Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

[worldcitizen]

Luke 14

Jesus Tells the Parable of the Great Feast

15 When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.” 16 Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. 17 At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ 18 “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’ 19 “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’ 20 “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’ 21 “The servant came back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and ordered his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame.’ 22 “ ‘Sir,’ the servant said, ‘what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.’ 23 “Then the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full.

24 I tell you, not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet.’ ”

We Baha’is are the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame. You were all invited first.

 

[Servant19]

Your questions make no sense

“…but just how many Gods are there? One.” - Brihadaranyaka Upanishad (Hindu teaching)"

A relatively modern Hindu tradition (compared to the three older traditions), invites the worship of more than one god including Shiva, Vishnu, Shakti, Ganesha (the elephant god) and Surya (the sun god) among other gods and goddesses.

The Rigveda speaks of Thirty-three gods called the Tridasha (‘Three times ten’). They consisted of the 12 Adityas, the 8 Vasus, the 11 Rudras and the 2 Ashvins. Indra also called Śakra, lord of the gods, is the first of the 33 followed by Agni. Some of these brother gods were invoked in pairs such as Indra-Agni, Mitra-Varuna and Soma-Rudra.

Here are just some of the many Hindu gods and goddesses:
Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Ganapati, Saraswati, Lakshmi, Durga Devi, Indra, Surya, Agni, Hanuman

Avatars of Vishnu
Rama
Krishna
" Krishna’s promise to humanity that he will manifest himself and descend to earth whenever dharma declines has sustained Hindu belief in the Supreme Being over thousands of years."

I can see why mírzá husayn-`alí núri will try and use Krishna for his own benefit

God in Buddhism. Gautama Buddha rejected the existence of a creator deity, refused to endorse many views on creation, and stated that questions on the origin of the world are not ultimately useful for ending suffering.

The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is one of the oldest of the Upanishads. It’s as original a teaching as any teaching in Hinduism. It explains the reason for the 33 Gods etc etc that you mention and it effectively calls the existence of multiple gods a heresy.

The point is this though Jimmy.

How on earth would I know if the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is authentic teaching from Krishna??

We don’t have the truth about this religion. My source is as ridiculously unauthentic as your source.

Why would we use it as a means to prove another religion as false??

Just laughable argumentation!

.

 

[worldcitizen]

How wonderful is my dear wife! She cooks an apple cake and the house is filled with the glory of Apple pastry while I am fasting and she tells me ‘it tastes terrible’!!!

How reassuring. Well it does smell terrible. It smells terribly delicious!!!

Just want to thank everyone here for everything. I am really feeling happy and that is because I’m getting lots of spiritual food so this sharing is a real gift to me and I thank all the dear Catholics, Hindus, Muslims and Baha’is here who are letting me eat my fill of very scrumptious spiritual food.

THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE!!

 

[TonyBS]

How wonderful is my dear wife! She cooks an apple cake and the house is filled with the glory of Apple pastry while I am fasting and she tells me ‘it tastes terrible’!!!

How reassuring. Well it does smell terrible. It smells terribly delicious!!!

Just want to thank everyone here for everything. I am really feeling happy and that is because I’m getting lots of spiritual food so this sharing is a real gift to me and I thank all the dear Catholics, Hindus, Muslims and Baha’is here who are letting me eat my fill of very scrumptious spiritual food.

THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE!!

Well you are a lucky man

Me, too tired so can of Baked Beans on toast tonight

God is great

God bless all and Regards Tony

 

[worldcitizen]

Well you are a lucky man

Me, too tired so can of Baked Beans on toast tonight

God is great

God bless all and Regards Tony

Baked beans on toast is a meal fit for a King and Tony you at least rank as a prince.

I used to love and still love just plain bread or even with just butter and i like the simple dishes the most.

But my wife can make a blazing hot curry that will soon make over talkative people very quiet!!

Do we know what the favourite meal was of Jesus or Muhammad or Baha’u’llah?

 

[Servant19]

Baked beans on toast is a meal fit for a King and Tony you at least rank as a prince.

I used to love and still love just plain bread or even with just butter and i like the simple dishes the most.

But my wife can make a blazing hot curry that will soon make over talkative people very quiet!!

Do we know what the favourite meal was of Jesus or Muhammad or Baha’u’llah?

Many of the Apostles of Baha’u’llah lived on just raw onions and bread.

