Conclave May Begin March 9th or 11th

[sw85]

Breaking news on TV, cannot find a link.

From the Vatican, Pope Benedict has moved the conclave date forward.

He hasn’t moved it forward, he has simply changed the rules allowing the Cardinals (collectively) to move it forward, provided everyone is present: en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/02/25/pope:new_rules_for_sede_vacante_and_conclave/en1-668098

The rules also require the conclave to begin no more than 20 days after the sede vacante, even if not all are present.

 

[Lucky7]

Still, if we’re not even starting until the 11th, I don’t see how they formally install the new Pope before Easter. Even a three or four day conclave would only leave them a couple days to make all the arrangements. Considering the security/dignitaries/faithful who would want to attend…

Palm Sunday is March 24th. Why wouldn’t that be enough time?

 

[mburn16]

Palm Sunday is March 24th. Why wouldn’t that be enough time?

Because the Pope isn’t formally installed on Palm Sunday. Of course he’ll be Pope either way, but the only possible date hold the installation service before Easter would now be the 17th…but with the Conclave not beginning until at least the 10th or 11th, even a modest-length conclave of four days would only give us two days between “habemus papam” and the formal installation.

Not enough time.

 

[Lucky7]

Because the Pope isn’t formally installed on Palm Sunday. Of course he’ll be Pope either way, but the only possible date hold the installation service before Easter would now be the 17th…but with the Conclave not beginning until at least the 10th or 11th, even a modest-length conclave of four days would only give us two days between “habemus papam” and the formal installation.

Not enough time.

Does the installation have to occur on a Sunday?

 

[Joe_5859]

Here’s the link to Pope Benedict’s new motu proprio making the changes to allow for an earlier date:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20130222_normas-nonnullas_lt.html

It’s in Latin. I imagine an English translation will go up at some point, but this likely ran through the process a bit more quickly than usual, so it’s understandable if the translators need time to catch up.

Note, this does not mean that the conclave date has definitely been moved up. It simply means that it potentially could be moved up. Benedict has said all along that setting the date of the conclave is up to the College of Cardinals. From the way Google translate is reading this (which admittedly is prone to error), it sounds like UDG 37 has been modified to allow the cardinals to move up the date of the conclave prior to the normal 15 days, but only if certain of the presence of all the Cardinal electors.

It seems to me that, if a few cardinals were adamantly opposed to moving up the start date, they could say they will not be there early and the other cardinals would have no choice but to wait for them. That’s the way I’m reading it anyway.

 

[pepipop]

He hasn’t moved it forward, he has simply changed the rules allowing the Cardinals (collectively) to move it forward, provided everyone is present: en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/02/25/pope:new_rules_for_sede_vacante_and_conclave/en1-668098

The rules also require the conclave to begin no more than 20 days after the sede vacante, even if not all are present.

Thanks. The report gave no more information than it was to be moved forward.

 

[mburn16]

Until such time as we get something official, we can let google do the translating:

First Part

As well. 16

Apostolic Letter
MOTU PROPRIO

Some norms

SOME changes in accordance with
Pertaining to the election of the Roman Pontiff

The norms in the Apostolic Letter with some other changes in the norms concerning the election of the Roman Pontiff to some of the Proper Motion of 11 on the day of the month of June in the year of 2007, in the third of Our Pontificate, dated, we establish that, which, and they should be in the number of 75 would vote to repeal the regulations contained in the Apostolic Constitution of the flock of the Lord of the universe than the 20 day Happy is the day of the month of February in the year of 1996 our predecessor , Pope John Paul 2 he promulgated a set up in accordance with the delivery and I behave, to which, in order that there should be a strong election of the Supreme Pontiff, a two-thirds of the votes of all the tribes of the Cardinal electors present are always required.

Gravity is considered the proper way to do so developed that, although varied in weight, with regard to the election of the Roman Pontiff, especially at a certain interpretation and implementation of some of these rules, and we have decided to decree that certain norms of the Apostolic Constitution of the universe’s flock as well as those in the above-named Apostolic Letter we We have established, the norms which are substituted in the following:

1. Cardinal elector for any reason or cause of the election of the Supreme Pontiff can exclude the active and passive, which are in force, however, to all who are in n. 40 and 75 of this Constitution are established.

1. We may also, from which the Holy See is lawfully vacant, before the conclave begins, delay solids placed fifteen days, however, the College of Cardinals was anticipating the start control room, if it is present in all the Cardinal electors, or even for several days after delivery, there is a serious problem of the case; Twenty days ago, however, the highest since the beginning of the vacant seat, all the Cardinal electors present proceed to the election commission.

1. Since the commencement of business of the election to have been settled until the public announcement of the election of the Pope or, in any case, this puts the new Pontiff, the house of St. Martha’s House, as well as local elected Chapel Sixtinum liturgical celebrations must be barred, under the authority of the Secretary of the substitute and the Cardinal Camerlengo and foreign cooperation Vicecamerarii States, all without permission, as stated in the following numbers.

