Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

[GUNNER7070]

This decodes from the AH 260 (AD 873) disappearance of the Twelfth Imam to his AH 1260 (1844) Return as the Bab
• In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light.[18]Abjad numerology decodes this as AH 1260 (1844)
• The year of his Revelation is identical with half of that number which is divisible by nine.[19] This decodes as 2560 (the lowest number divisible by all nine digits), half of which renders as the year AH 1260 (1844).
• Concerning the year in which the Qa’im was to be made manifest…in the year sixty his cause shall be revealed and his name noised abroad.[20]This decodes as AH 1260 (1844)

Regards Tony

Hello Tony.
Thank you very much for answering my previous questions.
From what I have read in your post, you are referring to some of the Shia Beliefs, am I correct?
Could you please clarify the following?
1- ( GHARS, Qa’im ).
2- The earth shall be illumined by his light.
3- Everything will ascend to Him on a Day that will measure a thousand years.
The last one above is very confusing, it looks like it was cut from two different things and glued together to mean something else, Was this also taken directly from the Shia Beliefs too?

One more thing I would like to ask if You do not mind.
It is actually a follow up to my previous questions regarding the Bahai Faith.

Please Correct me if I am wrong.
1- The Bahai Faith does not believe in Paradise, Purgatory and Hell as real places ( Destinations ).
2- The Bahai Faith does not believe in Judgement Day, The day which Allah (The Mighty, The Glorified and the Exalted ) Will Judge each and everyone of us .

There is another question I would like to know from the Bahai Beliefs.

Where is God?

Thank you in advance Tony.

 

[Techno2000]

My analogy of Bahaism is this…it would be like a owner of a Rolls-Royce having a car expert come along and say that in order to improve the Rolls-Royce one has to add new parts.These new parts will have to come from a Toyota,HYUNDAI,FORD and Volkswagen, when this is done the Rolls-Royce will be new and improved…does any of this make sense ?

 

[Techno2000]

Hello Tony.
Thank you very much for answering my previous questions.
From what I have read in your post, you are referring to some of the Shia Beliefs, am I correct?
Could you please clarify the following?
1- ( GHARS, Qa’im ).
2- The earth shall be illumined by his light.
3- Everything will ascend to Him on a Day that will measure a thousand years.
The last one above is very confusing, it looks like it was cut from two different things and glued together to mean something else, Was this also taken directly from the Shia Beliefs too?

You might want to buy the book…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

lybrary.com/apocalypse-secrets-bahai-interpretation-of-the-book-of-revelation-p-94974.html

 

[worldcitizen]

Hi worldcitizen,

I did not see a response to this question, but no worries, this thread is smoking in speed. I probably won’t have much time today, so I figured I’d lay out where I was going…

Assuming you agreed that Jesus teaches to love our enemies, we run into our first problem considering the purpose of Jesus being -

“Jesus came that humanity might be free. Free from wars, hatred and prejudice.”

Regardless of who Jesus is, we both put stock in His words, so we have to reconcile the above purpose of Jesus with a teaching of -

‘Love your enemies’

Loving our enemies implies that we have them, thus how do we reconcile Jesus’ knowledge that we will have enemies with the above purpose?

Seems like Jesus knew there would always be “wars, hatred and prejudice.” (perhaps especially toward His followers, because what He was implementing was new / radical)

A re-evaluation of the purpose might be a worthwhile effort.

Take care,

Mike

Hi FFG,

For some reason I never saw your post until just now so apologies. Firstly, humanity is imperfect so there will always be those who oppose the truth, however, when they are a minority we can rid the world of war, hatreds and prejudice overall.

Isaiah 2:4 indicates that one day there will be peace so Jesus I don’t believe thought there would never be peace on earth but did want us not to get into disputes by not antagonising our enemies and trying to show them the path of forgiveness and love on an individual basis.

“And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more” Isaiah 2:4

In saying to love our enemies my understanding is not that we don’t defend our countries or families from hostile oppressors but is in reference to the law governing individuals to one another so if a person hits you on the cheek offer the other cheek so to speak and do not retaliate or escalate tensions but seek peaceful resolution or just walk away.

When 99% of the world are believers and only 1% oppose there will still be a need to love that 1% even though there are no wars anymore so there will one day be peace but people will still have imperfections.