Oh the delights of being able to Fast with those blessed souls.

.

 

[Techno2000]

Luke 14

Jesus Tells the Parable of the Great Feast

15 When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.” 16 Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. 17 At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ 18 “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’ 19 “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’ 20 “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’ 21 “The servant came back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and ordered his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame.’ 22 “ ‘Sir,’ the servant said, ‘what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.’ 23 “Then the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full.

24 I tell you, not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet.’ ”

We Baha’is are the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame. You were all invited first.

This is about the Jews being rejected, and the Gentiles being accepted.

 

[ericc]

Did Moses lie about the Sabbath?
Did God lie about circumcision for Paul to wish the knife would slip on those who wish to be circumcised?

You have missed the point entirely. I am not saying that there are no truths in your religion. I am highlighting those that it couldn’t be true across all religions. And since they can’t be true across all religions, or at least you didn’t attempt to prove it, the conclusion is then that your religion couldn’t be true, in at least in the areas under discussion.

Krishna taught monotheism. Please get your facts correct

If Krishna is the avatar of Vishnu, then why does he have to pray to Shiva when he wanted to have a son? Isn’t he god? Why would a god need to pray to another god for things? Then what about Brahma? Did Krishna taught the non-existence of Brahma? So how could Krishna teach monotheism? If Krishna accepted Brahma and Shiva, that is not monotheism, not counting himself (Vishnu.)

Please prove to me that the Buddha never taught the existence of God.

Then show me that he taught to worship one god. He certainly didn’t claim to be god which you insist he is. He worshiped no god too.

It’s unfair to speak like this when every Jew on the planet thinks that God is one, not the lie that is the Trinity.

I certainly agree that God is one. You certainly have been lied to that the Trinity is made up of 3 gods.

There is no stepping back from the reality that the Baha’i Faith does not deny the possible physical resurrection of Christ, but this account in the Gospels CONTRADICTS everything written by the Apostles about the Resurrection.

What would a Bahai Faith that is barely 200 years old know about the apostles/Bible that we have known for 2000 years?

So you are accusing my God of lying at the very end since Jesus claimed he died and rose again. But you have been very polite not to say that directly. Thank you. But it is a chore getting you to admit that part.

I think the Baha’i Faith gives a complete and whole picture.

Then why all the evasive tactics and non-answers?

John the Baptist NEVER claimed to be the return of the Prophet Elijah. Conveniently forgotten information.

Another evasive move? I was asking about Abraham and Moses and you bring up John the Baptist?

Lot of talking here Eric from one side of your mouth while the other side is speaking other things…

Not really. Just asking hard questions looking for answers to bombastic claims. Which didn’t materialize despite claiming complete and whole picture disclosure. This is really not about me, but about the claims of the Bahai Faith.

cont’d

 

[ericc]

All unsubstantiated hogwash Eric…

Ok. Let me give you a sample:

1. J.E. Esslemont Bahaullah and the New Era. 1923 edition, the first edition pg 212.

The author witnessed this table-talk where Abdul Baha prophesied that in 1957 AD :

" Universal Peace will be firmly established, a Universal language promoted. Misunderstandings will pass away. The Baha’i Cause will be promulgated in all parts of and the oneness of mankind established. It will be glorious !"

Well, the time came and went and no Universal Peace/Language. Middle East was in turmoil, Vietnam War ongoing. So the prophecy was false. Guess what, the 1980 and earlier editions took out that offending prophecy. Of course the author is long dead and can’t do much to object to management mutilating his book.

1. Bahai management claimed that the Bab was like John the Baptist, preparing the way for Bahaullah’s coming.

Fortunately there were 2 European scholars who took an interest in Bab’s movement and wrote about it. Comte de Gobineau in the French Legation was in Teheran 5 years after Bab was put to death and gathered first-hand information about the babist movement.

Dr E. G. Browne of Cambridge University showed an interest in Babism and reached Teheran in 1887 and traveled around the country getting intimate information about the movement. He published his travels in “A Year Amongst the Persians”, and several articles in the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society. He met with the rival claimants to the headship of the Babi movement, SubhiAzal and Bahaullah a number of times. He translated “A Traveller’s Narative” written by Abdul Baha, son of Bahaullah, translation of the “New History”. He published the Persian text of the Nuqtatul Kaf which show some details of the events of the years 1844-1851 and “Materials for the Study of the Babi Religion”.

