concerns about freemasonry

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Hi Kinja, I hope you are having a great day. I can only assume that hearing the truth is causing you some cognitive dissonance and that is unfortunate. How else could you deny historical facts, which include accounts from Cardinals. Unless you are accusing a Cardinal of lying, well I sure hope not. Maybe it would be easier for you to just stick your fingers in your ears. I’ll leave that up to you though.
It was good to hear from you though, God bless and may the peace of the Lord be with you. 🙂
 
How else could you deny historical facts, which include accounts from Cardinals. Unless you are accusing a Cardinal of lying, well I sure hope not. Maybe it would be easier for you to just stick your fingers in your ears. I’ll leave that up to you though.
It was good to hear from you though, God bless and may the peace of the Lord be with you. 🙂
Oh no I’m not accusing any Cardinal of anything my friend. I’ll leave that sort of thing up to people who deny and defy the Church’s teachings and dismiss what the Pope or cardinals have to say conveniently if it does not suit their twisted worldview. People who believe any twisted and concocted half truth that suites their ends.
God bless and may the peace of the Lord be with you. 🙂
And there you go again being sarcastic with serious matters Brian. Nevertheless yes, God guide and bless you too and may you find the truth.
 
And there you go again being sarcastic with serious matters Brian. Nevertheless yes, God guide and bless you too and may you find the truth.
I’m sorry you think I was being sarcastic because that is not the case. Thank you for your kind wishes. 🙂
 
Hi EzraJacob, I have no idea what you might be thinking. I was pointing out that Christ’s Church (good) will triumph over evil. Jacque de Molay is a martyr and the people responsible for his death joined him within a year. See how good triumphs over evil? I think that is a really positive message.
You was calling the Pope and the Church drunk from the blood of saints and martyrs.

You sound like a protestant who hates the church and Papacy.
 
Hi Kinja, I decided that a more thorough reply to your earlier post is in order. Let me summarize what I’ve said on this thread because I think you may misunderstand them. Canon law does not prohibit membership in Freemasonry, it once did. It only prohibits membership in groups that plot against the Church or the government. That is objectively verifiable, so your claim that I lied about that demonstrates your erroneous understanding of Canon Law. Several people have pointed out that in 1983 then Cardinal Ratzinger issued a statement in opposition to Freemasonry, declaring membership a grave sin, in spite of Canon Law. That is the only current prohibition against masonic membership for Catholics. I respectfully disagree with his position as well as any Popes that have expressed opposition to Freemasonry and I then tried to explain why, the key reasons being that I don’t feel there is merit to the criticisms against masonry, I don’t feel that such a prohibition was a valid exercise of the authority given to them by Christ, and the fact that every priest I have talked to has told me that in America membership in Freemasonry is not a grave sin. You claim I am lying, that is absurd, I have a different opinion than you as well as some of the other posters on this thread and in response you and some of the other posters have made personal attacks and insults towards me. The historical information I have provided is 100% accurate, I’m sorry if you don’t like it or have a hard time accepting it. I think it is ridiculous that when I point out a fact and provide a source for the information, it is immediately attacked as a lie and as anti-catholic. It is absurd to try to have a rational discussion with people that are going to deny objectively verifiable facts. Much of the response to the arguments I’ve made has been circular logic, when I deny the validity of that type of argument I am attacked and insulted. My only motivation was to correct an error, but perhaps there is something very wrong that runs too deep. By that I mean the divide in the Church between people like me, that you and others have uncharitable labeled as “roman protestant”, “cafeteria catholic”, “heretic”, etc., and people like you, what I will call “traditional” Catholics. I feel that the use of that term is a euphemism, but I will use it to stay charitable. “Traditional” Catholics seem to want to blame all the problems of the Church on people like me. The main reason I wanted to write again was to point this division out because it is critical for what happens in the next 30-40 years. I think if the “traditional” Catholics have their way, then things are going to get much worse for the Church, that is my opinion, so please don’t call me a heretic for expressing it. You are all certainly free to your opinion.

God Bless 🙂
 
any of you (apart from priests) who are for unity in the Church i recommend this prayer
(priests have a different prayer in the Marian Movement of Priests book)

Act of consecration
to the
Immaculate Heart of Mary
(for Religious and Laity)

