Comparing the Koran with the Bible

[rinnie]

and whats the difference? joseph,st joseph…same

bosnian, How does your faith explain this scripture?

Matt 1:18 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, but before they lived together she was found with Child through the Holy Spirit. Joseph HER HUSBAND, since he was a righteous man, yet unwilling to expose her to shame decided to divorce her quietly.

Now lets stop there. First of all how can they be divorced quietly if not married?

 

[rinnie]

No its not twisted

and difference is that in islam Mary wasnt married,and she never got married…Jospeh doesnt exist

I am afraid it is a bit twisted my dear.

 

[Cubsfan]

The Koran teaches that Jesus was not Crucified, and he is not the son of God, and is not divine. Does this not make the author of the Koran an “anti-Christ”?

 

[scottm]

The Koran teaches that Jesus was not Crucified, and he is not the son of God, and is not divine. Does this not make the author of the Koran an “anti-Christ”?

Suppose that the two or three Koran verses that appear to contradict the Bible, could instead be read in another way that harmonizes with the Bible. What then?

Christians are very familiar with the claim that the Bible contradicts itself. In fact, I think it’s safe to assume that everyone on CAF has been exposed to internet lists with scores of “contradictions” between Bible verses. But we know how to work around them. We know how to read the Bible so that the alleged contradictions are not actually contradictions.

We could do the same thing with the Koran. There are only a few problematic verses in the Koran – about three of them. That’s all. It is possible to read those verses in harmony with the Bible, without breaking the non-negotiable essential doctrines of Islam. Problem solved.

 

[wwolverine]

Suppose that the two or three Koran verses that appear to contradict the Bible, could instead be read in another way that harmonizes with the Bible. What then?

Christians are very familiar with the claim that the Bible contradicts itself. In fact, I think it’s safe to assume that everyone on CAF has been exposed to internet lists with scores of “contradictions” between Bible verses. But we know how to work around them. We know how to read the Bible so that the alleged contradictions are not actually contradictions.

We could do the same thing with the Koran. There are only a few problematic verses in the Koran – about three of them. That’s all. It is possible to read those verses in harmony with the Bible, without breaking the non-negotiable essential doctrines of Islam. Problem solved.

Ok can you show how it works so that we can read it your way? Show the verses, and than show us how to read them.

 

[Cubsfan]

Suppose that the two or three Koran verses that appear to contradict the Bible, could instead be read in another way that harmonizes with the Bible. What then?

Christians are very familiar with the claim that the Bible contradicts itself. In fact, I think it’s safe to assume that everyone on CAF has been exposed to internet lists with scores of “contradictions” between Bible verses. But we know how to work around them. We know how to read the Bible so that the alleged contradictions are not actually contradictions.

We could do the same thing with the Koran. There are only a few problematic verses in the Koran – about three of them. That’s all. It is possible to read those verses in harmony with the Bible, without breaking the non-negotiable essential doctrines of Islam. Problem solved.

Problem solved…don’t think so. To be honest I am sitting in Afghanistan having Rockets launched at me on a daily basis by good muslims, so I am a bit jaundiced.

How they view Jesus shows that they do not want to dialogue with us just convert us or eliminate us.

 

[Thyme]

How they view Jesus shows that they do not want to dialogue with us just convert us or eliminate us.

I’ve never understood this. Either they care about others and want them converted for their own good and would oppose to killing others.

Or they are hateful (Jihad) and want everyone who isn’t a Muslim to be converted or killed so that they may have a “supreme” religion.

 

[scottm]

Ok can you show how it works so that we can read it your way? Show the verses, and than show us how to read them.

Yep – but I might need a couple days. We’re about to have a house guest, so I might not be logging onto CAF quite as much.

cubsfan:

Problem solved…don’t think so. To be honest I am sitting in Afghanistan having Rockets launched at me on a daily basis by good muslims, so I am a bit jaundiced.

Maybe they’re not Moslems in the eyes of Allah, and that should be the vote that counts.