And William McElwee Miller’s Bahaism, Its Origin, History and Teachings serve as a good account of stitching all these information together.

a) The Bab appointed successor is Subh-i-Azal, the 13-years junior half brother of Bahaullah. Subh-i-Azal was acknowledged as the Head for more than a decade including his brother Baha.

b) The Bab was expecting the next manifestation at least 1000 years later , not decades. The Bab obviously know who Baha is. But he didn’t picked him as the successor or identified Baha in anyway as the next manifestation. Bab consider himself one of the manifestations. The Bahai management has reduced the Bab as the precursor of Bahaullah and denying him the manifestation credential.

c) Bahaullah eventually usurped Subh-i-Azal headship and claim for himself as the next manifestation. Most Bahai literature today has minimal content of Subh-i-Azal.

d) Bab’s vision of the Babi’s world is vastly different from that of Bahaullah. Talk about this god’s manifestations short attention span or extreme forgetfulness.

e)Abdul Baha the successor of Bahaullah got rid of Ghusn-i-Akbar aka Muhammad Ali who was named as the second successor after AbdulBaha by Bahaullah himself. (Mohammed Ali is one of the half siblings of AbdulBaha.) Muhammad Ali objected to the self-claim of AbdulBaha of moral perfection and infallibility. Getting rid of competition is a recurring theme. Anyone interested may google and read “A Lost History of the Bahai Faith”. That is an account of Mohammed Ali’s story from one of his descendants.

f)AbdulBaha appointed his own grandson Shoghi Effendi to be his successor instead of Mohammed Ali and given the title “Guardian” of the faith. Shoghi Effendi had no children and died suddenly without leaving a will or identified the next Guardian. So the succession came to an end. Hence, any management from that time is illegitimate as the chain of succession has been broken. Anyway, the management elected itself and call itself Universal House of Justice and empowered itself to speak for god. So anything we now hear from the Bahai Faith come comes from an illegitimate institution.

There are more controversies but this is a brief of some of what I have gathered. I may be wrong and can be corrected. All you need to do is just bring forth the evidence that all this is indeed “hogwash”. The internet is awashed with all these stories about the history of the Bahai Faith. If all these are wrong, you have an excellent opportunity to point-by-point rebut all these allegations. Using real facts not symbolism if you can.

Simply put Eric, you are a visitor to Baha’i hate websites…how very Catholic of you

How Bahai of you to accuse me of visiting Bahai hate websites. Actually I wouldn’t know of any Bahai hate websites. Which one should I visit? But I did read up very old books on the Bahai faith some of which I have mentioned above. And I did read up opinions of Christians who may have interactions with Bahais or may have researched on the Bahai faith. I also visited your Bahai website previously so that I can see for myself what you are teaching. Those that are critical of the Bahai Faith asked some very good questions which I thought ought to be critically responded. Looks like I was wrong. The intolerance of having disagreeing views is so telling in Bahai history.

 

[worldcitizen]

I’ve already posted this link with the answer from the Research Department of the Universal House of Justice… Regarding editing of Baha’u’llah and the New Era.

bahai-library.com/uhj_prophecy_daniel_esslemont

 

[Servant19]

And William McElwee Miller’s Bahaism, Its Origin, History and Teachings serve as a good account of stitching all these information together.

There, right there, is your Baha’i hate website (or book actually)

This book was impartially reviewed by scholars in the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, and this was the review:

“The title suggests (and this impression is supported by the “blurbs” on the back cover) that we have in our hands a “standard” work on Bahá’ísm … In fact what we are presented with is an all-out attack on, a merciless tirade against, Bahá’ísm, but treated not, as one might expect from the author’s credentials (Presbyterian missionary in Iran for 40-odd years), from the Christian, but from the Azali point of view…Of course Dr. Miller may argue that he and his collaborators have done little more than present facts, from which only certain conclusions can be drawn. But contrary to common belief, the mere accumulation of facts is no guarantee of impartiality.”

(Elwell-Sutton, 1976)

I will address your first post a little later.

Please do sincere and pure-hearted research. If it is a religion based on love that you are looking at and investigating (which the Baha’i Faith is), then at the very least ask for authenticated sources for your learning.

As it stands the works of evil has polluted your mind…

.

