Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

  • Thread starter Thread starter worldcitizen
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
bahaism is two steps removed from mohammed whom himself had no factual continuity with Christ or with Moses.

many people do not realize that the bab was a shiite muslim who was not satisfied with that belief system. the shiite’s were not satisfied with the sunni’s interpretation of mohammed.

so, it goes mohammed, shiite, bab, and then bahaullah. all muslim in origin. bahaism is kind of like a islamic protestantism.
 
does anyone else find the glib responses from the bahia who post here to be both non-responsive and disrespectful?

such attitudes make me want to puke. i suspect the reason the bahai refuse to engage in serious discussion is because they quickly recognize that their beliefs have little logic and reason. thus, when asked a question about the logic or reason supporting their beliefs they resort to sophistry and mockery of those who ask serious questions about what they are putting forth.

then to add fuel to the fire of their sophistry and disrespect they tell us they are here because of love.
 
eddie_too said:
does anyone else find the glib responses from the bahia who post here to be both non-responsive and disrespectful.

such attitudes make me want to puke. i suspect the reason the bahai refuse to engage in serious discussion is because they quickly recognize that their beliefs have little logic and reason. thus, when asked a question about the logic or reason supporting their beliefs they resort to sophistry and mockery of those who ask serious questions about what they are putting forth.

then to add fuel to their sophistry and disrespect they tell us they are here because of love.
Click to expand...
They keep smashing their head against the rock, and have become delirious.
 
from a bahai post: "The fourth is the love of man for man. The love which exists between the hearts of believers is prompted by the ideal of the unity of spirits. This love is attained through the knowledge of God, so that men see the Divine Love reflected in the heart. Each sees in the other the Beauty of God reflected in the soul, and finding this point of similarity, they are attracted to one another in love. This love will make all men the waves of one sea, this love will make them all the stars of one heaven and the fruits of one tree. This love will bring the realization of true accord, the foundation of real unity."

i believe this was a response to my request for the definition of love as they use it here in this forum. i only want to point out that this quotation above does not contain a definition of love. it has a :“kind” of example of love, but it does not provide a definition.

i will continue to wait for a definition from the bahai.

it is interesting and consistent that the bahai either do not understand what is being asked of them or, if they do understand the question, they have no answer.
 
JimmyDFG said:
I see too many discrepancies to believe the Baha’is clams. To think of Baha’u’llah as being Jesus’s second coming is delusional. Christ’s gave us warnings and it apparently fell on deaf ears throughout the ages.
Jesus had temptations from satan which is in Luke 4:1-13. Also Jesus expels demons/evil spirits in Matthew 8:31 & Luke 11:14.

The third temptation of Jesus from satan is a temptation I believe the Bab or Baha’u’llah would accepted this temptation.
Click to expand...
Amazing how people think it’s an impossibility that He could have returned.
 
eddie_too said:
from a bahai post: "The fourth is the love of man for man. The love which exists between the hearts of believers is prompted by the ideal of the unity of spirits. This love is attained through the knowledge of God, so that men see the Divine Love reflected in the heart. Each sees in the other the Beauty of God reflected in the soul, and finding this point of similarity, they are attracted to one another in love. This love will make all men the waves of one sea, this love will make them all the stars of one heaven and the fruits of one tree. This love will bring the realization of true accord, the foundation of real unity."

i believe this was a response to my request for the definition of love as they use it here in this forum. i only want to point out that this quotation above does not contain a definition of love. it has a :“kind” of example of love, but it does not provide a definition.

i will continue to wait for a definition from the bahai.

it is interesting and consistent that the bahai either do not understand what is being asked of them or, if they do understand the question, they have no answer.
Click to expand...
I gave this definition. Don’t know if somebody commented on it. You should be able to find it somewhere.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. john3:16
 
One question for everyone.

