concerns about freemasonry

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Hold on a second. It’s ok for certain people to slander Popes as conspiracy theorists and liars and bash the Catholic Church, and you’re admonishing this poster to not insult other religions??

I didn’t see him say anything bad about other religions.
Excuse me, but can you point out any post that I made supporting slandering the Pope or church official?

Read my posting history in this forum and find one post where I’ve slandered or advocated the slandering of the Pope or Church official.

I happen to respect all religions, whether or not i agree with their teachings.
 
“You have no idea whatsoever about the different levels of obedience owed to The Pope and Bishops do you? As people of your type do, you bring up a ridicalous and extreme example to support your point of view.”

And you must not let people call you “leaders” – for you have only one leader, the Anointed One (Christ). The only “superior” among you is the one who serves the others. For, every man who promotes himself will be humbled, and every man who learns to be humble will find promotion. Sorry to bring up Jesus again, but he settles that debate in my mind, you can do whatever you want. You didn’t like my pizza example? Here is another one, the Albigensian Crusade. Are you familiar with that? When Pope Innocent III ordered the slaughter of thousands of innocent people because they were heretics. I bring that up because if the Pope orders me to kill protestants, I’m not doing that either. Maybe you’ll find this example less ridiculous since it happened.

“Who made you judge of when the Church authorities do and don’t exceed their authority or even what their authority is? It is clear to anyone reading this that you are not a Roman Catholic but a Roman Protestant who believes he only has to follow the churches teachings when it suits him.”

The Holy Spirit
 
Excuse me, but can you point out any post that I made supporting slandering the Pope or church official?

Read my posting history in this forum and find one post where I’ve slandered or advocated the slandering of the Pope or Church official.

I happen to respect all religions, whether or not i agree with their teachings.
Your compadre in Masonic apologetics has done it time and again but you didn’t say anything to him.
But, a Catholic makes one vague reference to Protestantism and you jump on him.
 
I have a hard time following that because it requires the suspension of all my faculties of reason and common sense. I’m not the one trying to prohibit something, therefore the burden of proof is not on me. The burden of proof lies with the Church because it is attempting to prohibit something. If you have a problem with that, please review Canon Law. I can see why you want to shift the burden of proof, you have no evidence.
Every faithful Catholic here has posted evidence. I posted the Catholic encyclopedia that spoken on why and when Masonry was prohibited for Catholics. You didn’t even have a counterargument besides saying “they are wrong”

YOU are arguing against the Churchs rules. It is YOU who needs to bring the proof to the church since it is YOU who keeps saying the Church is wrong.

I can see why YOU keep trying to divert from proving the Church wrong, just saying it is easier then actually proving your word.

Sorry, I will be a faithful Catholic who follows and accepts the divine authority given to the Pope over some lay “catholic” who wants to just say “your wrong” and not prove it. Kinda like a child.

Shame on you, and may the Lord have mercy on you.
 
Your compadre in Masonic apologetics has done it time and again but you didn’t say anything to him.
But, a Catholic makes one vague reference to Protestantism and you jump on him.
I don’t read every single post in here and in this case I don’t know that much about the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church which is why I didn’t participate in that part of the debate; furthermore I have no control over what someone posts in here as well.

Its not my job to police this forum, however if I see something that I recognize as blatantly violating forum rules, then I’m going to say something about it.
 
TrentCath;8234329:
“You have no idea whatsoever about the different levels of obedience owed to The Pope and Bishops do you? As people of your type do, you bring up a ridicalous and extreme example to support your point of view.”

And you must not let people call you “leaders” – for you have only one leader, the Anointed One (Christ). The only “superior” among you is the one who serves the others. For, every man who promotes himself will be humbled, and every man who learns to be humble will find promotion. Sorry to bring up Jesus again, but he settles that debate in my mind, you can do whatever you want. You didn’t like my pizza example? Here is another one, the Albigensian Crusade. Are you familiar with that? When Pope Innocent III ordered the slaughter of thousands of innocent people because they were heretics. I bring that up because if the Pope orders me to kill protestants, I’m not doing that either. Maybe you’ll find this example less ridiculous since it happened.

“Who made you judge of when the Church authorities do and don’t exceed their authority or even what their authority is? It is clear to anyone reading this that you are not a Roman Catholic but a Roman Protestant who believes he only has to follow the churches teachings when it suits him.”

The Holy Spirit
Why are you so angry at the Church Brother? Why are you so eager to believe The Church’s enemies over The Church? Why are you so eager to believe in your own judgement over The Church’s?

I will not appeal to the Church here because it is clear you have totally rejected it and its teachings, why Brother?
 
