concerns about freemasonry

[EzraJacob]

Satanism as a “religion” is only about 150 years old. Second, I assume you have been to the Easter Vigil, where Jesus is proclaimed to be the morning star throughout the Catholic Church.

Brian, that doesn’t matter. What matters is what the mythology of a lucifer is in the non-christian context.

NOW, I have to wonder, why didn’t you respond to my post where I cited the Catechism??

 

[Brian_H]

Brian, that doesn’t matter. What matters is what the mythology of a lucifer is in the non-christian context.

NOW, I have to wonder, why didn’t you respond to my post where I cited the Catechism??

I’m not sure what you are trying to say. You can see how the name Lucifer would be used at an Easter Vigil if it were in Latin. Does the mythology of Lucifer in a non-christian context have an effect on the Easter Vigil? The Quran talks about the Virgin Mary, that doesn’t have anything to do with anything either. I’m really not sure what your argument is.

 

[EzraJacob]

I’m not sure what you are trying to say. You can see how the name Lucifer would be used at an Easter Vigil if it were in Latin. Does the mythology of Lucifer in a non-christian context have an effect on the Easter Vigil? The Quran talks about the Virgin Mary, that doesn’t have anything to do with anything either. I’m really not sure what your argument is.

My argument is with the claim the masons worship lucifer. In that context it is not Christ.

Again I repeat myself. Why haven’t you commented on my post where I give what the Catechism says?

 

[Brian_H]

My argument is with the claim the masons worship lucifer. In that context it is not Christ.

Again I repeat myself. Why haven’t you commented on my post where I give what the Catechism says?

Masons don’t worship Lucifer or satan. Freemasonry isn’t a religion, it doesn’t involve worship of anykind.

As far as your most recent quote from the Catechism, I think the hierarchy tries to expand it’s power and claim power and authority for itself beyond what was given to the Apostles by Christ. The Patriarchs never claimed the level of authority over peoples’ lives that is currently claimed. Therefore, I don’t think some of the current pronouncements are supported by tradition or scripture, nor or they inspired by the Holy Spirit, they are modern inventions. I’m sure I will be attacked for saying that. I don’t see the hierarchy doing the things attributed to the Apostles in Acts, I do see them trying to micromanage peoples’ lives.

 

[EzraJacob]

As far as your most recent quote from the Catechism, I think the hierarchy tries to expand it’s power and claim power and authority for itself beyond what was given to the Apostles by Christ. The Patriarchs never claimed the level of authority over peoples’ lives that is currently claimed. Therefore, I don’t think some of the current pronouncements are supported by tradition or scripture, nor or they inspired by the Holy Spirit, they are modern inventions. I’m sure I will be attacked for saying that. I don’t see the hierarchy doing the things attributed to the Apostles in Acts, I do see them trying to micromanage peoples’ lives.

In Acts, the Apostles make decrees on what is okay or not. Such as circumcision and what is allowed to be eaten or not. They made law for the communal life. They guided people towards the faith and when something needed to be said, they said it. Look at the letters. Sts. Paul and John had to address a few communities, and tell them what to do. They guided them towards Christ and helped them gain salvation by guidance and advice. This is what the Modern Hierarchy is doing. They are not trying to “micromanage” anyone. They are simply guiding us and helping us to keep pure and towards salvation. They wouldn’t prohibit something if it was not dangerous towards our souls and salvation. Why do you think they prohibit against pornography? Because its dangerous towards our souls and salvation. As well as masonry. As well as abortion. As well as every prohibition they make.

I suggest you reread Acts and the letters

 

[Brian_H]

In Acts, the Apostles make decrees on what is okay or not. Such as circumcision and what is allowed to be eaten or not. They made law for the communal life. They guided people towards the faith and when something needed to be said, they said it. Look at the letters. Sts. Paul and John had to address a few communities, and tell them what to do. They guided them towards Christ and helped them gain salvation by guidance and advice. This is what the Modern Hierarchy is doing. They are not trying to “micromanage” anyone. They are simply guiding us and helping us to keep pure and towards salvation. They wouldn’t prohibit something if it was not dangerous towards our souls and salvation. Why do you think they prohibit against pornography? Because its dangerous towards our souls and salvation. As well as masonry. As well as abortion. As well as every prohibition they make.

I suggest you reread Acts and the letters

Those are some very good points.

 

[EzraJacob]

Those are some very good points.

Thank you brother. I just ask that you reread these letters and Acts.

You can think of it this way to.

A teenager might think their parents are trying to micromanage their lives by giving them a curfew, prohibiting drugs and alcohol, etc. But this is because the parents are just trying to guide them to a good life.