Do you believe it’s absolutely impossible that Christ could have already returned as Baha’u’llah and you have missed it despite Jesus warning He would come like a thief?
 
eddie_too said:
does anyone else find the glib responses from the bahia who post here to be both non-responsive and disrespectful?

such attitudes make me want to puke. i suspect the reason the bahai refuse to engage in serious discussion is because they quickly recognize that their beliefs have little logic and reason. thus, when asked a question about the logic or reason supporting their beliefs they resort to sophistry and mockery of those who ask serious questions about what they are putting forth.

then to add fuel to the fire of their sophistry and disrespect they tell us they are here because of love.
Click to expand...
Mostly it is the replies we receive, that need no further reply. Yes we Love you Eddie

👍

Regards Tony
 
eddie_too said:
from a bahai post: "The fourth is the love of man for man. The love which exists between the hearts of believers is prompted by the ideal of the unity of spirits. This love is attained through the knowledge of God, so that men see the Divine Love reflected in the heart. Each sees in the other the Beauty of God reflected in the soul, and finding this point of similarity, they are attracted to one another in love. This love will make all men the waves of one sea, this love will make them all the stars of one heaven and the fruits of one tree. This love will bring the realization of true accord, the foundation of real unity."

i believe this was a response to my request for the definition of love as they use it here in this forum. i only want to point out that this quotation above does not contain a definition of love. it has a :“kind” of example of love, but it does not provide a definition.

i will continue to wait for a definition from the bahai.

it is interesting and consistent that the bahai either do not understand what is being asked of them or, if they do understand the question, they have no answer.
Click to expand...
You ask a question when you do not want an answer, as you already have full Truth.

Your full Truth only wishes to make False of all else that suggests there is more to consider.

God is all that is Love, it comes from no other source.

Regards Tony
 
worldcitizen said:
Amazing how people think it’s an impossibility that He could have returned.
Click to expand...
Hello David, I see you have had a wonderful time with our Forum friends 😉 Oh that we could give them all a hug 👍

The bible also said it would be so and yet they still wait 🤷

Regards Tony
 
worldcitizen said:
I gave this definition. Don’t know if somebody commented on it. You should be able to find it somewhere.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. john3:16
Click to expand...
God always Gives His Love, we always take, but often forget to give 😉

God bless and Regards Tony
 
ffg said:
Yes.
Click to expand...
Have you asked your Heart in prayer to Our God? I mean really asked.

God bless you always and may your Faith be Strong and Rewarded with much Service to mankind

Regards Tony
 
worldcitizen said:
One question for everyone.

Do you believe it’s absolutely impossible that Christ could have already returned as Baha’u’llah and you have missed it despite Jesus warning He would come like a thief?
Click to expand...
How is the second coming going to be like a thief in the night? The key element of Jesus’ comparison is that no one will know when He will return. Just as a thief catches a household by surprise, Jesus will catch the unbelieving world by surprise when He returns in judgment. People will be “eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage” just as if they have all the time in the world. But then, before they know it, Judgment Day will be upon them. Paul puts it this way: “While people are saying, ‘Peace and safety,’ destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape”

The bab and baha’u’llah entrance into this world does NOT compare to Great Tribulation
and the Parousia.
Description …

"Catholic Christians have always believed that Jesus Christ would come back to close the current period of human history in earth. The time when Jesus will return is given many names: the Day of the Lord, the Parousia, the end time, and the Second Coming of Christ.

The Bible describes the events of Jesus’ return in apocalyptic images.

Mk 13:26-27
And then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in the clouds’ with great power and glory, and then he will send out the angels and gather (his) elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of the sky.
Mt 16:27
For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.
Acts 1:11
They (two men dressed in white) said, “Men of Galilee, why are you standing there looking at the sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will return in the same way as you have seen him going into heaven.”
1 Thess 4:16-18
For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, console one another with these words.
The parousia will be unmistakable because it will be accompanied by unprecedented signs."

To think bab or baha’u’llah as Jesus is ludicrous, he has given us warnings of False Christs to come.
Jesus doesn’t change from person to person and to cause confusion. His second coming will be Jesus himself. Not Jesus as someone else… God is not deceitful nor would he mislead his people
 
TonyBS said:
Have you asked your Heart in prayer to Our God? I mean really asked.