“The Boy Scouts are a secret society that take oaths, if told, are threatened by death??
This giant red herring aside, the Church says Catholics are forbidden to be Masons. That is the subject you keep trying to divert and spin.”

I guess you don’t know about the Order of the Arrow. You can look it up and read about it.

No, He said they worship Lucifer, the light bearer. Seek the light young Mason!

“Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!” [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321]

Seek the light! The grand architect is the light bearer, Lucifer.

First off, that doesn’t imply worship. Second, Pike doesn’t speak for all of Freemasonry as a group. Third, you don’t know what Lucifer means do you? When St. Jerome translated the old testament, he used Lucifer, a Roman name for light bringer, as the name of a babylonian king. The name Lucifer only appears in the old testament. Lucifer is not satan, it has been misapplied as a name for satan for about 500 years. How can the prince of darkness be a light bearer? I assume you’ve been to the Easter Vigil, when the Church proclaims that Jesus is the morning star, the light bearer. By your argument, the Catholic Church believes Jesus is satan. Or maybe you’ve read the Gospel of John, Jesus is the light.
 
jam070406;8234327:
“The Boy Scouts are a secret society that take oaths, if told, are threatened by death??
This giant red herring aside, the Church says Catholics are forbidden to be Masons. That is the subject you keep trying to divert and spin.”

I guess you don’t know about the Order of the Arrow. You can look it up and read about it.

No, He said they worship Lucifer, the light bearer. Seek the light young Mason!

“Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!” [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321]

Seek the light! The grand architect is the light bearer, Lucifer.

First off, that doesn’t imply worship. Second, Pike doesn’t speak for all of Freemasonry as a group. Third, you don’t know what Lucifer means do you? When St. Jerome translated the old testament, he used Lucifer, a Roman name for light bringer, as the name of a babylonian king. The name Lucifer only appears in the old testament. Lucifer is not satan, it has been misapplied as a name for satan for about 500 years. How can the prince of darkness be a light bearer? I assume you’ve been to the Easter Vigil, when the Church proclaims that Jesus is the morning star, the light bearer. By your argument, the Catholic Church believes Jesus is satan. Or maybe you’ve read the Gospel of John, Jesus is the light.
So you believe Lucifer is God?
 
TrentCath;8234329:
“You have no idea whatsoever about the different levels of obedience owed to The Pope and Bishops do you? As people of your type do, you bring up a ridicalous and extreme example to support your point of view.”

And you must not let people call you “leaders” – for you have only one leader, the Anointed One (Christ). The only “superior” among you is the one who serves the others. For, every man who promotes himself will be humbled, and every man who learns to be humble will find promotion. Sorry to bring up Jesus again, but he settles that debate in my mind, you can do whatever you want. You didn’t like my pizza example? Here is another one, the Albigensian Crusade. Are you familiar with that? When Pope Innocent III ordered the slaughter of thousands of innocent people because they were heretics. I bring that up because if the Pope orders me to kill protestants, I’m not doing that either. Maybe you’ll find this example less ridiculous since it happened.

“Who made you judge of when the Church authorities do and don’t exceed their authority or even what their authority is? It is clear to anyone reading this that you are not a Roman Catholic but a Roman Protestant who believes he only has to follow the churches teachings when it suits him.”

The Holy Spirit
So, you do not believe in the Catholic Church? Again why are you calling yourself Catholic?
2032 The Church, the "pillar and bulwark of the truth,"
"has received this solemn command of Christ from the apostles** to announce the saving truth."74 "To the Church belongs the right always and everywhere to announce moral principles, including those pertaining to the social order,** and to make*** judgments on any human affairs to the extent that they are required by the fundamental rights of the human person or the salvation of souls***."75…
2034** The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are "authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them, the faith to be believed and put into practice."76 The ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops in communion with him teach the faithful the truth to believe, the charity to practice, the beatitude to hope for.
**
2035 The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility** extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed**.77

2036 **The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law, **because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation. In recalling the prescriptions of the natural law, the Magisterium of the Church exercises an essential part of its prophetic office of proclaiming to men what they truly are and reminding them of what they should be before God.78

2037** The law of God entrusted to the Church is taught to the faithful as the way of life and truth.** The faithful therefore have the right to be instructed in the divine saving precepts that purify judgment and, with grace, heal wounded human reason.79 They have the duty of observing the constitutions and decrees conveyed by the legitimate authority of the Church. Even if they concern disciplinary matters, these determinations call for docility in charity.
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a3.htm
 
Brian H;8234397:
Why are you so angry at the Church Brother? Why are you so eager to believe The Church’s enemies over The Church? Why are you so eager to believe in your own judgement over The Church’s?