 

[TonyBS]

Hello Tony.
Thank you very much for answering my previous questions.
From what I have read in your post, you are referring to some of the Shia Beliefs, am I correct?
Could you please clarify the following?
1- ( GHARS, Qa’im ).
2- The earth shall be illumined by his light.
3- Everything will ascend to Him on a Day that will measure a thousand years.
The last one above is very confusing, it looks like it was cut from two different things and glued together to mean something else, Was this also taken directly from the Shia Beliefs too?

One more thing I would like to ask if You do not mind.
It is actually a follow up to my previous questions regarding the Bahai Faith.

1- The Bahai Faith does not believe in Paradise, Purgatory and Hell as real places ( Destinations ).
2- The Bahai Faith does not believe in Judgement Day, The day which Allah (The Mighty, The Glorified and the Exalted ) Will Judge each and everyone of us .

There is another question I would like to know from the Bahai Beliefs.

Where is God?

Thank you in advance Tony.

GUNNER7070 - Thank you for the reply and questions - The passage comes from the Koran As-Sajda Verse 32 No:5- This link has a few other translations - comp.leeds.ac.uk/nora/html/32-5.html

It has been quoted in the Baha’i Writings that there has never been such a clear Prophesy as this in any Holy Book.

The questions you asked

1- The Bahai Faith does not believe in Paradise, Purgatory and Hell as real places ( Destinations ).

There is volumes of writings on this by Baha’u’llah, my understanding is there are many worlds of God that we may have to traverse, or it may be we can obtain to the ultimate goal in the spiritual world while still in this life. To me this is the purpose of the Messengers, that is to make us realize we are Spiritual and the goal is to obtain all our spiritual limbs in this life. we must be born again and after we are born again deeds and service are to become our adorning.

We do not know and can not know and told it will not be fully disclosed as to what the Spiritual worlds are but I could see there will be scales of existence which are all given under Gods Bounty. Nearness to God and Remoteness from God being the Heaven and Hell of any of Gods given worlds. In the end I think mankind itself make Heaven and Hell with the use of Free Will and the Choices we make.

Too big a topic - A link to some writings from a Bahai View - bahai.org/beliefs/life-spirit/human-soul/heaven-hell & bahai.org/beliefs/life-spirit/human-soul/life-death

2- The Bahai Faith does not believe in Judgement Day, The day which Allah (The Mighty, The Glorified and the Exalted ) Will Judge each and everyone of us .

100% Believe as we are in it right now. We are told Judgement day is the the Dispensation of a prophet or Manifestation. It starts when the message is announced and is renewed when the next Message is given. Thus with Christ, Judgement day lasted from His Baptism to when the Message of Muhammad was given. then we have the Judgement day of Muhammad closing at the announcement of the Bab (Being the year 1260 using the prophecy noted above), then Bab to Baha’u’llah and now we know this Judgement day will be a minimum of 1000 years.

Thus Judgement day is for all in the entire length of the dispensation of a Prophet/ Messenger, no one escapes “Judgement Day”

There is another question I would like to know from the Bahai Beliefs.

Where is God?

Ha Ha - I am but a wayward soul and even a Prophet and Messenger can not fully answer that question.

But from my pitiful understanding of many writings I have read, God is actually in us all. He is there for all of us to find with His Laws. What veils us is self the bad materialistic self.

The good self we are to find in our Hearts is God within with Laws. If we find this Self then we have obtained the purpose God Created us for. To know Him and Love Him.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

There is volumes of writings on this by Baha’u’llah, my understanding is there are many worlds of God that we may have to traverse, or it may be we can obtain to the ultimate goal in the spiritual world while still in this life. To me this is the purpose of the Messengers, that is to make us realize we are Spiritual and the goal is to obtain all our spiritual limbs in this life. we must be born again and after we are born again deeds and service are to become our adorning.

We do not know and can not know and told it will not be fully disclosed as to what the Spiritual worlds are but I could see there will be scales of existence which are all given under Gods Bounty. Nearness to God and Remoteness from God being the Heaven and Hell of any of Gods given worlds. In the end I think mankind itself make Heaven and Hell with the use of Free Will and the Choices we make.

There is volumes of writings on this by Baha’u’llah, but he can only come up with two words to explain Heaven and Hell

 

[worldcitizen]

There is volumes of writings on this by Baha’u’llah, but he can only come up with two words to explain Heaven.

He means too long to post.

You would have to read a book like the Book of Certitude to get a lot of information and then there a few other Books but too much to all post here.

This is a link to authoritative texts for download PDF or doc

bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/bahaullah/

 

[Techno2000]

He means too long to post.