God bless you always and may your Faith be Strong and Rewarded with much Service to mankind

Regards Tony
Click to expand...
Hi Tony,

Yes, though I wouldn’t put it that way since the question was very specific, it wasn’t very difficult to answer that one as an affirmative.

If you are looking for more logic see the following, but also remember to consider the analysis I posted below the Bible quotes as that would be interpretation from the Church, not me. - (now you have me doing what I do not like to do - so you are getting a lot of Bible text with analysis from the Church) Then my thoughts after.

from 2 Peter 3, 8-10 and 14-17: though I suggest reading all of 2 Peter 3 for context: usccb.org/bible/2peter/3

8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years* and a thousand years like one day.

9 The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief,* and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire, and the earth and everything done on it will be found out.

14 Therefore, beloved, since you await these things, be eager to be found without spot or blemish before him, at peace.

15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,m

16 speaking of these things* as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

17 Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.

USCCB analysis :
  • [3:8–10] The scoffers’ objection (2 Pt 3:4) is refuted also by showing that delay of the Lord’s second coming is not a failure to fulfill his word but rather a sign of his patience: God is giving time for repentance before the final judgment (cf. Wis 11:23–26; Ez 18:23; 33:11).
  • [3:16] These things: the teachings of this letter find parallels in Paul, e.g., God’s will to save (Rom 2:4; 9:22–23; 1 Cor 1:7–8), the coming of Christ (1 Thes 4:16–17; 1 Cor 15:23–52), and preparedness for the judgment (Col 1:22–23; Eph 1:4–14; 4:30; 5:5–14). Other scriptures: used to guide the faith and life of the Christian community. The letters of Paul are thus here placed on the same level as books of the Old Testament. Possibly other New Testament writings could also be included.
  • [3:17–18] To avoid the dangers of error and loss of stability Christians are forewarned to be on guard and to grow in grace and knowledge (2 Pt 1:2) of Christ. The doxology (2 Pt 3:18) recalls 1 Pt 4:11. Some manuscripts add Amen.
My thoughts:

Essentially, Jesus isn’t going to come before he gives you , me, all, time to repent.

Don’t get caught up with unstable thoughts or principles (Jesus being called something other than Jesus or The Christ would qualify here).

What does this mean for us? That thief is physical death.

So, I find my answer ‘yes’ to accommodate the stability called for in the Bible. Jesus would not come under hidden terminology not found in the source of our knowledge of Jesus, or before we have time to repent.

He is patient

Thanks for asking!

Take care,

Mike
 
i do not ask questions for any other reason than to help everyone explore the Truth. my questions are not intended to mock, ridicule or intimidate anyone. they are intended to preach, promote and defend the Truth. i (through the grace of God) have been given much knowledge and understanding about these subjects. but that does not create any kind of unfair advantage or turn my questions in to attacks. to act like or claim that it does, seems to be more of a tactic to avoid addressing or discussing errors that might exist in my or the bahai’s posts.

do not get me wrong. i am neither offended or discouraged by the manner in which the bahai refuse to engage in intellectual discussions with me or to make snide comments about me, or to make glib comments in response to my posts. for it is not only the bahai that read them.

if the bahai find my questions objectionable, the loving thing to do would to be to offer corrections.

i want to prevent people from believing in errors.

for example, bahaullah taught that God is not Triune. i believe this to be an erroneous teaching, as i believe about the others of bahaullah’s teachings that i cite below.

bahaullah taught that Jesus was NOT the Second Person of the Holy Trinity (which is consistent since he taught there is no Trinity).

bahaullah taught that our individuality ceases when we get to heaven.

bahaullah taught that Jesus did not raise His physical body from the grave and leave the tomb empty.

bahaullah taught that Jesus was not conceived of the Holy Spirit but was conceived like any man is conceived.

the reason i focus on such erroneous teachings is not to humiliate or mock or ridicule the bahai and their beliefs. it is because these are essential elements for the salvation of souls. souls can only be saved through faith in the Truths about Jesus. repudiating these truths, as bahaullah did, endangers the souls of many of God’s little ones.