Undisturbed area of Vatican City, and even the ordinary industry of Ministries whose home stands within its borders, to moderate, will be at this time, as the oversight safeguards or no easy explanation of actions pertaining to the election of the Supreme Pontiff. Special provision, the prelates of the clerk of the Chamber also assistance to Cardinal electors by any suitable path from the house to the house of St. Martha’s Palace of the Vatican.

1. § 1 ° In order that the needs of persons of wisdom and duty, which are connected with the course of the election, to meet, and therefore they ought to come together to be present in the places of which have been received within the confines of the Constitution of this n. 43 mention is made, the Secretary of the College of Cardinals, who performs the office of Secretary of an electoral meeting, the Master of papal liturgical celebrations, and the two with eight Caeremoniariis the Pontifical Religious who care about the Vestry, and was elected Dean of the Church or by the Cardinal from Cardinal take the place of a man, assisted, in order to help him in fulfilling their function.

1. All persons who are in n. 46 and n. 55, § 2 of the Constitution of this means that for any reason and at any time by any of the things to be correctly resciscunt obliquove own voting concern, particularly after completion of the election ballots, is privately held, with every person close to the College of Cardinals to elect not belonging; for this reason, before the election begins, call for an oath, ought to be, according to the mode and formula, to ensure the number will tell.

 

[mburn16]

Second Part:

1. They, all of them, of whom it is said in n. 46 and n. 55, § 2 of the Constitution, have been duly informed about the significance of the oath amplitudinemque doing business before the start of the election before Cardinal Cardinal Camerlengo or otherwise delegated by him and before two Protonotaries Apostolic of the number of participants, from time to time declare and sign the oath, according to the following formula:

NN I promise and swear to be secret to keep his absolute inviolately me, with all the participants in as many as they are not of the elect of the College of Cardinals, this, indeed, in the perpetual, unless expressly given to me from a new way of a special faculty of the chosen Pope or his successors, in all things which are directly or indirectly concern the votes and ballots to the choosing a new Pope.

So again, I promise and I swear I am in no way in the Conclave of sending to the sound of another of recovering, by any manner of instruments would make use of or in any way suitable to represent the images of those things which, at the time of the election are to be done within the confines of Vatican City, in any way, and especially on those matters which pertain to the business of directly or indirectly linked to with the election. The right to issue his oath to be explained in as much as me, who is so obviously should know to be the usher in the violation of each of its excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See to me the penalty of latae of the sentence.

So help me God, and these holy Gospels of God which I touch with my hand.

1. The funeral rites for the deceased Pontiff to have been duly paid in full and the provision of those matters which are required for the implementation of the legitimacy of the election, on the appointed day - that is, from the fifteenth day of the Pontiff’s death or of not more than twenty-one, according as n. 37 of this Constitution a decree is passed - all the cardinals assemble together, in the Vatican Basilica of Saint Peter, for the sake of time and place or to any other place if appropriate, by choosing to participate in the solemn celebration of the Eucharist with the votive Mass for the Pope. This is an appropriate time to be paid out in the morning, so that they can be accomplished in the afternoon following the prescribed numbers of this Constitution.

1. A yard Chapel of the Apostolic Palace, where appropriate assist afternoon at the Cardinal electors, choir robe clad solemn procession, singing I came calling, the creator of the assistance of the Holy Spirit, they contribute to the Sixtinam Chapel of the Apostolic Palace, the seat and place to conduct the election. Procession Vicecamerarius share, and two members of each of the auditor general of the Apostolic Camera Protonotaries Apostolic College of the number of participants, the Prelate of the Chamber of Auditors of the Roman Rota and Prelates Clerks.

51, § 2 ° For this reason, the College of Cardinals, and when dealing with the authority of the office of Camerlengo, whom the Congregation of the particular of which will help in the number 7 of this Constitution, see to it that, and in the Chapel aforesaid within the contiguous places, all things are set out previously put in place, and with the aid of the Secretariat of State home the Vicecamerario , so that the regular election of the same character to safeguard secrets.

 

[mburn16]

Third Part:

55, § 3 ° If, on the other hand something of the like in accordance with this has permitted this, let them know the authors themselves bound by a latae sententiae penalty of excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See.

1. Means that after abolishing the election by acclamation and by compromise or inspiration, are a form of election of the Pope of the time will come only through the ballot.

We decree, therefore, that the Supreme Pontiff of the votes are required for a valid election, at least two of the three parts of the present system and the votes of all the elect in the bearing.

1. Three steps are explained in the investigation, the first of which can be called antescrutinium, include: 1) preparation of ballots and the partition Caeremoniarios - who in the meantime, the Court recalled together with the Secretary of the College of Cardinals and, together with the master of papal liturgical celebrations - all of them at least two or three of each CARDINALS will give 2) of all the Cardinal electors Examiner three lots of three to receive the votes of the sick who are destined for the sake of brevity called the infirmary, and the recognition of the three, the last lot of these public projects Cardinal Deacon who then retrieves the names of nine of those who must bear the following duties; 3) if the extraction of the Examiner, and is recognized by drawing names out of the infirmary, Cardinal electors who, because of illness or other reasons prevent these functions behave, their place taken other names not checked. The first three will be drawn by lot, the tellers, the other three of the infirmary, and the rest three recognitors.

