Conference on Evolution

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Annie39 said:
Due to financial setback I will not be ordering books for a while. Would you give me, in a nutshell the most compelling proof (or evidence) that is presented in the book?
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Here is a summary I did for another thread once that covered material from Relics of Eden and another book – The Making of the Fittest by Sean Carroll:

FACT #1: Humans and chimps have 10 NANOG pseudogenes in common – pseudogenes that are known by their characteristics to have formed through duplication and retrotranscription of a “parent” gene. Therefore, these pseudogenes could not have been originally included in two independently-created genomes.

FACT #2: Humans, chimps, and gorillas all have a nonfunctional GBA pseudogene in addition to their one functional gene, and this gene is located in the same place in all three species. It is also located in the same place that a 2nd functional GBA gene exists in orangutans.

FACT #3: Humans and chimps both have two copies of the CMT1A gene in the same places in their genomes. The pseudogene copy of CMT1A has suffered the exact same type of damage as the additional copy of CMT1A in chimps.

FACT #4: Several instances of the retroelement Alu are found in and around the area of the DNA which produces hemoglobin in humans and chimps. All of these nonfunctional Alu elements are located in exactly the same places in both genomes.

FACT #5: Although primates and non-primate mammals can be found in both South America and the “Old World” (i.e., Africa and Asia), “Old World” primates (humans included) are the only mammals to possess trichromatic vision, which is the result of having an extra pigment gene that is keyed to an additional band of light on the color spectrum.

Let me know what questions you have about the above facts and their significance, and I’ll answer as best I can.

–Mike
 
StAnastasia said:
Thirty-Nine-Articles, “And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”

I have offered you numerous resources, and I have even explained some of them. 100,000 biologists – many of them Catholics, some of them priests – use evolution every day. They write books, publish articles with their results, and speak at conferences. It’s clear that nothing at all that I can say will satisfy you. If you refuse to educate yourself about evolution, I refuse to spend all morning playing your game of cat-and-mouse.

StAnastasia
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It is clear that you have no evidence for evolution. I’m not saying that there is no evidence for evolution. Only that you have none. It is clear to me that your belief system includes evolution, much like religion.
 
mpartyka said:
Here is a summary I did for another thread once that covered material from Relics of Eden and another book – The Making of the Fittest by Sean Carroll:

FACT #1: Humans and chimps have 10 NANOG pseudogenes in common – pseudogenes that are known by their characteristics to have formed through duplication and retrotranscription of a “parent” gene. Therefore, these pseudogenes could not have been originally included in two independently-created genomes.

FACT #2: Humans, chimps, and gorillas all have a nonfunctional GBA pseudogene in addition to their one functional gene, and this gene is located in the same place in all three species. It is also located in the same place that a 2nd functional GBA gene exists in orangutans.

FACT #3: Humans and chimps both have two copies of the CMT1A gene in the same places in their genomes. The pseudogene copy of CMT1A has suffered the exact same type of damage as the additional copy of CMT1A in chimps.

FACT #4: Several instances of the retroelement Alu are found in and around the area of the DNA which produces hemoglobin in humans and chimps. All of these nonfunctional Alu elements are located in exactly the same places in both genomes.

FACT #5: Although primates and non-primate mammals can be found in both South America and the “Old World” (i.e., Africa and Asia), “Old World” primates (humans included) are the only mammals to possess trichromatic vision, which is the result of having an extra pigment gene that is keyed to an additional band of light on the color spectrum.

Let me know what questions you have about the above facts and their significance, and I’ll answer as best I can.

–Mike
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Mike, thank you for these. It will take me a while to do a little research on the above. I may not get to them all due to time constraints. I’m having back probs today so I have a little down time so I’ll see what I can do. Again, thank you for taking the time to post some specifics.
 
Annie39 said:
It is clear that you have no evidence for evolution. I’m not saying that there is no evidence for evolution. Only that you have none. It is clear to me that your belief system includes evolution, much like religion.
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You are bearing false witness. That’s not a laughing matter.
 
StAnastasia said:
You are bearing false witness. That’s not a laughing matter.
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Temper, temper…Angie39 wanted specific data pointing to evolution. It’s not easy to provide specifics like that if you don’t have references sitting right in front of you. If I hadn’t found my old posts, I would have had to wait until I got back home before I could have provided the “fun facts” above.