in addition, if i do not address the errors, whether through questions or through comments, my soul is at risk for deliberately and knowingly allowing the errors to go unaddressed and thus becoming a party to the propagation of these errors.

i give the bahai every opportunity to explain where my beliefs are in error. i make it quite apparent what i believe and to what i find erroneous in the teachings of bahaullah. i would welcome the bahai to correct me using logic, sound reason and historical facts and documents. there can be no productive engagement, on my part or on the part of the bahai, if either side refuses to engage intellectually.

there are two predominant audiences in this particular thread, the bahai and catholics. not all catholics are as well educated in their faith as i, and for them i try to counter the bahai teachings (where i find them in error) so as to confirm them in their faith in our Lord and His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. most catholics with any intellectual education in the faith have been given the tools to discern between truth and error when encountering both in their lives.

throughout history sophistry (for example, the early Fathers of the Church encountered it in gnosticism) has been used to diminish or dilute the Lord’s teachings and mission. these attempts endanger souls by leading them away from the fullness of Truth found only in and through Jesus Christ.

for the bahai, i comment and question in the hope that they too might come to question the teachings of bahaullah and to seek the fullness of Truth found only in Jesus Christ. i hope that the bahai, through their inability to respond to my posts, will be confronted by the reality that bahaullah did not have the answers to the eternal questions confronting human beings; and, to be motivated by this to explore further and more diligently the Roman Catholic faith.

i recognize that exposing the inadequacy of bahaullah’s teachings may cause resentment and rejection of me by some of the bahai. in my defense, i can only say if even one bahai finds the fullness of Truth that exists only in Jesus Christ, than the bad “feelings” my posts create are worth it. not to mention, if my posts allow catholics to be more secure in their faith, that is an extra bonus.

i am not going to stop providing what i have learned from the successors to the apostles through the Church established by our Lord Jesus Christ for that very purpose. on the other hand, i welcome rigorous intellectual exchanges about my views on bahaism and roman catholicism.
 
TonyBS said:
Your full Truth only wishes to make False of all else that suggests there is more to consider.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...
When my car’s gas tank is full, there isn’t more that fits, and if I try, I just make a mess.

My gas tank doesn’t have to be full to run the car, but a full tank can take me the furthest I can go.

(the car parable of the reality that if there is truth, it is one, and no more)
 
i do not attempt to make anything false or erroneous. the falsities and errors speak for themselves. they do not need me to make them false. they need me to expose them as false or in error.

we may well achieve in the future better understanding of all that the Lord Jesus taught us. in fact, it has been my personal experience and the experience of many other Roman Catholics, i believe, that a better understanding of our Lord’s teachings are received as time passes if we remain faithful and act to gain it. i imagine that is not exactly to what tonybs is referring in his criticism of my posts and questions. i suspect he is referring to mysterious teachings and understandings to which Jesus was not privy.

again, i see error in this idea that Jesus was not privy to all divine mysteries and to the Father’s will for mankind and this world. i suspect that this belief of tonybs is connected to the words of the Lord in john 16 about Jesus saying He has much more to tell His apostles that they were not yet prepared to receive. as many have explained to the bahai, the Apostles and their successors have always interpreted this to refer to the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost Sunday. the bahai disagree, but they provide little reason for their disagreement.

because we Roman Catholics believe that Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, we reject the idea that He left out anything that we, as individuals, or mankind as a whole, needs to know to be saved and redeemed. Jesus knew everything a human being can know about the divine mysteries and He gave this knowledge to His apostles.

not only has the Church consistently and from the beginning interpreted John 16 differently from the way the bahai interpret it, we also know that the bahai contradict other of the Lord and the Church’s most basic and essential teachings. at the risk of becoming too repetitive, as i have repeatedly noted, they deny the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection and the Lord’s conception by the Holy Spirit and not by a human being among others too numerous to mention in this forum.

i wish and pray for nothing more for the bahai than that they embrace the fullness of the Truth found only in Jesus Christ. i have no ill will toward them. i desire only their salvation from sin and for them to join us in our hope to experience the promises of Christ.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top