Virgin of fatima, Mother of Mercy, Queen of Heaven and Earth, Refuge of Sinners, we who belong to the Marian Movement of priests consecrate ourselves in a very special way to your Immaculate Heart.
By this act of consecration we intend to live, with you and through you, all the obligations assumed by our baptismal consecration. We further pledge to bring about in ourselves that interior conversion so urgently demanded by the Gospel, a conversion that will free us of every attachment to ourselves and to easy compromises with the world so that, like you, we may be available only to do always the Will of the Father.
And as we resolve to entrust to you, O Mother most sweet and merciful, our life and vocation as Christians, that you may dispose of it according to your designs of salvation in this hour of decision that weighs upon the world, we pledge to live it according to your desires, especially as it pertains to a renewed spirit of prayer and penance, the fervent participation in the celebration of the Eucharist and in the works of the apostolate, the daily recitation of the holy rosary, and an austere manner of life in keeping with the Gospel, that shall be to all a good example of the observance of the Law of God and the practice of the Christian virtues, especially that of purity.
We further promise you to be united with the Holy Father, with the heirachy and with our priests, in order thus to set up a barrier to the growing confrontation directed against the Magisterium, that threatens the very foundation of the Church.
Under your protection, we want moreover to be apostles of this sorely needed unity of prayer and love for the Pope, on whom we invoke your special protection.
And lastly, insofar as is possible, we promise to lead those souls with whom we come in contact to a renewed devotion to you.
Mindful that atheism has caused shipwreck in the faith to a great number of the faithful, that desecration has entered into the holy temple of God, and that evil and sin are speading more and more througout the world, we make so bold as to lift our eyes trustingly to you, O Mother of Jesus and our merciful and powerful Mother, and we invoke again today and await from you the salvation of all your children, O clement, O loving,
O sweet Virgin Mary.
 
Also i suggest you pray that satans plans fail him and serve only for the glory of God, as our Blessed Mother instructed.🙂
 
Yes you can; Freemasonry is open to any adult male. The one condition is that you believe in God or a supreme being.
Do any of you guys actually KNOW what freemasonry rules are. First I was told you must be a Christian. Okay is a Jew a Christian? NO they reject Christ.

Then I was told you must believe in GOD, okay I said I was told you must believe in a higher being, I was told NO, just God.

Now you just said God or a Supreme being, same thing as higher being. There you have it guys.

If this man IS telling us the truth. you must believe in a supreme being, The devil CAN be a supreme being for someone. There you have it the TRUTH according to the Pope, you cannot believe in a supreme being, that could be anyone.

In the RCC you must believe in ONE GOD, OHCAC it is quite CLEAR who you state is YOUR GOD. JESUS CHRIST. that is our creed. We believe that God is the 3 person in the Trinity made up of ONE GOD.

Now Brian, its your turn, make the Pope out to be a liar, that is the only way you can win this and prove your point.

I just proved mine and proved the Pope to be true. You show me when a person claims to believe in a supreme being it HAS to Be Jesus Christ the ONLY SON OF GOD. OR as the Jews claim the GOD of Abraham. YOu show me where that oath states what a supreme being is?
 
Yes you can; Freemasonry is open to any adult male. The one condition is that you believe in God or a supreme being.
Also look at what you youself just wrote GOD OR a SUPREME being. Who can be Supreme over GOD?:eek:

IF that does not open your eyes to the problem with this organization and the RCC nothing else we can ever say will.

And remember this is your truth you stated not mine. The Pope just saw through it.

P.S. Do you guys have ANY idea how hated he IS by the masons?
 
Do any of you guys actually KNOW what freemasonry rules are. First I was told you must be a Christian. Okay is a Jew a Christian? NO they reject Christ.

Then I was told you must believe in GOD, okay I said I was told you must believe in a higher being, I was told NO, just God.

Now you just said God or a Supreme being, same thing as higher being. There you have it guys.

If this man IS telling us the truth. you must believe in a supreme being, The devil CAN be a supreme being for someone. There you have it the TRUTH according to the Pope, you cannot believe in a supreme being, that could be anyone.

In the RCC you must believe in ONE GOD, OHCAC it is quite CLEAR who you state is YOUR GOD. JESUS CHRIST. that is our creed. We believe that God is the 3 person in the Trinity made up of ONE GOD.

Now Brian, its your turn, make the Pope out to be a liar, that is the only way you can win this and prove your point.

I just proved mine and proved the Pope to be true. You show me when a person claims to believe in a supreme being it HAS to Be Jesus Christ the ONLY SON OF GOD. OR as the Jews claim the GOD of Abraham. YOu show me where that oath states what a supreme being is?
This demonstrates why it is pointless to argue with most of you. When you are challenged by facts, you reject them and twist them for your own purposes. All some of you care about it winning arguments. I don’t think anyone told you that only Christians can be masons, I’ve consistently posted that masons must believe in God and beyond that it is a matter of conscious for the individual. I don’t believe you’ve proved anything. Let me point out that EVERY Pope is a sinner and in need of Christ’s redemption, if you don’t understand that, you’ve missed the message of Jesus by a country mile. For me, the message of Jesus is the foundation of my faith. Apparently for you obedience and adherence to men is the foundation of your faith.
 
