Confederate flag/American flag

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I bet most commenting here have never seen a CSA flag in person except via media. .
I bet they have. There are a lot of us from the south here, that have seen the flag, pray in public, yet still think it is time to move on with the Stars and Bars. It is simply a matter of putting the greater needs of more ahead of the lesser needs of few.
 
Then most southern states should change their state flags because most have symbols/imagery of the Confederate flag. That isn’t going to happpen, BTW.
That’s true, including my own state’s flag which displays the old symbol of the (Confederate) Missouri State Guard. But with some, it’s not particularly recognizable and has never been in the public consciousness as a confederate-inspired symbol.

Some state flags, however, have very obvious confederate origins.
 
I am shocked at the astonishing quickness with with the public and the market have been able to condemn the white working class who hold on to the rebel flag as their one token of self-respect this week. (And all because twisted child allowed darkness to consume his soul!) However: this is an issue and a time wherein those of us who support the flag cannot win. Tempers are too hot. In recent years racial turmoil has broken out again and again, and the national leadership offers bitterness instead of balm. I think we must concede.

Growing defensive over the flag – and defensiveness is utterly warranted when one’s ancestors are being demonized – will not help us. By us I mean the American people as a whole. At the heart of this attack against the flag is legitimate outrage, legitimate sorrow. Those who attack us are consumed by it. We must work for reconciliation. Fighting back will only take the nation further down the road of racial war, which is precisely what Dylann wanted.

In the words of that honorable gentleman:
We have fought this fight as long, and as well as we know how. We have been defeated. For us as a Christian people, there is now but one course to pursue.We must accept the situation.
For the sake of Christ, and in the spirit of Robert E. Lee, we must acknowledge the pain of others and let go of our own pride. We gain nothing by holding on to it. Next week the public will find something else to fixate on.
 
I am shocked at the astonishing quickness with with the public and the market have been able to condemn the white working class who hold on to the rebel flag as their one token of self-respect this week. (And all because twisted child allowed darkness to consume his soul!) However: this is an issue and a time wherein those of us who support the flag cannot win. Tempers are too hot. In recent years racial turmoil has broken out again and again, and the national leadership offers bitterness instead of balm. I think we must concede.

Growing defensive over the flag – and defensiveness is utterly warranted when one’s ancestors are being demonized – will not help us. By us I mean the American people as a whole. At the heart of this attack against the flag is legitimate outrage, legitimate sorrow. Those who attack us are consumed by it. We must work for reconciliation. Fighting back will only take the nation further down the road of racial war, which is precisely what Dylann wanted.

In the words of that honorable gentleman:

For the sake of Christ, and in the spirit of Robert E. Lee, we must acknowledge the pain of others and let go of our own pride. We gain nothing by holding on to it. Next week the public will find something else to fixate on.
:whacky: :rotfl: :clapping:

Like they say, “You do you.”
 
I am shocked at the astonishing quickness with with the public and the market have been able to condemn the white working class who hold on to the rebel flag as their one token of self-respect this week. (And all because twisted child allowed darkness to consume his soul!) However: this is an issue and a time wherein those of us who support the flag cannot win. Tempers are too hot. In recent years racial turmoil has broken out again and again, and the national leadership offers bitterness instead of balm. I think we must concede.

Growing defensive over the flag – and defensiveness is utterly warranted when one’s ancestors are being demonized – will not help us. By us I mean the American people as a whole. At the heart of this attack against the flag is legitimate outrage, legitimate sorrow. Those who attack us are consumed by it. We must work for reconciliation. Fighting back will only take the nation further down the road of racial war, which is precisely what Dylann wanted.

In the words of that honorable gentleman:

For the sake of Christ, and in the spirit of Robert E. Lee, we must acknowledge the pain of others and let go of our own pride. We gain nothing by holding on to it. Next week the public will find something else to fixate on.
Not all things decreed by the politically correct are obeyed by all. I fully understand Gov Haley’s gesture. It’s as if the congregation of the AME church expressed good will by proxy in expressing its forgiveness of Roof. South Carolinians are not Roof and are not like Roof. Undoubtedly, however, there are those black citizens of S.C. who think of whites in that way, or are tempted to do so. I recall some writer (maybe Shelby Foote) who opinined that the only states that really wanted the Civil War were S.C. and Mass. The rest were dragged into it in varying ways. And so, to whatever degree the battle flag was or might have been hurtful to the black citizens there, Haley returned the gesture.