70, § 2 ° The Scrutineers add up the sum of the votes, which each individual has received, and if no one of the three parts of at least two of the votes to reach him, he has not been elected Pope on that ballot, but if he received at least two parts of the three, is obtained by the election of the Roman Pontiff and a canonically valid.

1. If the numbers in the ballots, of which seventy-two, the third, and the fourth of the Constitution in vain reciderint mentioned, there should be a single day of prayer, reflection and dialogue dedicated to; vote on the other hand, in the following, keeping the order of the Constitution in the number of seventy-four of the same statute, they will have only two names which are in the passive voice they have obtained the greater number of votes in the previous ballot, nor by reason of a withdrawal from the ballot, that even in the least of these prepared a correct majority of the votes of two of the three parts of the present system and the Cardinals, who have the active voice is required for the validity of the election. In these, however, the voting is, two names which have a passive voice, active voice are lacking.

1. After the election of canonically has been made, the junior Cardinal Deacon of the College of Cardinals, and Master calls the Secretary of the election to the Court of papal liturgical celebrations, and two Caeremoniarios, and the consent of the elect, by the Cardinal Dean or by the Cardinals for the first time and the age of the order of the name of the whole of the College of the elect, is required in these words: accept the election of the you made in the Supreme Pontiff canonically? Then immediately, after the consent has been declared, he asks him: By what name do you want to be called? Then by the Master of papal liturgical celebrations, acting as notary, by the witnesses by making use of the two men, from the ceremonies, of the acceptance of the instrument from him, taking with them the name of the new Pontiff, and of the stage.

All things that are in them in the form of this Apostolic Letter Motu Proprio we decided, we dispose of these parts are to be observed that in all things, whatsoever the contrary things, not at all impede my.

This document, when published in the proceedings of the daily L’Osservatore Romano, will begin to come into force at once.

Given in Rome, at Saint Peter’s, on 22 day of the month of February, in the year 2013, the eighth of our pontificate.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thanks. The report gave no more information than it was to be moved forward.

We’re not going to know anything about the date until March 1st. Anything anyone says before that day is speculation at best.

The College of Cardinals will set the date. And they cannot set the date until the See is actually vacant.

Perhaps we’ll hear something on Friday.

March 9th or 11th do seem reasonable guesses. It doesn’t move the timetable up that much, but it moves it up just enough so that we are likely to have a new pope inaugurated before Palm Sunday. It seems like a good compromise.

 

[mburn16]

but it moves it up just enough so that we are likely to have a new pope inaugurated before Palm Sunday.

I would still place my money (though I don’t normally bet on anything) on the formal ceremony being on Divine Mercy Sunday.

 

[Joe_5859]

I would still place my money (though I don’t normally bet on anything) on the formal ceremony being on Divine Mercy Sunday.

I guess we’ll see. It’s hard to predict these things. Maybe the conclave will be deadlocked for a year and they’ll choose a pope just in time for Divine Mercy Sunday next year.

 

[mburn16]

It’s hard to predict these things

Oh I don’t know about that…it just depends on what degree of accuracy you’re looking for. Prediction is easy.

 

[Joe_5859]

Oh I don’t know about that…it just depends on what degree of accuracy you’re looking for. Prediction is easy.

Touché.

 

[Lucky7]

No one’s answered my question. Does the inauguration have to happen on a Sunday?

 

[PJD1987]

No one’s answered my question. Does the inauguration have to happen on a Sunday?

It doesn’t have to…but it traditionally always does.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[Joe_5859]

It doesn’t have to…but it traditionally always does.

God bless.

-Paul

Right.

I imagine this time around, a lot will depend on when a new pope is actually elected in relation to Holy Week.

 

[JMJSHJ]

I hope it happens on the 9th as that is a Saturday and since I work Monday-Friday, I want to see it live!

 

[Joe_5859]

Maybe this says more about me than anything o), but who thinks “The Conclave” would be a good idea for a reality TV show? Cardinals talking to each other, forming alliances and every episode ending with a vote.

Okay I know it really would’t be, but it’s funny to think about.

 

[JMJSHJ]

Maybe this says more about me than anything o), but who thinks “The Conclave” would be a good idea for a reality TV show? Cardinals talking to each other, forming alliances and every episode ending with a vote.

Okay I know it really would’t be, but it’s funny to think about.

I think the movie, “The Shoes of the Fisherman” would be a better choice than a reality show. In a way the movie reminds me of Wag the Dog because Wag the Dog was similar to the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal and the movie came out a few weeks after the scandal broke which was interesting because at the time of the filming there was no way they could have known.

The Shoes of the Fisherman is about a Non-Italian from a communist bloc (USSR vs Poland) becoming Pope. The movie came out 10 years before Pope John Paul II was elected Pope.