Hi Kinja, I hope you are having a great day. I can only assume that hearing the truth is causing you some cognitive dissonance and that is unfortunate. How else could you deny historical facts, which include accounts from Cardinals. Unless you are accusing a Cardinal of lying, well I sure hope not. Maybe it would be easier for you to just stick your fingers in your ears. I’ll leave that up to you though.
It was good to hear from you though, God bless and may the peace of the Lord be with you. 🙂
Brian we are told to obey the teachings of our Church. The RCC forbids any Catholic to be a part of this organization. Do you at least agree that this is the teaching of the RCC?

Next if you at least agree that this is WHAT the Church teaches and choose to dis obey the Church that is of course your choice. But please at least ADMIT that you understand that if you are a part of this organization or tell someone it is okay, you are aware that you have put yourself in GRAVE danger and have brought down a brother in the faith down also.

We all understand that you do not AGREE with the Pope, but please at least ADMIT you undersand it is mortal sin if you are in this organization according to the teachings of YOUR Church.

I don’t care about History, I just want him to at least admit HE understands its mortal sin. As long as he knows and then chooses to disobey Christ in his teaching of his Church at least WE know we did out part to teach the Truth according to the RCC.

I am not here to TELL ANYONE what they can or cannot do, only teach the truth as our CHurch teaches it.

I think what we all need to agree on is ONE thing. It is forbidden to be a part of this organization and receive Holy Communion in the RCC for your soul is in mortal sin. If you are a part of this and were misled please go to Confession immediately ask for forgivness and become once again one in Chirst through his Eucharist.

That is all I want to show, ONLY the TRUTH as it was given to us through Christ by his Holy Spirit leading his Church. Then I did MY part, and feel we ALL did out part in reaching out the Truth the best we can.

The rest if for that person to pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit, and then from their own free will choose.
 
This demonstrates why it is pointless to argue with most of you. When you are challenged by facts, you reject them and twist them for your own purposes. All some of you care about it winning arguments. I don’t think anyone told you that only Christians can be masons, I’ve consistently posted that masons must believe in God and beyond that it is a matter of conscious for the individual. I don’t believe you’ve proved anything. Let me point out that EVERY Pope is a sinner and in need of Christ’s redemption, if you don’t understand that, you’ve missed the message of Jesus by a country mile. For me, the message of Jesus is the foundation of my faith. Apparently for you obedience and adherence to men is the foundation of your faith.
Okay brian stop right there. Is there only ONE GOD? Yes or no? How can there be plural gods as others faiths believe? How can you say that someone must believe in supreme being and that supreme being cannot be satan? Tell me? how can you say that? How do you know?

What is the Mason rules GOD or a SUPREME BEING OR NOT. WHY either or Brian?
 
Yes you can; Freemasonry is open to any adult male. The one condition is that you believe in God or a supreme being.
Is this the truth or a lie, If this is the truth what freemasonry is open to it is in direct conflict with OUR CREED. There is no SUPREME BEING OVER GOD.
 
This demonstrates why it is pointless to argue with most of you. When you are challenged by facts, you reject them and twist them for your own purposes. All some of you care about it winning arguments. I don’t think anyone told you that only Christians can be masons, I’ve consistently posted that masons must believe in God and beyond that it is a matter of conscious for the individual. I don’t believe you’ve proved anything. Let me point out that EVERY Pope is a sinner and in need of Christ’s redemption, if you don’t understand that, you’ve missed the message of Jesus by a country mile. For me, the message of Jesus is the foundation of my faith. Apparently for you obedience and adherence to men is the foundation of your faith.
Brian where did ANY CATHOLIC here deny that the Pope was a Sinner like the rest of us. Do you even know your own faith Brian.

Did you know that Pope John Paul II went to Confession EVERY SINGLE DAY? Why would he do that if he felt he was not a sinner?

What does the Pope, ST Peter, ST Paul and all the Apostles being sinners have to do with them having the power of the HOLY SPIRIT to teach in the name of God, forgive our sins in the name of God, and lead his Church as he promised have to do with being sinless.

Where are you getting this SINLESS thing from? ST Peter had sins, so did St Paul, As with all of the Apostles. What is your point here buddy?
 
Brian, please no disrepect my brother, but please stick around, bet a book on the Catholic faith, get back in contact WHAT your church teaches, and WHY and study up on it.

You have SO much to learn. But do not feel ALONE, we are all in the same boat. But how about instead of condemning our Church and our Pope and our faith, getting into our boat which you claim to be apart of, sit back. refresh your mind, and your heart and once again educate yourself with your faith.

I CAN promise you ONE thing you will be ON FIRE with the Church once again, and addicted to learning what you missed. And do not feel bad, if you stick around in one year you will learn as I have the more you know about your own faith, the more you learn that you need to know. It is a LIFE time of study.
 