We’ve got lots of bad history ourselves. KKK good Christians? Crusaders good Christians? Were the kings and queens of European history always good Christians? How about the Christians who forced Jews to live in slums (“ghettos”)? Et cetera et cetera – my point is that I reject up front the assertion that those guys are necessarily “good Moslems.” They have too much bad history, and we have too much bad history, to let that idea go unchallenged.

 

[autdrew]

Seriously, why is it that everytime someone points out that the koran is being used as justification for violence all over the world, by different cultures & people with being muslim the only common link, all happening NOW, feel the need to go back to the moral equivalence argument of “what about Christians who did bad thing?”
1st off, all those things happened long ago, the muslims are attacking NOW.
2nd, does Jesus tell us to do violence to others? No, does the koran? yes. Violence by Christians is UNbiblical & our founder did not engage in those actions himself, to justify them. Those who did violence in Christ’s name, were not following the teachings of our founder. Violence committed by muslims TODAY, all over the world, uses the koran & THE EXAMPLE OF ITS FOUNDER. So you can specifically say they are following their scriptures & “the most perfect example of a man that ever lived”

Its worse than comparing apples to oranges to bring up long past bad actions that were anti Christian to deflect criticism to a world wide orgy of violence happening NOW that are simply following the dictates & example of the profit.

 

[Cubsfan]

Seriously, why is it that everytime someone points out that the koran is being used as justification for violence all over the world, by different cultures & people with being muslim the only common link, all happening NOW, feel the need to go back to the moral equivalence argument of “what about Christians who did bad thing?”
1st off, all those things happened long ago, the muslims are attacking NOW.
2nd, does Jesus tell us to do violence to others? No, does the koran? yes. Violence by Christians is UNbiblical & our founder did not engage in those actions himself, to justify them. Those who did violence in Christ’s name, were not following the teachings of our founder. Violence committed by muslims TODAY, all over the world, uses the koran & THE EXAMPLE OF ITS FOUNDER. So you can specifically say they are following their scriptures & “the most perfect example of a man that ever lived”

Its worse than comparing apples to oranges to bring up long past bad actions that were anti Christian to deflect criticism to a world wide orgy of violence happening NOW that are simply following the dictates & example of the profit.

Thank you I could not have said this better.

I do not feel the need to apologize for the Heroes of the West, personally I think Charles Martel, Don Juan and John Sobieski should be posted on the walls of every class room in the west.

 

[Kitsune633]

Seriously, why is it that everytime someone points out that the koran is being used as justification for violence all over the world, by different cultures & people with being muslim the only common link, all happening NOW, feel the need to go back to the moral equivalence argument of “what about Christians who did bad thing?”
1st off, all those things happened long ago, the muslims are attacking NOW.
2nd, does Jesus tell us to do violence to others? No, does the koran? yes. Violence by Christians is UNbiblical & our founder did not engage in those actions himself, to justify them. Those who did violence in Christ’s name, were not following the teachings of our founder. Violence committed by muslims TODAY, all over the world, uses the koran & THE EXAMPLE OF ITS FOUNDER. So you can specifically say they are following their scriptures & “the most perfect example of a man that ever lived”

Its worse than comparing apples to oranges to bring up long past bad actions that were anti Christian to deflect criticism to a world wide orgy of violence happening NOW that are simply following the dictates & example of the profit.

Finally! Someone who understands the situation and someone who is using logic. Why is it always Christians? Why blame the past? Sure, a lot of things happened but times change, it took Europe two periods to cool down from the violence, those periods being the Renaissance and the Enlightment, but has the Islamic world been through a Renaissance? Has it? NO! And still when we try to use apologetics yet the past is brought. The past is the past, THIS IS THE NOW!!! THE NOW!

And people should realize this is not about Christians and the history. When we talk about Islam, when we are talking about their hateful little book. If Islam is a religion of peace, PROVE IT! PROVE ITS A RELIGION OF PEACE! PUT DOWN THAT MAGIC BOOK OF DESERT FABLES AND PROVE TO THE WORLD THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE! Yeah, because I’m tired of it, look at the Middle East, Indonesia, Pakistan, those places with Muslim majorities which persecutte Christians and other Non-Muslims and why? Because it’s in their book full of hate. “Oh it’s a religion of peace!” MUSLIMS CRY FOR THE BLOOD OF EVERYONE THEY HATE!