You would have to read a book like the Book of Certitude to get a lot of information and then there a few other Books but too much to all post here.

This is a link to authoritative texts for download PDF or doc

bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/bahaullah/

But (Nearness to God and Remoteness from God) is about the only explanation Baha’is can ever give about Heaven and Hell, even though there are volumes of writings about it from Baha’u’llah.

 

[TonyBS]

But (Nearness to God and Remoteness from God) is about the only explanation Baha’is can ever give about Heaven and Hell, even though there are volumes of writings about it from Baha’u’llah.

There was two links in the post to start with, but you can keep suggesting that if you wish

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

But (Nearness to God and Remoteness from God) is about the only explanation Baha’is can ever give about Heaven and Hell, even though there are volumes of writings about it from Baha’u’llah.

More

Hell - bahaiquotes.com/quotepage.php?Quotes%2FHell

Heaven - bahaiquotes.com/quotepage.php?Quotes%2FHeaven

Many Quotes Many Subjects - bahaiquotes.com/

Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

There was two links in the post to start with, but you can keep suggesting that if you wish

Regards Tony

The problem is Baha’u’llah writings are so vague and convoluted that I can never understand what he is trying to say. This is where you baha’is come in,please tell me what new insights you have learned about the afterlife such as… Heaven ,Hell, angels, etc.

 

[JimmyDFG]

We do not know and can not know and told it will not be fully disclosed as to what the Spiritual worlds are but I could see there will be scales of existence which are all given under Gods Bounty. Nearness to God and Remoteness from God being the Heaven and Hell of any of Gods given worlds. In the end I think mankind itself make Heaven and Hell with the use of Free Will and the Choices we make.

So how does the Baha’i know they it even exists?

 

[GUNNER7070]

You might want to buy the book…

Thank you Techno2000, Thank you very much.

GUNNER7070 - Thank you for the reply and questions - The passage comes from the Koran As-Sajda Verse 32 No:5- This link has a few other translations - comp.leeds.ac.uk/nora/html/32-5.html

It has been quoted in the Baha’i Writings that there has never been such a clear Prophesy as this in any Holy Book.

The questions you asked

There is volumes of writings on this by Baha’u’llah, my understanding is there are many worlds of God that we may have to traverse, or it may be we can obtain to the ultimate goal in the spiritual world while still in this life. To me this is the purpose of the Messengers, that is to make us realize we are Spiritual and the goal is to obtain all our spiritual limbs in this life. we must be born again and after we are born again deeds and service are to become our adorning.

We do not know and can not know and told it will not be fully disclosed as to what the Spiritual worlds are but I could see there will be scales of existence which are all given under Gods Bounty. Nearness to God and Remoteness from God being the Heaven and Hell of any of Gods given worlds. In the end I think mankind itself make Heaven and Hell with the use of Free Will and the Choices we make.

Too big a topic - A link to some writings from a Bahai View - bahai.org/beliefs/life-spirit/human-soul/heaven-hell & bahai.org/beliefs/life-spirit/human-soul/life-death

100% Believe as we are in it right now. We are told Judgement day is the the Dispensation of a prophet or Manifestation. It starts when the message is announced and is renewed when the next Message is given. Thus with Christ, Judgement day lasted from His Baptism to when the Message of Muhammad was given. then we have the Judgement day of Muhammad closing at the announcement of the Bab (Being the year 1260 using the prophecy noted above), then Bab to Baha’u’llah and now we know this Judgement day will be a minimum of 1000 years.

Thus Judgement day is for all in the entire length of the dispensation of a Prophet/ Messenger, no one escapes “Judgement Day”

Ha Ha - I am but a wayward soul and even a Prophet and Messenger can not fully answer that question.

But from my pitiful understanding of many writings I have read, God is actually in us all. He is there for all of us to find with His Laws. What veils us is self the bad materialistic self.

The good self we are to find in our Hearts is God within with Laws. If we find this Self then we have obtained the purpose God Created us for. To know Him and Love Him.

God Bless and Regards Tony

Thank you Tony for taking the time and answering my questions.

