Concept of hell

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IV. Hell

1033
We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

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Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna,” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

1035
The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036
The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619

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God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

V. The Last Judgment

1038
The resurrection of all the dead, "of both the just and the unjust,"623 will precede the Last Judgment. This will be "the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man’s] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."624 Then Christ will come "in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."625

1039
In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man’s relationship with God will be laid bare.626 The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life:

All that the wicked do is recorded, and they do not know. When “our God comes, he does not keep silence.”. . . he will turn towards those at his left hand: . . . "I placed my poor little ones on earth for you. I as their head was seated in heaven at the right hand of my Father—but on earth my members were suffering, my members on earth were in need. If you gave anything to my members, what you gave would reach their Head. Would that you had known that my little ones were in need when I placed them on earth for you and appointed them your stewards to bring your good works into my treasury. But you have placed nothing in their hands; therefore you have found nothing in my presence."627

1040
The Last Judgment will come when Christ returns in glory. Only the Father knows the day and the hour; only he determines the moment of its coming. Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history. We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvellous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end. The Last Judgment will reveal that God’s justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God’s love is stronger than death.628

1041
The message of the Last Judgment calls men to conversion while God is still giving them "the acceptable time, . . . the day of salvation."629 It inspires a holy fear of God and commits them to the justice of the Kingdom of God. It proclaims the “blessed hope” of the Lord’s return, when he will come "to be glorified in his saints, and to be marvelled at in all who have believed."630

Love of Christ Nancy:thumbsup:
 
I don’t see a cop-out at all.

I withdrew my faith due to his lack of existence. And even if he did exist, the theology requires me to believe, love and worship someone like that. I can’t do it.

Yeah, of course it did occur to me, and I evaluated my motives and requests and saw that worse and worse things were happening the more we followed the rules. I used to be full of faith, but the more I searched and implored, the more I realized god wasn’t there to begin with. Like I said…my search for god lead me to realize that he’s not there.

I think I sound more like the kid who realized that the whole game had been a farce, that the players and the field were mere holograms and then picked up his ball and left the area…disappointed at the waste of time and effort.

Nope, I turned my back on the concept of god because he doesn’t exist.
Did it ever occur to you that things weren’t happening your way for a greater good?
Maybe because God has the can see the future, he sees that what will happen to you is going to happen because the ends will be better than the alternative.


**God’s answer isn’t always, "Yes". Sometimes, it’s, "No, I have a better way", or "Later". That’s where faith comes in. Either you have it because you chose to accept this gift or you don’t. **Sometimes, good comes out of the worst of situations.

A few years back, one of my best friends committed suicide. Did God cause it to happen? No - he chose to end his life for whatever reasen (depression, mental illness, etc.) BUT, this one act of tragic dispair led to the conversion and reversion of more than a few people who were close to him.
 
Did it ever occur to you that things weren’t happening your way for a greater good?
So the “greater good” would include divorce, broken family and suicide? Because as a direct result of following church teachings as best we could, that was going to be the outcome…until we stepped in and fixed things ourselves when we realized that neither the church nor god himself would do it.

Once again my point is proven…god allows evil for the “greater good”, yet his church teaches that it’s evil to do so…
Maybe because God has the can see the future, he sees that what will happen to you is going to happen because the ends will be better than the alternative.
The end we made was far better than the alternative would have been, had we kept following god/the church, but that was our own intervening.
God’s answer isn’t always, “Yes”. Sometimes, it’s, “No, I have a better way”, or “Later”. That’s where faith comes in. Either you have it because you chose to accept this gift or you don’t. Sometimes, good comes out of the worst of situations.
No, god doesn’t answer, he’s not there…people read situations and events and if they correlate with their hopes, then “their prayers were answered” otherwise “God is saying no, or later”

It’s just super-imposing a magical aura of mystery around life to try to soften the blows it deals.
 
if God so loved the world including offcourse his people then why he created hell to suffer his children?
Where would you have the evil people go? To Heaven with the good people? I trust God to come up with a better plan…
 
