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Cheshangle
Guest
What on earrth has all this got to do with freemasonry? You tell me. I’m not a freemason.
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riffer791
Guest
@ mrphilosophias.
probably not a good idea to try to analize the situation too deeply, we cant know it all.
id love to see what Our Blessed Mother could achive in the world if we’d all just do as we’re told.
probably not a good idea to try to analize the situation too deeply, we cant know it all.
id love to see what Our Blessed Mother could achive in the world if we’d all just do as we’re told.
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pjcsisabel
Guest
IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN, I think sometime in the past the Church actually banned Freemasonry practices and excommunicated anyone who would join Freemasonry.
I also watch sometime in EWTN (a Catholic TV network) about the revelations of a former Freemason. He said that you would only know the true practices of the society once you get to its highest echelons. Most members therefore are generally unaware of the allegedly anti-Catholic practices of the society.
I also watch sometime in EWTN (a Catholic TV network) about the revelations of a former Freemason. He said that you would only know the true practices of the society once you get to its highest echelons. Most members therefore are generally unaware of the allegedly anti-Catholic practices of the society.
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Cheshangle
Guest
Ah, so only the people at the top of the Masonic order know about the ant-catholic practices of the society. This excludes you, me, and presumably the Pope and his Bishops.
So how do we know quite what these practices are, and what, if anything, they achieve?
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Cheshangle
Guest
Can I make another point? RCs tell me that your church is doing quite well, and I hope that’s true. but I’ve also heard that freemasonry is not doing so well. Numbers are falling off.
If that’s so, the alleged efforts of freemasons to undermine the RCC are not getting very far. I hope they’re not. Personally, if I were RC I wouldn’t worry about them. As I’ve said before, there are far more important challenges for Christians to face.
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TheExorcist
Guest
You are correct. Its mosly a bunch of old men sitting around chewing the fat having pie. Take it from someone that knows well.
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Job42
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I’m bumping this thread because posts #43 and #44 are AWESOME ! Thanks for posting 
! Thanks for posting
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TevereNauta
Guest
Amen to that! Probably a glass of stout or three as well, indeed probably fairly good stout.
That said, I don’t dispute the possibility of fairly esoteric—perhaps even occult—groups that seek to undermine or assail the Church…as I’ve said in other places, given the grotesque nature of scandals in the Church and the real possibility of cabals and agents-provocateurs (organized or not) I do believe there are real, perhaps even satanic, conspiracies in existence, I’ll throw out the Bohemian Grove and Bilderburgs as they are fairly popular as evil organizations right now, not without some evidence either. Certainly, at the least, militantly secular movements are openly organized against the Church.
That’s not to say there was not strange occultism/Freemasonry associated with the French Revolution and founding of the U.S.: there most certainly was. I may be going a bit tangential here, but I’ll mention that although M. Robespierre was into the Festival of Reason and all that, we mustn’t forget that even in the royal family there were diabolical influences, example the king’s brother Monsieur (who experimented in demonology—chic during that jaded age, much as it is now—and later became king after the wars) and his cousin Philippe d’Orleans, who was an ardent Freemason and principally responsible for the opening stages of the Revolution.
Long story short is that my $.02 is basically that although there probably is not a grand conspiracy like the Freemasons in the popular imagination (most are aged WWII stalwarts slowly fading away) there is most certainly occultism, deviancy, and secularism which combine themselves and operate in groups big and small…and, unfortunately, cross all ideological boundaries. The devil is, after all, and equal opportunity employer!
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YoungMommy
Guest
I agree, though there are always extremists in such groups, the masons themselves, many of which are highly respected men, NEVER INTENDED TO BE SATANIC IN ANY WAY. There ways might be different from the church, but that does not make them evil! It’s highly ignorant to believe everything different is wrong and try to link such things based only on the (often warped) public information on such groups:banghead:
It’s disappointing when people are so afraid of an organization they don’t understand.
Freemasonry is not organized such that they can have the influence that some people claim they have on society. Each grand lodge is independent of the others, and there is no worldwide governing body of grand lodges. Not all of the grand lodges even recognize each other.
I also can’t see how one could believe that freemasonry is evil or satanic given the immense amount of charity work that the many freemason organizations perform. The Shiner’s children hospitals alone have an endowment of over $5 billion and have helped thousands of children!!
Also, if freemasonry and the Knights Templar were so evil, the Catholic Church would not have copied the Knights Templar almost exactly when they formed the Knights of Columbus in 1882. They even wear the same silly feathered hats and have degrees based on morality like the Masons and Templars.
I can understand if you disagree with the freemasons authority to teach morality or their requirement of their members to swear oaths. However, I can’t understand randomly attributing evil intentions to charitable organizations based on poorly evidenced conspiracy theories and supposed symbolism.
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Georgia
Guest
Well said! I can assure you that I would know, having been master of a lodge a few years before crossing the Tiber. What I often see about the masons has little to nothing to do with what I experienced. It’s mostly as one person described, men chewing the fat, enjoying the social aspects, and contributing to charities. There is no satanism, no attacking the Church, no plotting, nothing too exciting. Many of the men I knew were deeply Christian, so anything satanic would have long-ago sent them for the door.I agree, though there are always extremists in such groups, the masons themselves, many of which are highly respected men, NEVER INTENDED TO BE SATANIC IN ANY WAY. There ways might be different from the church, but that does not make them evil! It’s highly ignorant to believe everything different is wrong and try to link such things based only on the (often warped) public information on such groups
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TheExorcist
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Johnn1
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Found a great site on Freemasons; trosch.org/bks/freemasonry.html#encyclicals
Do not join this organization! The guys saying that it’s just an old mens club are most likely being somewhat truthful from their vantage point on porch. The Masonic organization owns you after the Master Mason degree - 3rd degree, you have already swore their deadly oaths, before you knew what they were. The porch mason have joined a gang, in a small town setting it is more likely to be a powerful gang that can manipulate and hurt others on the outside of masonry. All this for what…losing the battle in the end, Church Militant, let it go. It will in way bring you close to God!