Quoting your previous post you wrote the following:

Islam Predicts 1844 for its Qaim Twelfth Imam

, saying:
• Everything will ascend to Him on a Day that will measure a thousand years.[17]This decodes from the AH 260 (AD 873) disappearance of the Twelfth Imam to his AH 1260 (1844) Return as the Bab
• In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light.[18]Abjad numerology decodes this as AH 1260 (1844)
• The year of his Revelation is identical with half of that number which is divisible by nine.[19] This decodes as 2560 (the lowest number divisible by all nine digits), half of which renders as the year AH 1260 (1844).
• Concerning the year in which the Qa’im was to be made manifest…in the year sixty his cause shall be revealed and his name noised abroad.[20]This decodes as AH 1260 (1844)

Regards Tony

Qur’an: 32-5
He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end (all affairs) will go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning.

This is why I had to ask, what did you mean?
The verse is clear and I am glad that you have The different translations of the verse, but I did not understand how it was cut and put in a different way to mean something else (Prophesy).

By using a portion of that verse and using one of the Shia Beliefs which is about the disappearance of what they say the Twelfth Imam in year 260 Hijri calendar and they still believe he is a live to this day!!!.

You based all the calculations on that particular belief.

This is what I meant when I wrote ( two different things were cut and glued together ).

And from the same verse my question came.

Where is God?

And You will find my answer in the same verse.

I only asked just to know what the Bahai beliefs are, sincerely.

Qur’an: 23-115
Did you then think that We had created you in jest, and that you would not be brought back to Us (for account)?

This was my question for an earlier post and is my answer to the other half of your last post.

One Last thing.
Can you please clarify this?
( In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light ).

 

[arthra]

Gunnar asks above:

Can you please clarify this?

( In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light ).

…

As near as I can determine the source is from Mirza Muhammad-i-Akhbari in his poems relating to the year of the predicted Qa’im. The reference is on page 49-50 of THe Dawnbreakers a translation of Nabil’s Narrative by Shoghi Effendi.

The Arabic word “Ghars” is as far as I can determine related to the nominal ghayr (غَيْر) and is believed to have the Abjad numerical value of 1260.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Gunnar asks above:

Can you please clarify this?

( In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light ).

…

As near as I can determine the source is from Mirza Muhammad-i-Akhbari in his poems relating to the year of the predicted Qa’im. The reference is on page 49-50 of THe Dawnbreakers a translation of Nabil’s Narrative by Shoghi Effendi.

The Arabic word “Ghars” is as far as I can determine related to the nominal ghayr (غَيْر) and is believed to have the Abjad numerical value of 1260.

It seems hard to get an answer on this. In the replies I’ve read I seen such comment as “my understanding is there are many” and “We do not know and can not know and told it will not be fully disclosed” and “As near as I can determine the source is from”. If this is your understanding why say the original comment ( I realize it wasn’t you that made it )

 

[GUNNER7070]

Gunnar asks above:

Can you please clarify this?

( In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light ).

…

As near as I can determine the source is from Mirza Muhammad-i-Akhbari in his poems relating to the year of the predicted Qa’im. The reference is on page 49-50 of THe Dawnbreakers a translation of Nabil’s Narrative by Shoghi Effendi.

The Arabic word “Ghars” is as far as I can determine related to the nominal ghayr (غَيْر) and is believed to have the Abjad numerical value of 1260.

Thank you very much Arthra, I really appreciate that.

 

[Techno2000]

It seems hard to get an answer on this. In the replies I’ve read I seen such comment as “my understanding is there are many” and “We do not know and can not know and told it will not be fully disclosed” and “As near as I can determine the source is from”. If this is your understanding why say the original comment ( I realize it wasn’t you that made it )

Apocalypse Secrets: Baha’i Interpretation of the Book of Revelation

Well at least this Guy who wrote this book is honest and upfront .

 

[Servant19]

Right, Jesus had two natures… human and divine, but what does that have to do with Baha’u’llah.

Exactly the same as what the Prophet Elijah has to do with John the Baptist. Baha’u’llah IS Jesus Christ.

Have you ever in your life questioned how John the Baptist was the Prophet Elijah, and how the Messianic prophecy was thereby fulfilled?

.

 

[Servant19]

So they can twist everything together for me to make it fit Bahaism…no thanks.

Just like the twisting of the Old Testament to say that God is a Trinitarian God?

I think we can establish that God does His fair share of “twisting” if you are a “twister kinda guy”

.

 

[Techno2000]

Exactly the same as what the Prophet Elijah has to do with John the Baptist. Baha’u’llah IS Jesus Christ.

Have you ever in your life questioned how John the Baptist was the Prophet Elijah, and how the Messianic prophecy was thereby fulfilled?

.

Elijah didnt die so how could he be John the baptist ?