 

[worldcitizen]

Dear Ericc,

First I want to thank you for discussing and sharing and that you are doing the right thing in checking the Bahai Faith thoroughly.

I personally would not want you to do any less but throw all you can muster up to disprove the claims of Baha’u’llah and the Bahai Faith at us.

Because if it is the truth it must be able to withstand the closest of close scrutiny right?

That includes websites hostile or against Baha’is. Anything you can muster you are welcome and encouraged to put it forth.

Please feel very welcome to put the most difficult and abstruse questions.

Regards

David

 

[worldcitizen]

This is about the Jews being rejected, and the Gentiles being accepted.

It’s still a very good parable for the second coming.

 

[MartinJordan]

It’s still a very good parable for the second coming.

You wouldn’t know about it at all without the Church putting its experience of Jesus, our Lord and Master who taught this parable for his followers including we Gentiles. Gave us the Mercy to share in the Life of God. Amen.

MJ

 

[ericc]

With regards to the resurrection. I said that we don’t believe in a bodily resurrection not that Jesus never died. He died but His physical body did not rise from the dead. Mount Tabor was a perfect example. It too was a vision.

I didn’t say that you claim Jesus never died. You forgot what you claimed. Jesus categorically state that he died and rose again, bodily. He asked Thomas to poke his fingers into his wounds. He ate breakfast with the apostles. So he died and he rose again from the dead. You deny it. So if you are right, then Jesus must have lied then when he said he rose from the dead. So if Jesus is one of your manifestations, then this manifestation lied. So since God doesn’t lie, then your manifestation must be in error then.

As far as these Representatives of God you don’t agree with or say are false. Nowhere in the Bible are they mentioned by name as false.

That is a fallacious argument and you know it. What is not mentioned does not make it true. There is an infinity of things not mentioned in the Bible. That does not make them true automatically. You are not qualified to interpret the Bible. You may ask us questions but you certainly are not supposed to make ridiculous stories out of our Holy Book. I don’t to that to yours.

Manifestation is just a term. We can use God’s Representatives if you don’t like the term Manifestation as it simply infers a Spokesperson of God that’s all.

That is a huge difference being god’s agent and being god himself. So far, Bahais use the term as if god himself, not his lackeys or servants, was there. Isn’t that right?

The issues about prophecies etc. A prophecy that didn’t come true edited?? The Universal House of Justice answers this for you. In the top right hand are all the clarifications you seek. Of course it’s not a lie.

Did you also check what the other side says about this false accusation or do you just go with the side that claims a lie without first verifying with the Bahai response? Before a just judge condemns he must hear all sides. Apparently you have not heard what the House of Justice says yet already found us guilty. Here’s the link.

bahai-library.com/uhj_prophecy_daniel_esslemont

Nice. Was this refuted before the event or after the event? When was this explanation first published? If it is 1990, it is certainly past due date.

In which edition was this prophecy first removed? Did AbdulBaha said that prophecy was wrongly written and should be taken out and corrected? I haven’t got all the copies of the various editions. But if I do, I will let you know which edition it was taken out.

But the main point is not what the Universal House of Justice is saying. It is what AbdulBaha is saying. He said comes 1957, Universal Peace/Language will be attained. But it didn’t come true. So he is not infallible which he claimed he is.

And the fact is that prophecy is no longer in newer editions. Not a trace. His words in the 1923 first edition:

“These 1,335 days mean 1,335 solar years from the Hijrat.” (Flight of Muhammad from Medina to Mecca, marking beginning of the Muhammadan era.)

As the Hijrat occurred in 622 A.D., the date referred to is, therefore, 1957 (i.e. 622 +1,335) A.D. Asked: "What shall we see at the end of the 1,335 days? " he replied :

" Universal Peace will be firmly established, a Universal language promoted. will away. Misunderstandings will pass away. The Baha’i Cause will be promulgated in all parts and the oneness of mankind established. It will be most glorious !"

I compared the 1923 edition vs the 1980 edition. That 1957 prophecy is no longer there. I rest my case. What successive persons say after that is irrelevant. These people do not speak for AbdulBaha. Like I don’t speak for Jesus 2000 years later claiming he said something else. I also don’t erase any portions of the Bible that I don’t agree with.