For me, the message of Jesus is the foundation of my faith. Apparently for you obedience and adherence to men is the foundation of your faith.
How do you know what the message of Jesus is? Have you read about it? If so from where? If the Bible then who put together the Canon (of the Books of the Bible) which is recognized as the Word of God and the truth about Jesus?

If your source for truth is Masonic writings on the other hand then how do you know that those writings are true? How old are they? Rinnie is quite right, masons dislike the papacy. Can you explain why? If so then why would a Catholic join a masonic lodge and defy the dictates of the Pope on this matter of faith and morals? Why would a Catholic excommunicate himself to join an old boys’ club? Since th Church’s ruling on the matter of memberrship in Freemasonry no Catholic can be a mason technically as the very act of joining the masons results in you excommunicating yourself if you are aware of the Church’s ruling on this matter.

Popes and priests, like the rest of us, are sinners but Christ put sinful people like us and Peter (Cephas) in place in leadership - Magesterium - of His Bride the church to guide His flock until He comes again. If you don’t believe this then you are not Catholic anyway.
 
How do you know what the message of Jesus is? Have you read about it? If so from where? If the Bible then who put together the Canon (of the Books of the Bible) which is recognized as the Word of God and the truth about Jesus?

If your source for truth is Masonic writings on the other hand then how do you know that those writings are true? How old are they? Rinnie is quite right, masons dislike the papacy. Can you explain why? If so then why would a Catholic join a masonic lodge and defy the dictates of the Pope on this matter of faith and morals? Why would a Catholic excommunicate himself to join an old boys’ club? Since th Church’s ruling on the matter of memberrship in Freemasonry no Catholic can be a mason technically as the very act of joining the masons results in you excommunicating yourself if you are aware of the Church’s ruling on this matter.

Popes and priests, like the rest of us, are sinners but Christ put sinful people like us and Peter (Cephas) in place in leadership - Magesterium - of His Bride the church to guide His flock until He comes again. If you don’t believe this then you are not Catholic anyway.
This is what I think. now only my guess. I believe that GOD has his ways of getting peoples attention. And God got brians attention is all.

Brian cannot defend our Church because he does not understand the keys fo the kingdom, the Advocate comming at Pentecost. etc. Oh he has heard all of this, but now CHRIST is going to open his mind and teach what he is ready and hopefully willing to understand.

Brian if I a right you can PM me anytime with questions and things you do not understand, and I am sure everyone on here will also help me.

And Brian one more thing, when you are ready, can I be the first to say WELCOME HOME.
 
Hi Rinnie and Kinja,

Kinja, you keep saying that Catholics that become masons are excommunicated, they are not, you are wrong, look at Canon 1374 and what then Cardinal Ratzinger said, they are in grave sin. I’m criticized for not understanding Church teaching, but apparently you don’t understand the difference between excommunication and grave sin. Second, the message of Jesus is in the Gospels, don’t be absurd, they were inspired by the Holy Spirit and the Canon of the New Testament was inspired by the Holy Spirit. We as a Church can’t take credit for the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Finally, the masons don’t dislike the Papacy, however, it is clear that the Church is hostile towards masonry and this hostility is without justification.

Rinnie, I’ll try to reply to your last few posts. I feel that a Catholic can disregard exercises of power by the clergy which are beyond the power given to them by God. I was pointing out that Popes are sinners because they are capable of acting beyond their authority and abusing their power. I have cited historical facts to show that they have abused their power and been incorrect about matters of morals in the past. For example, myself, and the other “cafeteria” Catholics feel that it is an abuse of power for a member of the clergy to tell us who to vote for. Just as a hypothetical example, if Rick Perry is the republican nominee, Catholics would have to pick between a pro-choice candidate and a pro-life, anti-Catholic candidate. Is it worse to vote for Obama because he is pro-life? I don’t think so.
Freemasonry does not advocate one religion over another, as long as someone believes in God, they can be a member. When you think about this, keep in mind the historical context of masonry’s development. During the 16th-18th centuries Europe was plagued by religious wars and a huge amount of suffering. The Thirty Years War is one of the nastiest wars in all of human history. Look at what happened during the English Civil War. Freemasons wanted to find the common ground, a belief in God, rather than focusing on doctrinal differences and try to work together to have a positive impact.

Peace 🙂
 
Hi Rinnie and Kinja,

Kinja, you keep saying that Catholics that become masons are excommunicated, they are not, you are wrong, look at Canon 1374 and what then Cardinal Ratzinger said, they are in grave sin.
If I may jump back into the discussion… If the Church teaches that a Catholic is excommunicated for engaging in an act or if one is not excommunicated but one is in grave sin for engaging in an act, in both cases the Church is saying a Catholic should not engage in that act, right? Examples would be engaging in premarital sex or joining the Freemasons. Therefore we should all agree that the Church says Catholics should not join the Freemasons. Right?
 
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