Possibly I am overinterpreting the symbolism (having been a literature major and all, one tends to do so) but if any state represents leftism and hatred of everything the South stands for, it is surely Massachussetts, and its surrogates and followers are as ready as ever to condemn S.C. and every human being with a southern accent. S.C. responded “No, we’re better than that. We’ll meet reconciliation with reconciliation.”

But for others, there is a huge irrelevance to the whole thing. Rebel battle flags are sold, for instance, in Branson, Mo. in just about every way there is to use them. Whole outfits are made of them. But it’s without rancor. It’s just “I’m southern, country at heart, and at least a bit of a rebel (small “r”) so live with it.” And yes, there are black visitors to Branson.

I have a feeling that’s very widespread. S.C., through Gov Haley, has spoken its heart and, indeed, did so already by electing her and Sen. Tim Scott at all. But in doing so, it did not castigate those for whom the flag means something other than what Mass (as an archetype) wants to make of it.
 
Wal-Mart, eBay, Target, and Amazon are pulling stock with Confederate flags on them.
Etsy, Apple (App Store), Google (App Store, Ads), and more.

It seems that application of economic pressure is often the pathway to convincing people to change ways. If there were enough people (and remember, businesses are people too!) that could apply significant economic pressure to change the USA flag then I’d expect it to go through another redesign.
 
Etsy, Apple (App Store), Google (App Store, Ads), and more.

It seems that application of economic pressure is often the pathway to convincing people to change ways. If there were enough people (and remember, businesses are people too!) that could apply significant economic pressure to change the USA flag then I’d expect it to go through another redesign.
It is politically correct to do the “nice” and “feel good” thing.
 
It is politically correct to do the “nice” and “feel good” thing.
If you say so. I’m not making a statement on what’s politically correct or incorrect. Only that economic pressure can at times be effective promoting a change.
Thus, both of these ideals (slavery and secession) are evident in the Confederate flag.
The state of Georgia adopted the confederate flag into it’s state flag design in response to Brown vs. Board of education. While this had been denied as a reason one of the people responsible for the change did admit to it towards the end of his life and it was in protest to the federal government telling them what they had to do with their schools. It seems to be a continuation of the sentiments associated with slavery and succession. From 1996 to 2001 the flag was changed several times and went through a lot of debate. At present the GA state flag is now based on the first confederate flag with the GA seal in the center of the stars.
therefore, they must abide by the flag and pledge their allegiance to the nation.
Actually, one can be a citizen of the USA and not pledge allegiance. Acting outside the boundaries of the law will get some one in trouble, but it’s not obligatory to pledge allegiance if you’re a natural born citizen. Jehovah’s Witnesses tend to be better versed on this. This issue seems to have come up a lot more when students refused to pledge allegiance to the flag (nation) and were punished. The Supreme Court examined such a case in 1943 about this.
 
That’s fabulous…I didn’t even realize Farrakhan was still alive…what is he, like 120?

By far the silliest thing I’ve heard so far in terms of bandwagoneering is that the App Store stopped carrying the game Ultimate General: Gettysburg, because, get this, it contains images of the Confederate flag. It’s a freaking *game *ABOUT THE CIVIL WAR!!! What are the Confederates supposed to carry? Flags with unicorns on them?

I can totally understand taking the flag down from public buildings, but this is getting a bit out of control. We shouldn’t be trying to erase history just because it is unpleasant. 😦
 
Have noticed, not a fan. Maybe I’m just aging * but I feel like everyone is getting way too sensitive.*
 
Etsy, Apple (App Store), Google (App Store, Ads), and more.

It seems that application of economic pressure is often the pathway to convincing people to change ways. If there were enough people (and remember, businesses are people too!) that could apply significant economic pressure to change the USA flag then I’d expect it to go through another redesign.
Are you sure it’s economic pressure? There’s not that big of a crowd doing this. It’s just the “right” crowd. The PC crowd.
 
I think its important to remember what was done to the native americans by the US Govt, if anyone dd such a thing in modern times, that nation would be prosecuted for war crimes, genocide, crimes against humanity, etc. Id say the Native americans would have very just cause against the ‘US’ flag.

Plus, up until this recent mass shooting in South carolina, most people would agree the KKK and any other groups using the rebel flag would be very much insignificant in todays world, definitely not enough strength to base policy on…yet ever since that church shooting, it seems everyone now feels the actions of a VERY small minority, have such a large influence/ impact…??
 
By far the silliest thing I’ve heard so far in terms of bandwagoneering is that the App Store stopped carrying the game Ultimate General: Gettysburg, because, get this, it contains images of the Confederate flag. It’s a freaking *game *ABOUT THE CIVIL WAR!!! What are the Confederates supposed to carry? Flags with unicorns on them?