The International House of Justice was established in 1963, after the death of the last legitimate successor, Shoghi Effendi. Past the due date of the prophecy. Therefore, how much credence can one place on the IHJ? And Shoghi being the designated Guardian left no successor, himself in non-compliance with Bahai laws that every Bahai must have a will. Hence without a legal Guardian, the IHJ stands on questionable grounds of legitimacy.

 

[Techno2000]

I didn’t say that you claim Jesus never died. You forgot what you claimed. Jesus categorically state that he died and rose again, bodily. He asked Thomas to poke his fingers into his wounds. He ate breakfast with the apostles. So he died and he rose again from the dead. You deny it. So if you are right, then Jesus must have lied then when he said he rose from the dead. So if Jesus is one of your manifestations, then this manifestation lied. So since God doesn’t lie, then your manifestation must be in error then.

That is a fallacious argument and you know it. What is not mentioned does not make it true. There is an infinity of things not mentioned in the Bible. That does not make them true automatically. You are not qualified to interpret the Bible. You may ask us questions but you certainly are not supposed to make ridiculous stories out of our Holy Book. I don’t to that to yours.
That is a huge difference being god’s agent and being god himself. So far, Bahais use the term as if god himself, not his lackeys or servants, was there. Isn’t that right?

Nice. Was this refuted before the event or after the event? When was this explanation first published? If it is 1990, it is certainly past due date.

In which edition was this prophecy first removed? Did AbdulBaha said that prophecy was wrongly written and should be taken out and corrected? I haven’t got all the copies of the various editions. But if I do, I will let you know which edition it was taken out.

But the main point is not what the Universal House of Justice is saying. It is what AbdulBaha is saying. He said comes 1957, Universal Peace/Language will be attained. But it didn’t come true. So he is not infallible which he claimed he is.

And the fact is that prophecy is no longer in newer editions. Not a trace. His words in the 1923 first edition:

“These 1,335 days mean 1,335 solar years from the Hijrat.” (Flight of Muhammad from Medina to Mecca, marking beginning of the Muhammadan era.)

As the Hijrat occurred in 622 A.D., the date referred to is, therefore, 1957 (i.e. 622 +1,335) A.D. Asked: "What shall we see at the end of the 1,335 days? " he replied :

" Universal Peace will be firmly established, a Universal language promoted. will away. Misunderstandings will pass away. The Baha’i Cause will be promulgated in all parts and the oneness of mankind established. It will be most glorious !"

I compared the 1923 edition vs the 1980 edition. That 1957 prophecy is no longer there. I rest my case. What successive persons say after that is irrelevant. These people do not speak for AbdulBaha. Like I don’t speak for Jesus 2000 years later claiming he said something else. I also don’t erase any portions of the Bible that I don’t agree with.

The International House of Justice was established in 1963, after the death of the last legitimate successor, Shoghi Effendi. Past the due date of the prophecy. Therefore, how much credence can one place on the IHJ? And Shoghi being the designated Guardian left no successor, himself in non-compliance with Bahai laws that every Bahai must have a will. Hence without a legal Guardian, the IHJ stands on questionable grounds of legitimacy.

To them he is legitimate because he speaks the Word of God … that’s the proof.

 

[Servant19]

You have missed the point entirely. I am not saying that there are no truths in your religion. I am highlighting those that it couldn’t be true across all religions. And since they can’t be true across all religions, or at least you didn’t attempt to prove it, the conclusion is then that your religion couldn’t be true, in at least in the areas under discussion.

Hi ericc,

You were stating in enlarged wording “Is it acceptable for your god to lie?”

I am pointing out to you that your God lied too?
Gen 17:13 My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

Please advise how this is not a lie from God, because I know a heck of a lot of Catholics who are not circumcised in the flesh?

If Krishna is the avatar of Vishnu, then why does he have to pray to Shiva when he wanted to have a son? Isn’t he god? Why would a god need to pray to another god for things? Then what about Brahma? Did Krishna taught the non-existence of Brahma? So how could Krishna teach monotheism? If Krishna accepted Brahma and Shiva, that is not monotheism, not counting himself (Vishnu.)

Then show me that he taught to worship one god. He certainly didn’t claim to be god which you insist he is. He worshiped no god too.

I have already discussed this in this thread with JimmyDFG (in the last page or two)
Authenticity of what Krishna and Buddha taught is severely dented.
I can give you quotes where Krishna states there is only one God and Buddha described what can only be God, but it’s pointless because I don’t know if anything I quote is authentic.