Do not join this organization! The guys saying that it’s just an old mens club are most likely being somewhat truthful from their vantage point on porch. The Masonic organization owns you after the Master Mason degree - 3rd degree, you have already swore their deadly oaths, before you knew what they were. The porch mason have joined a gang, in a small town setting it is more likely to be a powerful gang that can manipulate and hurt others on the outside of masonry. All this for what…losing the battle in the end, Church Militant, let it go. It will in way bring you close to God!
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YoungMommy
Guest
Sorry, but I feel this website is a very innacurate portrayal of the masons. I know some people personally who are in some of the highest positions as masons, and they’re definitely NOT antichrist or out to hurt anybody. I think you should really do some more research becuase this websites information is very one sided and based upon only the most “shocking” rumors about this organization
as I said before, there may indeed be some masons that are also antichrists, but the mission of the freemasons is not driven by a hate of christ. There are going to be anti-christs everwhere, however that doesn’t mean that everything is controlled by them. In fact discussion of poletics and religion are forbidden within lodges. I really think you should check out some more information if you really want to make a case against the masons because with only this information your argument is really not a fair one.
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Kaninchen
Guest
I admit this is more than a little tongue in cheek.
There exist in Italy secret societies with secretive oaths and rituals called Camorra, 'Ndrangheta and the Mafia. They are very, very, very naughty, they are not just social clubs.
Why isn’t there automatic excommunication for being a member?
There exist in Italy secret societies with secretive oaths and rituals called Camorra, 'Ndrangheta and the Mafia. They are very, very, very naughty, they are not just social clubs.
Why isn’t there automatic excommunication for being a member?
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gamewell45
Guest
Johnn1, I’m a Master Mason and the Masons don’t “own” me. They never have and never will. I never swore to any “deadly” oaths…our oaths are very much like oaths that one takes when they do their degree work in the Knights of Columbus. Perhaps your confusing us with some knock-off clandestine group claiming to be their own brand of Freemasonry which is not recognized by mainstream Freemasonry. Afterall anyone can play cops if they want to; but it doesn’t make them legitimate.
Believe what you will but try not to come in here an publicly tarnish an organization that you really have no knowledge about particularly if your basing it on some website who’s credibility is in doubt.
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kinja
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Gamewell I think Sonic beat you to it on that point already. Please read your Catechism and see the Catholic Church’s stance on Freemasonry (both York and Scottish flavoured) and why Catholics should not join.
Be blessed.
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Brian_H
Guest
There is a lot of misinformation about Freemasonry on this thread, most of it from my fellow Catholics and that is unfortunate. I would like to point out a couple of things that I haven’t seen others bring up. Freemasonry is in no way satanic, that idea is based on a hoax started in the 19th century by Leo Taxil. Leo Taxil’s lies are repeated by people that are unwilling to do research. Catholics ARE NOT excommunicated for becoming Freemasons. Please review the 1983 Code of Canon Law. Under the old Code of Canon Law they were, that is not the case any more. I would direct anyone that disagrees to Canon 1374 which forbids membership in organizations that plot against the government or the church. Freemasons do not plot against the government or the Catholic Church. They practice religious tolerance, which some people twist to serve their own anti-masonic agenda. Cardinal Ratzinger’s opinion is just that and in no way changes the substance of the Canon. Freemasons have a hard time deciding what to eat after their meetings, how anyone could think they are masterminds of a global conspiracy is beyond me. I also think it’s strange that some Catholics take the same side as Jack Chick or evangelical fundamentalists when it comes to Freemasonry considering the lies those same people use against the Catholic Church. Finally, the Shriners are based largely on the book Arabian Nights, they are the playground of Freemasonry and they don’t make oaths to Allah, that is conspiracy theory nonsense.
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riffer791
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gamewell, what exactly were the oaths that you swore?
you know that the Church excommunicates for freemasonry, so why defend it? wheres your fear of God? wheres your loyalty and obedience to the Church and our Blessed Mother? or do your loyalties lie elsewhere? understand what im getting at?
Maybe many of you freemasons dont intend to do any harm, and maybe behind closed doors others do. but what our Blessed Mother explained in her message is the fruits of freemasonry, regardless if you have a specific antichrist agenda or not.
you need to start taking some of her advice and pray, alot!
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GeorgeTheWild
Guest
gamewell, I hope you don’t mind if I jump in here.
The oaths are almost all in the Library of Congress archive, you can look them up for yourself.
Episcopal != Catholic
I didn’t realize that Mary was so against fraternity and charity.
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riffer791
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heres a good article catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/freemasonry/cathason.htm
what im getting at is and this article explains it quite well, is that freemasonry offers an agenda and philosphy that is alternative, unreconcilable and therfore opposed to the Catholic Church and therefore opposed to God so therfore opposed to truth, which therefore puts it in league with satan, who is the father of lies.
its not really that complicated.
so any loyal and God fearing catholics would stay well away from freemasonry and their oaths. especially sinse the Church has declared that "Catholics who join the Masons are in the state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. "
what im getting at is and this article explains it quite well, is that freemasonry offers an agenda and philosphy that is alternative, unreconcilable and therfore opposed to the Catholic Church and therefore opposed to God so therfore opposed to truth, which therefore puts it in league with satan, who is the father of lies.
its not really that complicated.
so any loyal and God fearing catholics would stay well away from freemasonry and their oaths. especially sinse the Church has declared that "Catholics who join the Masons are in the state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. "
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