PROVE ITS A RELIGION OF PEACE! Tell me WHY ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE!

What kind of religion of is Islam? Cuts the clitoris off women, kill the homosexual, stone the adulterer, chop off the hand, decapitate the infidel! WHAT KIND OF RELIGION IS THIS!? WHAT KIND OF WORLD DO YOU MUSLIMS LIVE IN!? WHAT KIND OF WORLD DO YOU LIVE IN WHEN YOU LEFT YOUR MOTHER’S WOMB AND WHO RAISED COWARDS!!!?

Islam is not even a religion. IT’S A DEATH CULT! Look what they did to EGYPT, IRAN, the MAGHREB, IRAQ, INDIA, AFGHANISTAN, all those COUNTRIES and everyday you have stories sweet selling Islam! Look at the Middle East and India, bombs go off, death chants are being screamed, Muslims SCREAM FOR BLOOD, DEATH, SHARIA!!

Look at them, they think that they are better than us.

And the US, IT’S MUSLIMS WHO WANT SHARIA FOR THE NATION! IT’S MUSLIMS WHO DEMAND SHARIA EVERYWHERE, WE’RE NOT FORCING THEM TO COME TO ANY WESTERN NATION, IF THEY WANT SHARIA, THEY CAN GO BACK AND LIVE UNDER SHARIA!

LET THEM PROVE IS A RELIGION OF PEACE! LET THEM PROVE IT IS A RELIGION OF PEACE! MUSLIMS! PUT DOWN YOUR LITTLE BOOK OF HATE AND PROVE ME ITS A RELIGION OF PEACE! SHOW THE WORLD ITS A RELIGION OF PEACE! I CAN READ CHAPTER AND VERSE AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT PAGE AFTER PAGE AFTER PAGE ITS ALL THE SAME! KILL THE INFIDEL! OPPRESS WOMEN BECAUSE THEY ARE PROPERTY AND ANIMALS! RELIGION OF PIECE? RELIGION OF HATE!

PROVE ITS A RELIGION OF PEACE! PROVE TO THE WORLD ITS A RELIGION OF PEACE!!!

 

[AlbinoLove]

Just to let you know there already trying to in force Sharia law in the state i live in… Sharia has already come into Miami Florida & is creeping into the states. if your against Muslims your a racists now. & the Panhandle Panama City where I live are protesting the law now. Sharia law is already in Miami but is spreading across Florida slowly but Surely…

 

[Cubsfan]

I believe that the concept of the American system of government and Islam are absolutely incompatible. There is no way a representative democracy such as ours could have sprung from a moslem civilization.

I am not saying that the followers of Islam can’t practice their faith, but, I implore all christians to be able to engage lies and deceit with truth, and prayer.

One thing we cannot do is give into hate. Burning Korans is stupid, buring charcoal and grilling brats now thats a loving gesture, but I digress.

Bottom line is the Catholic Church is right and Islam is wrong, but, saying this to a Moslem is not going to convert them.

 

[Kitsune633]

I believe that the concept of the American system of government and Islam are absolutely incompatible. There is no way a representative democracy such as ours could have sprung from a moslem civilization.

I am not saying that the followers of Islam can’t practice their faith, but, I implore all christians to be able to engage lies and deceit with truth, and prayer.

One thing we cannot do is give into hate. Burning Korans is stupid, buring charcoal and grilling brats now thats a loving gesture, but I digress.

Bottom line is the Catholic Church is right and Islam is wrong, but, saying this to a Moslem is not going to convert them.

Convert them? They’re not gonna bother, they’re gonna come up with their excuses, and believing that child molesting pirate that if the Bible is corrupted, then its corrupted, they’re warped minds aren’t gonna listen to logic and reason so why bother trying to convert them? Why should we respect them if they can’t respect us?