Or

The government enforces laws such as, prohibition of driving drunk,doing street drugs, speed limits, etc and that this may seem they are just trying to micromanage our lives. But its because they are trying to protect the overall society.

The same way with the church. Christ gave Peter the role of “feeding” his(Jesus’) “sheep”. It is the Popes job to feed Jesus’ sheep. Us Christians. He has to guide us away from things that will damage our souls and eternal salvation.

What happens when the teenager does not listion to his parents? He can get hurt, or worse, make his life harder. (speaking from experience). What happens when one breaks the law? One can get seriously hurt (Ex.drug addiction, death from drunk driving or speeding) Or worse, seriously hurting someone else(Ex. Drunk drivers kill many innocent people.)

So similarly, one can lose eternal salvation by disregarding the authority of the church and her teachings, by indulging (guiltlessly) in pornography, adultery, being lead away, etc

 

[riffer791]

all this bickering is evidence of the irreconcileability between masonry and the Church,
which supports the authenticity of Our Ladys message, and the Marian Movement Of Priests which supports the credibility of the Churches judgement on the matter.
masons must know masonry and catholicism are irreconcileable, thats why they forbid discussion at their meetings.
Catholics i suggest we let this go, pray for peace as our Blessed Mother has instructed us. masons if you insist on decieving yourselves, then may God save you.

 

[rinnie]

TrentCath;8234464:

It is unfortunate that you don’t know more about Church history, take your ball and go home.

Well can I get back in the game

Here is the truth according to the teaching of my Dear Pope. Its pretty simple here is what he says.

The Masons have their own dogma and rituals and these indifferences are incompatible with the belief of the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation.

We many not Play act in the lodge in the Great Architect on Thursday and then worship at the Altar of our Dear lord and Savior Jesus Christ on Sunday.

The Creed and the Masonic Oath are IRRECONCILABLE.

You can read this on the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith November 26,1983.

So there you have your answer there is something in their creed that is in direct conflict with the word of God.

 

[rinnie]

Masons don’t worship Lucifer or satan. Freemasonry isn’t a religion, it doesn’t involve worship of anykind.

As far as your most recent quote from the Catechism, I think the hierarchy tries to expand it’s power and claim power and authority for itself beyond what was given to the Apostles by Christ. The Patriarchs never claimed the level of authority over peoples’ lives that is currently claimed. Therefore, I don’t think some of the current pronouncements are supported by tradition or scripture, nor or they inspired by the Holy Spirit, they are modern inventions. I’m sure I will be attacked for saying that. I don’t see the hierarchy doing the things attributed to the Apostles in Acts, I do see them trying to micromanage peoples’ lives.

Hey Brian, just curious, if the masons have nothing to do with religion, why do they have a Holy Bible which may I add is not the Catholic Bible also, with the Masonic sign on it?

Just curious about that? And I know they have it because I can show you the bible. My Father in law was a Mason. So please don’t tell me that Catholic’s are not forbidden to become a part of this organization, because my FIL made my husbands life hell because he became Catholic and would not join.

 

[jam070406]

Hey Brian, just curious, if the masons have nothing to do with religion, why do they have a Holy Bible which may I add is not the Catholic Bible also, with the Masonic sign on it?

Just curious about that? And I know they have it because I can show you the bible. My Father in law was a Mason. So please don’t tell me that Catholic’s are not forbidden to become a part of this organization, because my FIL made my husbands life hell because he became Catholic and would not join.

They also have temples (without windows), altars and rituals.

 

[rinnie]

They also have temples (without windows), altars and rituals.

I don’t know much about them, so I can’t argue with you, but I do know that the Pope said that ALL of the lodges are forbidden by our faith.

We are in my family Roman Catholic. We must submit to the teachings of our CHurch and our Pope. so if the Pope says its a no, it must be a no for us.

We do not have the power of the Holy Spirit to lead ourself, God left us a Church and the Pope and Bishops as guides to lead our souls to God. We know that the Pope has our back, and our best interests at heart. God gave him the keys and the authority to speak in his name and we must obey

But it does make you wonder why they have these things and claim it has nothing to do with religion:shrug:

 

[rinnie]

Masons don’t worship Lucifer or satan. Freemasonry isn’t a religion, it doesn’t involve worship of anykind.

As far as your most recent quote from the Catechism, I think the hierarchy tries to expand it’s power and claim power and authority for itself beyond what was given to the Apostles by Christ. The Patriarchs never claimed the level of authority over peoples’ lives that is currently claimed. Therefore, I don’t think some of the current pronouncements are supported by tradition or scripture, nor or they inspired by the Holy Spirit, they are modern inventions. I’m sure I will be attacked for saying that. I don’t see the hierarchy doing the things attributed to the Apostles in Acts, I do see them trying to micromanage peoples’ lives.