So the “greater good” would include divorce, broken family and suicide? Because as a direct result of following church teachings as best we could, that was going to be the outcome…until we stepped in and fixed things ourselves when we realized that neither the church nor god himself would do it.
Of course not knowing any details, I can’t know for sure, but I find it exceedingly hard to believe that following the teachings of the Church and having a living faith in God was the cause of such problems. It does seem like your trying to blame others for your own misfortunes.
Once again my point is proven…god allows evil for the “greater good”, yet his church teaches that it’s evil to do so…
God gave men free will – is it His fault if some abuse that will to do evil? He does, though, bring about evil to work towards good. Prime example, the greatest evil ever was the murder of the Son of God, and yet it effected the greatest good ever - the redemption of man.
 
Dear PennetentMan,

God gives us all free will, to believe or disbelieve. He would never force you to love him, he does love you unconditionally no matter what state your in when you come to Him, if you ask for forgiveness he is willing and just to forgive you and cleanse you from all unrightousness. He does not cause Divorce, or suicide, man on his own does these thing’s, but when he see’s this he can take that situation and Turn it around so some good can come out of it, so others will think, pray, change, listen, help. He put’s us here to help one an other, Why is here people to listen and help others? if there was no one for that, this world would be alot worst then it is now for alot of people, but through the Grace of God and His Children who pray and stand in the Gap for you and me, we can go somewhere for the help we need in troubling times.There are times when we all feel alone and unwanted and unloved, it is through your weakness he becomes stronger 2 Cor:12:9-10. Hebrews 11:34 Read 2nd Cor: 13:4 You are Loved Nancy
You might want to read Hebrews chapter 12 God Bless!
 
Of course not knowing any details, I can’t know for sure, but I find it exceedingly hard to believe that following the teachings of the Church and having a living faith in God was the cause of such problems. It does seem like your trying to blame others for your own misfortunes.
Sure, that’s your opinion…we’ll chat again if you run into similar issues
 
Dear PennetentMan,

God gives us all free will, to believe or disbelieve. He would never force you to love him, he does love you unconditionally no matter what state your in when you come to Him, if you ask for forgiveness he is willing and just to forgive you and cleanse you from all unrightousness. He does not cause Divorce, or suicide, man on his own does these thing’s, but when he see’s this he can take that situation and Turn it around so some good can come out of it, so others will think, pray, change, listen, help. He put’s us here to help one an other, Why is here people to listen and help others? if there was no one for that, this world would be alot worst then it is now for alot of people, but through the Grace of God and His Children who pray and stand in the Gap for you and me, we can go somewhere for the help we need in troubling times.There are times when we all feel alone and unwanted and unloved, it is through your weakness he becomes stronger 2 Cor:12:9-10. Hebrews 11:34 Read 2nd Cor: 13:4 You are Loved Nancy
You might want to read Hebrews chapter 12 God Bless!
I have already addressed two posts pretty much exactly like this one…
 
I have already addressed two posts pretty much exactly like this one…
:DThen you of all people should not have any doubt’s in your mind of God and his mercy’s, if you dont want to believe then it is your choice, so why are you here?:confused::confused::confused: Still you are Loved Nancy
 
Why should we judge God by the moral principles characteristic to humans?
By our own observations, and super-imposing your theology onto life, we are able to evaluate actions. If theology gives a reason for suffering in the world (concupiscence) we can evaluate the actions of the deity to see why the human race as a whole has to suffer…the conclusions are right there…it’s taught in the bible and in church. The “Judgment” is merely comments made and conclusions drawn from the motives and the outcome of the events described to us through your theology.
 
According to catholic teaching evil is never permitted, even if the your intentions are the best ever…
The way you phrase it, it sounds like god used evil means for a good end. I wish the big guy would practice what he preaches…
If God has given man free will, what other choice would He have than to allow the evil which WE create? If He was going to change things around and eliminate evil, we would be nothing more than His wind-up toys.

WE create the evil. God has no choice but to continue to allow us to do so and use it for good - not necessarily a good we can see, but a good for someone, somewhere.