I can totally understand taking the flag down from public buildings, but this is getting a bit out of control. We shouldn’t be trying to erase history just because it is unpleasant.
As Rahm Emanuel said: “Never let a serious crisis go to waste.” This is an opportunity to score some political points by demonizing ones political opponents, in this case the conservative - and largely Republican - south. It would be interesting to know what the App Store did regarding violent video games after the shootings in Sandy Hook.

Ender
 
Are you sure it’s economic pressure? There’s not that big of a crowd doing this. It’s just the “right” crowd. The PC crowd.
In part I think it is. There is a PR perspective too (though PR may be said to be an indirection to economic impact). Depending on the area there are economic losses or gains to be made on the issue. California’s stance on the issue had already been firming up with a law banning the display of the flag on government property last year and some schools visiting the issue of prohibiting the flag in the dress code by the request of some more vocal studenta.

Within the USA there are a large number if people that don’t care about the flag one way or another. The group of people that feel apathetic don’t seem to count one way or another. Of the people that have feelings about the flag those against tend to be the larger part. The likelyhood of having negative reactions also tend to increase with education. From this I speculate that people in higher positions are more likely to have negative reactions to the flag. According to Pew’s 2011 survey only 8% of those surveyed have displayed the flag in their car, office, so on.

So if we don’t consider the people that don’t care it seems that the larger crowd to appeal to would be those with a negative reaction.

I think that some of the parties that have banned the flag don’t actually care but see some economic or PR advantage to taking a public stance. Much like how I think some parties don’t care about gay marriage but take a stance because of the expected PR outcome.
 
It would be interesting to know what the App Store did regarding violent video games after the shootings in Sandy Hook.
Ender
In response to Sandy Hook specifically, nothing. There was a petition to get the NRA’s Target Practice application removed from the app store, but it is still there today so I don’t think the petition was effective. As said by a writer at forbes:
Gregory Ferenstein:
Censorship rules are especially problematic as tech companies become the dominate channels for free speech. Ultimately, tech companies are powerful new gatekeepers of the 1st Amendment; their decisions have profound implications.
But that’s getting into another issue. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.
 
In part I think it is. There is a PR perspective too (though PR may be said to be an indirection to economic impact). Depending on the area there are economic losses or gains to be made on the issue. California’s stance on the issue had already been firming up with a law banning the display of the flag on government property last year and some schools visiting the issue of prohibiting the flag in the dress code by the request of some more vocal studenta.

Within the USA there are a large number if people that don’t care about the flag one way or another. The group of people that feel apathetic don’t seem to count one way or another. Of the people that have feelings about the flag those against tend to be the larger part. The likelyhood of having negative reactions also tend to increase with education. From this I speculate that people in higher positions are more likely to have negative reactions to the flag. According to Pew’s 2011 survey only 8% of those surveyed have displayed the flag in their car, office, so on.

So if we don’t consider the people that don’t care it seems that the larger crowd to appeal to would be those with a negative reaction.

I think that some of the parties that have banned the flag don’t actually care but see some economic or PR advantage to taking a public stance. Much like how I think some parties don’t care about gay marriage but take a stance because of the expected PR outcome.
yes but as you referred to economic impact. I was trying to say that would be anticipated. I don’t think an economic impact has hit yet. They would be acting for future possibilities. By removing things. I would say very much that Wal-mart especially fits right in with the PC crowd. The owners and being the size of the store chain.
 
In response to Sandy Hook specifically, nothing. There was a petition to get the NRA’s Target Practice application removed from the app store…
Yes, in that case the target was the NRA; in this case the target is more general: it is reinforcement of the idea that the-south-is-populated-by-racists. Compare the reaction in this case of a certifiably mentally ill young man who murdered nine people with the response to an incident a few years earlier where a mature, accomplished man murdered 13 and injured more than 30 others. In the first case we are told - because the young man was a racist and possessed the Confederate flag - that the flag is for everyone a symbol of racism, that the Confederacy and everything about it is racist, and all signs of it should be eliminated from society.

And how was the earlier case handled? All references to the man’s background and motivation for the slaughter were dismissed as irrelevant. We were in fact told in that case not to believe that others who shared his background also shared the particular belief that led to his rampage.

The wonder is not that the politically inclined would address these cases in such diametrically opposite ways - the wonder is that so many people can be influenced to accept whatever is presented.

Ender
 
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