How do you come to that conclusion. Jesus said you are Peter and to YOU I give the keys to the Kingdom, what you bound on earth is bound in heaven and what you loose on earth is loose in heaven.

Now how can you say that the Power God gave to Peter which is given to the Pope is expanding his power. Either You accept these as the word of God or you clearly reject them.

But rather you accept them or reject them, does not change that they are indeed the word of Our dear Lord Jesus Christ.

He gave the Pope and Bishops authority over this earth to speak for him. The Pope exercised his authority here on earth and bound us to the teaching that freemason is forbidden.

 

[jam070406]

I don’t know much about them, so I can’t argue with you, but I do know that the Pope said that ALL of the lodges are forbidden by our faith.

We are in my family Roman Catholic. We must submit to the teachings of our CHurch and our Pope. so if the Pope says its a no, it must be a no for us.

We do not have the power of the Holy Spirit to lead ourself, God left us a Church and the Pope and Bishops as guides to lead our souls to God. We know that the Pope has our back, and our best interests at heart. God gave him the keys and the authority to speak in his name and we must obey

But it does make you wonder why they have these things and claim it has nothing to do with religion:shrug:

Yeah, your last statement was more along the lines of thinking when I posted mine.
They keep claiming it has nothing to do with religion but it is packed with religious symbolism.

 

[Brian_H]

Hey Brian, just curious, if the masons have nothing to do with religion, why do they have a Holy Bible which may I add is not the Catholic Bible also, with the Masonic sign on it?

Just curious about that? And I know they have it because I can show you the bible. My Father in law was a Mason. So please don’t tell me that Catholic’s are not forbidden to become a part of this organization, because my FIL made my husbands life hell because he became Catholic and would not join.

Masons take their oaths on the sacred scripture of their religion. A person must believe in God to be a Mason, but there is no requirement beyond that. For the oaths, a Protestant Masons uses a King James Bible, a Catholic Mason might use a New American Bible, a Muslim Mason would use a Quran, a Hindu Mason might use the Bhagavad Gita, etc. The Masonic Bible is a King James Bible because Freemasonry as it now exists was formed in 17th and 18th century England, a protestant country. I would estimate that the majority of Masons are protestant. A witness in Court might take on oath on a Bible, a Catholic witness might have to take an oath to tell the truth on a King James Bible, that doesn’t make a Court a religious institution. Masonry is a fraternity, there are no dogmas. It isn’t a religion. The current criticisms against Masonry by some people within the Church are that Masonry is a naturalist religion and that it fosters religious indifference. I disagree with those conclusions based upon the facts, because both those arguments lack merit and ignore reality. Masonry encourages individual Masons to put their religion, whatever it might be, as well as their family, before Masonry. The Church’s argument equates tolerance with indifference. If the Church wants to be consistent then membership in Boy Scouts and other non-denominational civic groups should also be prohibited. Canon 1374 does not prohibit membership in Masonry, only groups that conspire against the Church or the government. Every priest I have talked to has told me that Catholics can become Masons. Cardinal Ratzinger was relentless in his opposition to Masonry prior to becoming Pope. His opinions about Masonry are wrong and without merit. I’m not sure why he was such hostility towards Masonry.

 

[Brian_H]

I don’t know much about them, so I can’t argue with you, but I do know that the Pope said that ALL of the lodges are forbidden by our faith.

We are in my family Roman Catholic. We must submit to the teachings of our CHurch and our Pope. so if the Pope says its a no, it must be a no for us.

We do not have the power of the Holy Spirit to lead ourself, God left us a Church and the Pope and Bishops as guides to lead our souls to God. We know that the Pope has our back, and our best interests at heart. God gave him the keys and the authority to speak in his name and we must obey

But it does make you wonder why they have these things and claim it has nothing to do with religion:shrug:

The Church has been wrong in the past when it has acted beyond the guidance provided by the Holy Spirit. Example, the universe revolves around the earth. I don’t know that the clergy always have our best interests at heart, just look at the sex abuse scandal. Many high ranking Church officials, Cardinal Rigali, Cardinal Law, Cardinal Mahoney, to list a few, put their careers, the Church’s image, and the Church’s assets ahead of protecting people. The Church hierarchy has marginalized those that put people first and have tried to help victims.

I received the Holy Spirit at Conformation, I don’t think you can argue that the Holy Spirit effects people differently.

 

[Brian_H]

How do you come to that conclusion. Jesus said you are Peter and to YOU I give the keys to the Kingdom, what you bound on earth is bound in heaven and what you loose on earth is loose in heaven.