The only authentic teaching about these Founders of religion is from God, as revealed by Baha’u’llah.

I certainly agree that God is one. You certainly have been lied to that the Trinity is made up of 3 gods.

And so have the Jews it seems:

Exodus 33:20 “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

…and yet Jesus comes, shows His face and Jesus is God and we all live!

What would a Bahai Faith that is barely 200 years old know about the apostles/Bible that we have known for 2000 years?

You seem to misunderstand that it is not a religion or an institution, or a company of men that is stating these things, it is God.

If you were standing face to face with God, and you had ZERO doubt that it was God, and He told you these things, you would not question…not a hairbreadth of doubt.

So you are accusing my God of lying at the very end since Jesus claimed he died and rose again. But you have been very polite not to say that directly. Thank you. But it is a chore getting you to admit that part.

We do not totally deny the possible physical touching of a body by Thomas (He never touched Jesus anyway) but what we are asserting is that the SPIRITUAL aspect is more important than the PHYSICAL aspect, which Paul also asserted.

You are welcome to take it up with St. Paul. The Baha’i Faith fully endorses St. Paul’s teachings on resurrection.

Then why all the evasive tactics and non-answers?

We are sometimes unable to answer the plethora of questions. It is not that we are unable to do so because the Faith is imperfect, it is open to all the scrutiny you wish to place upon it. The failure is in our TIME to answer every single question.

Another evasive move? I was asking about Abraham and Moses and you bring up John the Baptist?

Baha’u’llah has revealed that just because a Manifestation of God did not claim something or did not do something does not imply that they were not able to do it, or were not of that station.
If a physics teacher teaches physics in school, it does not mean that they are not an expert in all aspects of science.

So Abraham and Moses were Manifestations of God, even though they never claimed to be so. The Baha’i Faith endorses, however that the effulgence of Divinity shed upon mankind by Jesus was greater than Moses.

This is why I brought up John the Baptist. He never claimed to be Elijah, but Jesus said that He effectively was, just as Moses never claimed to be a Manifestation of God, even though Baha’u’llah said that He effectively was.

Not really. Just asking hard questions looking for answers to bombastic claims. Which didn’t materialize despite claiming complete and whole picture disclosure. This is really not about me, but about the claims of the Bahai Faith.

cont’d

I said what I said because it shows a turning a blind eye on your own Scriptures which I have pointed out to you in this post. Frankly, I expect more wholistic appreciation of Biblical concepts from Catholics

.

 

[Techno2000]

And so have the Jews it seems:

Exodus 33:20 “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

…and yet Jesus comes, shows His face and Jesus is God and we all live!

.

This means God’s face in the pure spirit form would be too bright and dazzling for a mortal man to withstand . Man saw God the Son and lived because he clothed himself in our humanity and became a man like us.

The New Testament means God has done something new… Jesus is the new Adam, the Gentiles are the new Jews, the Church is the new Temple, there is now a new Heaven and new Earth, the old Heaven was closed to man.Jesus bridges the gap between God and Man now because he has a earthly nature and a divine nature.

 

[MartinJordan]

This means God’s face in the pure spirit form would be too bright and dazzling for a mortal man to withstand . Man saw God the Son and lived because he clothed himself in our humanity and became a man like us.

The New Testament means God has done something new… Jesus is the new Adam, the Gentiles are the new Jews, the Church is the new Temple, there is now a new Heaven and new Earth, the old Heaven was closed to man.Jesus bridges the gap between God and Man now because he has a earthly nature and a divine nature.

Beautifully explained.

And we all live All mankind must bow down to the Lord of Life, because he died and rose again so that all Mankind can live and can have eternal life.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

This means God’s face in the pure spirit form would be too bright and dazzling for a mortal man to withstand . Man saw God the Son and lived because he clothed himself in our humanity and became a man like us.

The New Testament means God has done something new… Jesus is the new Adam, the Gentiles are the new Jews, the Church is the new Temple, there is now a new Heaven and new Earth, the old Heaven was closed to man.Jesus bridges the gap between God and Man now because he has a earthly nature and a divine nature.

With this you do not see that Muhammad is the new Christ and that the Bab is the new Muhammad and that Baha’u’llah is the new Combination of them all.

I fail to see how you can now say the Baha’i concept is flawed as you.just explained it.

Regards Tony