I will not appeal to the Church here because it is clear you have totally rejected it and its teachings, why Brother?
I’m not angry with the Church. I’m simply unwilling to allow persistence in errors or defend the indefensible. If you don’t believe the Albigensian Crusade occurred, I really don’t know what to tell you. I don’t understand why you would equate pointing out errors of the past and present with totally rejecting the Church. St. John of the Cross pointed out errors and his Carmelite Brothers jailed him for his efforts, but I’m certainly no St. John of the Cross.
 
TrentCath;8234423:
I’m not angry with the Church. I’m simply unwilling to allow persistence in errors or defend the indefensible. If you don’t believe the Albigensian Crusade occurred, I really don’t know what to tell you. I don’t understand why you would equate pointing out errors of the past and present with totally rejecting the Church. St. John of the Cross pointed out errors and his Carmelite Brothers jailed him for his efforts, but I’m certainly no St. John of the Cross.
No, he was obedient to the church whereas you are not. There is simply no point continuing this discussion, I am going to place you on my ignore list because frankly I would commit sins against charity if I allowed myself to be provoked anymore.
 
First off, that doesn’t imply worship. Second, Pike doesn’t speak for all of Freemasonry as a group. Third, you don’t know what Lucifer means do you? When St. Jerome translated the old testament, he used Lucifer, a Roman name for light bringer, as the name of a babylonian king. The name Lucifer only appears in the old testament. Lucifer is not satan, it has been misapplied as a name for satan for about 500 years. How can the prince of darkness be a light bearer? I assume you’ve been to the Easter Vigil, when the Church proclaims that Jesus is the morning star, the light bearer. By your argument, the Catholic Church believes Jesus is satan. Or maybe you’ve read the Gospel of John, Jesus is the light.
In satanism, Lucifer is worshiped as a “light bearer” who brought wisdom and fought against the “tyranny of God”

Are you really trying to justify these people who admire Lucifer?
 
I don’t read every single post in here and in this case I don’t know that much about the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church which is why I didn’t participate in that part of the debate; furthermore I have no control over what someone posts in here as well.

Its not my job to police this forum, however if I see something that I recognize as blatantly violating forum rules, then I’m going to say something about it.
I apologize. I must admit I’m getting irritated by this thread. I think it’s time to walk away.
 
The historical Knights Templar:

newadvent.org/cathen/14493a.htm

THE PARCHMENT OF CHINON – THE ABSOLUTION OF POPE CLEMENT V
OF THE LEADING MEMBERS OF THE TEMPLAR ORDER
Chinon, Diocese of Tours, 1308 August 17th-20th

asv.vatican.va/en/doc/1308.htm

The following text contains a description of the actual (non-masonic) ceremony of induction into the Knights Templar:

Secret Societies of the Middle Ages, by Thomas Keightley, [1837]

sacred-texts.com/sro/sma/sma19.htm
i dont know alot about freemasonry but im seeing alot of perverse influence being pushed onto society through pretty much every channel possible, i used to think it was the result of just athiest ignorence, as fr Corapi said when you evict God from your life, evil moves in to fill the void.

va land rover
virginia land rover
 
Brian H;8234427:
So you believe Lucifer is God?
No, I believe Lucifer is a Latin name which means lights bearer. It is a name St. Jerome used when he translated the old testament as a name for a babylonian king. It has been misapplied to satan by ignorant people during the last few hundred years. The prince of darkness cannot be a light bearer, Jesus is the light.
 
Brian H;8234452:
No, he was obedient to the church whereas you are not. There is simply no point continuing this discussion, I am going to place you on my ignore list because frankly I would commit sins against charity if I allowed myself to be provoked anymore.
It is unfortunate that you don’t know more about Church history, take your ball and go home.
 
In satanism, Lucifer is worshiped as a “light bearer” who brought wisdom and fought against the “tyranny of God”

Are you really trying to justify these people who admire Lucifer?
Satanism as a “religion” is only about 150 years old. Second, I assume you have been to the Easter Vigil, where Jesus is proclaimed to be the morning star throughout the Catholic Church.
 
In satanism, Lucifer is worshiped as a “light bearer” who brought wisdom and fought against the “tyranny of God”

Are you really trying to justify these people who admire Lucifer?
Here is the text I was referring to in English and Latin of the Exsultet:

May the Morning Star which never sets
find this flame still burning:
Christ, that Morning Star,
who came back from the dead,
and shed his peaceful light on all mankind,
your Son, who lives and reigns for ever and ever.

Flammas eius lúcifer matutínus invéniat:
ille, inquam, Lúcifer, qui nescit occásum.
Christus Fílius tuus,
qui, regréssus ab ínferis, humáno géneri serénus illúxit,
et vivit et regnat in sæcula sæculórum.
 
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