Now how can you say that the Power God gave to Peter which is given to the Pope is expanding his power. Either You accept these as the word of God or you clearly reject them.

But rather you accept them or reject them, does not change that they are indeed the word of Our dear Lord Jesus Christ.

He gave the Pope and Bishops authority over this earth to speak for him. The Pope exercised his authority here on earth and bound us to the teaching that freemason is forbidden.

Jesus said YOU not you and everyone that comes after you. Jesus didn’t say the anyone would inherit the power he gave to Peter. Jesus didn’t give that authority to the other Apostles (the bishops). I don’t think you can claim the Church hierarchy has limitless authority based upon “what you bound on earth is bound in heaven and what you loose on earth is loose in heaven”.

 

[jam070406]

Masons take their oaths on the sacred scripture of their religion. A person must believe in God to be a Mason, but there is no requirement beyond that. For the oaths, a Protestant Masons uses a King James Bible, a Catholic Mason might use a New American Bible, a Muslim Mason would use a Quran, a Hindu Mason might use the Bhagavad Gita, etc. The Masonic Bible is a King James Bible because Freemasonry as it now exists was formed in 17th and 18th century England, a protestant country. I would estimate that the majority of Masons are protestant. A witness in Court might take on oath on a Bible, a Catholic witness might have to take an oath to tell the truth on a King James Bible, that doesn’t make a Court a religious institution. Masonry is a fraternity, there are no dogmas. It isn’t a religion. The current criticisms against Masonry by some people within the Church are that Masonry is a naturalist religion and that it fosters religious indifference. I disagree with those conclusions based upon the facts, because both those arguments lack merit and ignore reality. Masonry encourages individual Masons to put their religion, whatever it might be, as well as their family, before Masonry. The Church’s argument equates tolerance with indifference. If the Church wants to be consistent then membership in Boy Scouts and other non-denominational civic groups should also be prohibited. Canon 1374 does not prohibit membership in Masonry, only groups that conspire against the Church or the government. Every priest I have talked to has told me that Catholics can become Masons. Cardinal Ratzinger was relentless in his opposition to Masonry prior to becoming Pope. His opinions about Masonry are wrong and without merit. I’m not sure why he was such hostility towards Masonry.

You know better then all the Popes and Bishops that have spoken on this issue?

 

[jam070406]

Jesus said YOU not you and everyone that comes after you. Jesus didn’t say the anyone would inherit the power he gave to Peter. Jesus didn’t give that authority to the other Apostles (the bishops). I don’t think you can claim the Church hierarchy has limitless authority based upon “what you bound on earth is bound in heaven and what you loose on earth is loose in heaven”.

You have much to learn about the Catholic Faith. You should spend more time on that and less on how to defend Freemasonry.

 

[rinnie]

Masons take their oaths on the sacred scripture of their religion. A person must believe in God to be a Mason, but there is no requirement beyond that. For the oaths, a Protestant Masons uses a King James Bible, a Catholic Mason might use a New American Bible, a Muslim Mason would use a Quran, a Hindu Mason might use the Bhagavad Gita, etc. The Masonic Bible is a King James Bible because Freemasonry as it now exists was formed in 17th and 18th century England, a protestant country. I would estimate that the majority of Masons are protestant. A witness in Court might take on oath on a Bible, a Catholic witness might have to take an oath to tell the truth on a King James Bible, that doesn’t make a Court a religious institution. Masonry is a fraternity, there are no dogmas. It isn’t a religion. The current criticisms against Masonry by some people within the Church are that Masonry is a naturalist religion and that it fosters religious indifference. I disagree with those conclusions based upon the facts, because both those arguments lack merit and ignore reality. Masonry encourages individual Masons to put their religion, whatever it might be, as well as their family, before Masonry. The Church’s argument equates tolerance with indifference. If the Church wants to be consistent then membership in Boy Scouts and other non-denominational civic groups should also be prohibited. Canon 1374 does not prohibit membership in Masonry, only groups that conspire against the Church or the government. Every priest I have talked to has told me that Catholics can become Masons. Cardinal Ratzinger was relentless in his opposition to Masonry prior to becoming Pope. His opinions about Masonry are wrong and without merit. I’m not sure why he was such hostility towards Masonry.

No they don’t. Ask them. They just have to believe in a Higher BEING, the devil can be a higher being for people. A FALSE god can be a higher being.

But lets go to what you just said, can the devil be their god then? Do they define WHO you can and cannot worship? You seem to be in contradiction of yourself really.

Youl said its not a Relgion but you HAVE to believe in God. WHY if its not a religion?

In many faiths you are your own god. Look at the LDS they feel the can become gods etc.