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Why should we respect them if they can’t respect us?

Because while I was a God-hating, blasphemy spewing child of wrath…God made me alive in Christ. What excuse, then, do I have to be unmerciful to other children of wrath?

You’re absolutely right that a lot of Muslims are hostile to the message, but all of mankind is hostile to the Gospel. Muslims just have their particular reasons and happen to be louder about it than most, which makes evangelism towards them particularly more frustrating compared to other groups. However, we are given a call to preach the gospel to all nations, which would by extension include the countries where Islam exists, either in the minority or majority.

We aren’t called to win numbers, but we are called to plant and water. God will cause the growth, and He will know His sheep, and His sheep will hear his voice. Many who bow their knee to Christ out of reverence on the Day of Life and Judgment will be those who at one point in their life bowed to Mecca at the commands of a false prophet, but then received the mercy of Christ and died with their life hidden with Him in God.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

Suppose that the two or three Koran verses that appear to contradict the Bible, could instead be read in another way that harmonizes with the Bible. What then?

Christians are very familiar with the claim that the Bible contradicts itself. In fact, I think it’s safe to assume that everyone on CAF has been exposed to internet lists with scores of “contradictions” between Bible verses. But we know how to work around them. We know how to read the Bible so that the alleged contradictions are not actually contradictions.

We could do the same thing with the Koran. There are only a few problematic verses in the Koran – about three of them. That’s all. It is possible to read those verses in harmony with the Bible, without breaking the non-negotiable essential doctrines of Islam. Problem solved.

You honestly believe there are only three problematic verses in the koran? And all that is needed is to read them “in harmony with the Bible etc etc” and all will be well in the world?

If anything when a Christian approaches islam one thing he or she must keep in mind is that islam is an elaborate arguement against Judeo-Christianity. Islam is an elaborate argument because it’s complex, it doesn’t simply flat out deny some truth (like atheism), it partially agrees with it while unsuspectingly denying some greater Truth. What is more important is not what it agrees on it, it is what it being denied. Because it uses what it partially agrees with to hide behind what it is denying. For instance in islam Jesus is a person, and is a prophet, he the son of Mary but is not The Son of God. While koran might mention some the people and stories from The Bible it only agrees in name only not the call & purpose of the person the stories have an alternative spin to them.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

While koran might mention some the people and stories from The Bible it only agrees in name only not the call & purpose of the person the stories have an alternative spin to them.

I once asked a Muslim on this forum to show me one verse in the Quran which directly quoted the Bible. The best he could do was one verse of the Quran which might have, sort of, in a vague way, kind of, referenced one verse in the Psalms. That was it. There is absolutely, positively zero references to the supposed “previous revelations” mentioned of in the Quran.

When Christ spoke in the gospels, He quoted the Old Testament extensively. When the apostles spoke in their ministry through Acts and the epistles, they quoted the Old Testament extensively (some chapters of Romans have twelve Old Testament citations alone). I’m not saying “the more Old Testament references you have the better,” but I am saying that the people of the New Testament knew their Old Testament scripture, and they quoted it to prove who they were and who Christ was. Now here comes the Quran, a book which claims to be in line with the revelations of the Torat (Torah) and Injil (Gospel), yet cannot at least once quote what came before. No where is the supposed Torah or Gospel quoted. Everything is a brand new revelation. If the Quran is supposedly a book from God on par with the Bible, then why did God and His followers randomly change their method of revelation as found in Christ and the New Testament in general? This is a major factor (though not the only one) that makes the two books completely incompatible.

 

[scottm]

You honestly believe there are only three problematic verses in the koran? And all that is needed is to read them “in harmony with the Bible etc etc” and all will be well in the world?

Or some small number, yes. Absolutely yes. And those small number of verses can be interpreted in a reasonable way that harmonizes with the Bible.

Analogy: We have Orthodox fighting Roman Catholics. And we also have Orthodox holding hands with Roman Catholics in friendship. Which group is more right: the pair that fights, or the pair that gets along as friends?