For instance, 8 year old girl gets cancer and dies, leaving her family utterly devastated. Neighbors feel sympathy for the family and rush to their aide, with dinners, consolation, and many forms of assistance (financial and otherwise). They hold fundraisers to help with the family’s medical bills, which involves the entire community. Everyone begins praying for the comfort of the family, the mother begins to fully embrace her faith and turn to God for comfort.

Evil = child dies of cancer
Greater good = hundreds of people pray; mother becomes closer to God; neighbors, fellow parishoners, and the whole community display Christian behavior by coming to the aide of a grieving family.

The miracle here is that God DOES help us by turning our evil into good. You should thank Him that He does this for us - otherwise, we’d be even more pitiable.
 
By our own observations, and super-imposing your theology onto life, we are able to evaluate actions. If theology gives a reason for suffering in the world (concupiscence) we can evaluate the actions of the deity to see why the human race as a whole has to suffer…the conclusions are right there…it’s taught in the bible and in church. The “Judgment” is merely comments made and conclusions drawn from the motives and the outcome of the events described to us through your theology.
I am having trouble reading what this is saying, but I don’t believe you have stated why God should be judged against the same principles of morality as humanity.
 
God didn’t create Hell. Satan and his demons created it. PLUS God doesn’t send anyone there. That’s where you choose to go when you reject God and turn your back on Heaven.
God most certainly DID (or WILL, depending on your eschatology…) create Hell. Satan and his demons do not have the power to create the place of their own torment - nor would they want to! Hell, contrary to popular belief, is NOT satan’s dominion, his kingdom as Heaven is God’s. That viewpoint is borderline blasphemous…
 
I’m here to try and talk some sense into people. 😃
Why? Let’s assume you are correct in what you preach on this thread. That essentially there is no God and we are hopeless (if I mischaracterized your primary point I apologize), then why would you choose to talk this “sense” into people? If you were on a plane that was spiralling out of control to certain death, would you tell all the people around you to put down there rosaries and to face the fact that were about to die with no hope what-so-ever? That there was no God and all thier hopes are for not?
Why take away thier false hope?

It sounds more to me you are looking for something else all together. Else, you not be wasting your limited time.

Pain and sorrow are of this earth. Tremedous pain and sorrow for some. I’ve been spared this probably to the degree you have had to experience it. I can’t say I’d feel the same way if I were to be faced with pain to a great degree. I too may back away. I feel for your experience whatever it may have been. I pray and hope God will provide you with some peace.

With Love,
–Mike
 
HI PennetentMan, I just want you to know that i will be praying for you every night, and for your child, for you i pray God will open your eyes and you will use all the knowledg that God Almighty has instilled in you, and except the thing’s you cannot change and have the courage to use the gift’s you were given for the glory of God and the saving of souls. now for your daughter i pray that if you had this child Baptized that you will live up to your promise and see this child is raised for the Glory of God in the way you promised(if you did). Do not let the devil steal anymore from you and this child. Give your children at least the right to know God and then the right to choose weather they except or not after they at least know of Him! I lost a daughter right after she graduated from colledge 6 day’s later, Your still doing better then me! Think about the child not yourself.And i tell you this that You are loved! Nancy
 
Well my concept of hell, is for those who reject God. If you truly don’t love God, and made that choice then you’ll enter hell, with others who don’t love God. It’s also for those who do not believe in him.

Now I am not sure about the ones who never know about him, and God cannot put them to hell especially if they live a morally good life.

Or the ones that follow another religion, since in their environment promoted their religion, so they think they would go to hell if they leave their God

.
 
I to think that hell is a real place but i get confused about the fact that in alot of places in the bible it say’s Hell will burn forever, then it say’s hell will be no more, after he makes the new heaven and earth. So! Where does it go to? How can it burn forever then just be no more? Any Body? I do believe real bad people are realy going to that place but i just dont know if there will be a forever for them or just total banishment, and if that where is total banishment at? Love of Christ Nancy I don’t think the devil is in hell yet do you? I do think he is here on earth.:mad:
 
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