mongering?
People should be fearful of white supremacy.
Is that fear mongering?
I don’t think so. Same with Marxism.
Good.
That’s good, too. It is unfortunate that they didn’t do that before federal Law enforcement had to step in. It is unfortunate that Portland’s leadership allowed it all to happen in the first place. It was unfortunate that Ike had to send federal troops into Little Rock in 1957 because local government officials didn’t do their jobs.
Then why didn’t Portland police do it? Oh, I forgot, Portland’s elected officials wouldn’t let them.
More of the clever linguistic twist. The leadership and their professed goals are Marxist. You can try to provide cover for them by conflating, but it doesn’t work. I believe that black lives matter. I reject the philosophy of Black Lives Matter when it differs from the founding principles I stated earlier
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That is the linguistic twist, calling someone “the leadership” without any clear evidence they are leading anything.
T
Tambo
Guest
Carl Marx quote: “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of a soulless condition. It is the opium of the people”. The leaders of the BLM have said they are Marxists, it doesn’t matter if many of those protesters are not Marxists, this how communism works, get the ignorant masses doing all their dirty work, then they ( communists) take over. We pretty much already have a secular society so it won’t take much to next accuse Christianity of being the cause of hatred , bigotry, racism, homophobia, that’s when the persecution begins and the church is forced underground. It’s already beginning.
Here BLM identifies their co-founders.
Then, in her own words.
Black Lives Matter co-founder describes herself as ‘trained Marxist’
Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological f…
nypost.com
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Yes, you are quoting the very organization that is not the leader of the movement, so whatever they say about their own leader is irrelevant to what is actually leading the huge numbers of protesters we saw.
If you really want to know about the founding of the Black Lives Matter movement you have to go back to history. This is from Wikipedia:
Black Lives Matter ( BLM ) is a decentralized movement advocating for non-violent civil disobedience in protest against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against African-American people. While Black Lives Matter can primarily be understood as a decentralized social movement, an organization known simply as Black Lives Matter exists as a decentralized network with about 16 chapters in the United States and Canada. The broader movement and its related organizations typically advocate against police violence towards black people, as well as for various other policy changes considered to be related to black liberation.
In July 2013, the movement began with the use of the hashtag #BlackLivesMatter on social media after the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the shooting death of African-American teen Trayvon Martin 17 months earlier, in February 2012. The movement became nationally recognized for street demonstrations following the 2014 deaths of two African Americans: Michael Brown resulting in protests and unrest in Ferguson, Missouri, a city near St. Louis—and Eric Garner in New York City. Since the Ferguson protests, participants in the movement have demonstrated against the deaths of numerous other African Americans by police actions or while in police custody.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Exactly. Wikipedia describes the whole movement. The BLM website describes only themselves.
You don’t seriously dispute that Black Lives Matter started in 2013, do you? You don’t need Wikipedia to tell you that. Just remember back to 2013 yourself. I remember it quite clearly. It was very well-known.
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Yes. BLM describes BLM. It isn’t me saying their leadership is Marxist. They’re saying it. Who am I to say otherwise?
I don’t dispute what the founders and leaders say about themselves. If they’re not Marxists, they shouldn’t say they are.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
LeafByNiggle . . .
I would just post a video of one of their founders admitting it, but the leftists at Google/Youtube are going to try to hide it from me for political purposes.
Those that want to know, get-it.
Those that don’t want to know will refuse to get-it. Even when it is staring them in the face.
I have shown it to me enough to draw my own conclusions.
I would just post a video of one of their founders admitting it, but the leftists at Google/Youtube are going to try to hide it from me for political purposes.
Those that want to know, get-it.
Those that don’t want to know will refuse to get-it. Even when it is staring them in the face.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
But the BLM you refer to is not the leadership of the movement. Sure, they may say they are, but that is to be expected from an organization that wants to inflate their importance.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
They are not the founders. They only claim to be the founders of the movement. Don’t you remember 2013 when the movement started?
T
ThinkingSapien
Guest
The BLM movement predates the organization of the same name.
If I started an org tomorrow called “Free Speech” chances are that not everyone sa uh ing “I believe in Free Speech” is making a statement of alignment with my organization. That concept would predate the org.
If I started an org tomorrow called “Free Speech” chances are that not everyone sa uh ing “I believe in Free Speech” is making a statement of alignment with my organization. That concept would predate the org.
V
Victoria33
Guest
Popular movements get hijacked, I’ve said this before.
That Cuban Revolution wasn’t all Fidel Castro and many are disappointed as to how it went.
Syria had a popular uprising, simply protesting for more freedoms and I guess, Jihadists came in and help exploit the situation.
It frequently happens.
But having said that, I would not dismiss a charter they have. It means something.
That Cuban Revolution wasn’t all Fidel Castro and many are disappointed as to how it went.
Syria had a popular uprising, simply protesting for more freedoms and I guess, Jihadists came in and help exploit the situation.
It frequently happens.
But having said that, I would not dismiss a charter they have. It means something.
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C
Cathoholic
Guest
Victoria33 . . .
Good point. Especially when the actions are consistent with the implimentation of a Marxist paradigm.
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R
Regular_Atheist
Guest
It barely does though. The campus/ activist “Marxism” expounded by BLM activist types has little to do with the critique offered by Marx.
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