Start with the non-negotiable essentials of Christianity. You probably have never tried to list them. Then list the non-negotiable essentials of Islam. You probably have never tried. You probably are not even qualified to do it. Then read the Koran in chronological order (not cover-to-cover order) through the lens of “this is Abraham and Moses talking.” You haven’t done that.

I’ve seen too many books written by Moslems that misconstrue Christianity. I’ve read outright lies about Christianity in Islamic books. I am very, very careful to not do the same thing from the other direction with any religion.

 

[autdrew]

From all I have learned about Islam, there are some things that I can list that are solid, any Muslims here, please feel free to add/correct.

1. There is no God but allah
2. Mohammad is his prophet.
3. The koran is the literal word of God given directly through the angel Gabriel & as such, is unable to be changed, reinterpreted,updated or criticized. It is the final declaration of God to the people & is perfect in everyway, some consider it to be a miracle.
4. Mohammad is the most perfect example of a man who has ever lived, he is the final prophet of God, all that he did & said is worthy of imitation.You are not allowed to question or criticize him or any of his actions, because to do so would be an insult to him, God & islam.
   5.To be a muslim you have to recite the (I think it is called) shehada, essentially 1&2.
5. There are 5 pillars of islam which include prayer 5 times a day, paying alms, observing Ramadan, making a Hajj if one is able to.
   7.There are 4 schools of islamic jurisprudence from which modern scholars derive their writings regarding everything from which hand you eat with to which direction you are buried in. Itjihad has been closed for centuries because all the questions regarding the implementation were answered. I think this is why it has been very hard to advance the idea of reinterpretation toward spiritual rather than literal.
   8.Muslims not only follow the koran but various hadiths or traditions of the profit. These were collected by those who knew him & decided which ones could be considered authentic. However, there is not 100% agreement about these as some sects consider some more than others.
   9.God is not to be tied down in any way, he is able to do all. We cannot expect God to operate with any reason or logic & to do so is an insult. This leads to having two contradictory statements & believing both to be true because this is what the profit has said came from God.God does not love in the human, paternal way, he does not have a wife, he does not have a partner, he does not have a son. The Jews & Christians were given their scriptures but they corrupted them & only islam is the religion of God. Because it is the only religion of God, it must be the religion of the world. Where islam is dominant, sharia is supposed to be the law of the land, there is no separation of mosque & state.It is an overarching system.

Those are the main, unchangeable things I can think of. As I said, please correct me if I am wrong or add more.

 

[rinnie]

Suppose that the two or three Koran verses that appear to contradict the Bible, could instead be read in another way that harmonizes with the Bible. What then?

Christians are very familiar with the claim that the Bible contradicts itself. In fact, I think it’s safe to assume that everyone on CAF has been exposed to internet lists with scores of “contradictions” between Bible verses. But we know how to work around them. We know how to read the Bible so that the alleged contradictions are not actually contradictions.

We could do the same thing with the Koran. There are only a few problematic verses in the Koran – about three of them. That’s all. It is possible to read those verses in harmony with the Bible, without breaking the non-negotiable essential doctrines of Islam. Problem solved.

I disagree with you. Let me quote you something.

Quote: Jesus is nothing but a servant whom We bestowed favor. We made him an expample for the Children of Israel. (43:59). uquote.

I have a problem with this. BIG PROBLEM. And I do not see how it is a contradiction. It is an outward Problem let me say.

I could understand if this were said of Abraham, Noah, Moses. Even the Blessed Mother. BUt I am sorry not the Son of God.

Jesus is not a mere servant. Jesus is the Messiah. The Savior of the world. Jesus is One in Being with the Father.

Try this one on for size. Let me know what you think of this one.

He who refuses to believe in all the prophets, therefore in Muhammad, cannot enter paradise. (how do you get around that one?)

How about this one?

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal fo the prophets (33:40).

You must understand the Qur’an speaks of the Bible in high regard by Muslims do not read the bible. The Muslim people never use biblical texts or Gosples in their official prayers. They know the bible only through the Qur’an.