–Mike
 
StAnastasia said:
By “post proof” what do you mean? This sounds like a Creationist strategy. Evolutionary biologists don’t speak in terms of “proof” but rather of compelling evidence. I’ve already posted links to some examples from the enormous corpus of convergent evidence.
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Sorry.but I couldn’t find links in post 682.
 
StAnastasia said:
You are bearing false witness. That’s not a laughing matter.
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StAnastasia - your current signature reads as follows:

“**Campaign for the Separation of Church and Hate”

**Against which Church exactly is this campaign of yours intended?
 
mpartyka said:
Right, because we commemorate things that actually happened, not fictional events. We commemorate people who actually existed, not fictional characters.

But let’s go with the “fable” interpretation of Genesis 1-11 for a bit and say that the stories in Genesis up to the introduction of Abraham are all fables which have been woven together into a single narrative – maybe the people described there are real, but maybe not; maybe those events happened, and maybe they didn’t. That wouldn’t give me such heartburn if it weren’t for the fact that practically none of the Fathers saw Genesis 1-11 that way. The overwhelming majority of the Fathers took Genesis 1-11 literally. Granted, the Fathers had no fossil or genetic or geological evidence to support a challenge to the Genesis accounts, but they also had nearly no expectation that any evidence ever could arise to challenge the Genesis accounts. They believed in Genesis hook, line, and sinker, and if St. Paul’s admonition to the Corinthians was that they “should all say the same thing,” how can we really believe ourselves to be of one faith with the Fathers when in the case of Adam and Eve we are most certainly not saying the same things?

–Mike
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We are saying the same thing. Literal refers to God as Creator of the World. The soul created by God is what distinguishes human beings. There were two first parents of us all. Adam sinned originally etc.

Science is only offering pieces to the puzzle of the “how” it came about. When one looks at the total history of the universe, it is easy to see that the current evidence of evolution is a tiny drop in the ocean. Ever squeeze the wrong puzzle piece to fit an empty spot? It looks right, doesn’t it? Likewise, evolution has been squeezed to fit certain people’s world view. What is needed is that the so-called compelling evidence has to be rerevisited. The question that needs to be asked is why not?

Personally, I can accept most of the theory of evolution. But how does an ordinary Jane get the big guys to realize that there are a lot more possibilities to evolution. 👋

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect.
 
“Ultimately it comes down to the alternative: What came first? Creative Reason, the Creator Spirit who makes all things and gives them growth, or Unreason, which, lacking any meaning, strangely enough brings forth a mathematically ordered cosmos, as well as man and his reason. The latter, however, would then be nothing more than a chance result of evolution and thus, in the end, equally meaningless. As Christians, we say: I believe in God the Father, the Creator of heaven and earth. I believe in the Creator Spirit. We believe that at the beginning of everything is the eternal Word, with Reason and not Unreason.”
— Pope Benedict XVI
 
grannymh said:
Personally, I can accept most of the theory of evolution. But how does an ordinary Jane get the big guys to realize that there are a lot more possibilities to evolution.Blessings,granny.
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Granny, the basic procedure is: study the science, earn a Ph.D., get a teaching position or a research lab, make your discoveries, and start making your case to your peers at the conferences of professional societies, and in journal and book publications. At least, that’s the way it’s done in theology and the other humanities; my scientist colleagues aver the same thing about their own fields.

StAnastasia
 
buffalo said:
“Ultimately it comes down to the alternative: What came first? Creative Reason, the Creator Spirit who makes all things and gives them growth, or Unreason, which, lacking any meaning, strangely enough brings forth a mathematically ordered cosmos, as well as man and his reason. The latter, however, would then be nothing more than a chance result of evolution and thus, in the end, equally meaningless. As Christians, we say: I believe in God the Father, the Creator of heaven and earth. I believe in the Creator Spirit. We believe that at the beginning of everything is the eternal Word, with Reason and not Unreason.”
— Pope Benedict XVI
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Amen to that!
 
StAnastasia said:
That all life on earth shares a common genetic lineage. That we can trace species through radiation from their centers of origin. That the fossil record reflects evolution over time. That comparative anatomy and homologies demonstrate common ancestry.

I encourage you to explore the UCMP’s interactive educational “Understanding Evolution” website: evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/tour.php. It’s free and available to the public.

StAnastasia
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Just a thought. All life once shared primordial soup.
I already use the Berkeley site.
 
StAnastasia said:
Granny, the basic procedure is: study the science, earn a Ph.D., get a teaching position or a research lab, make your discoveries, and start making your case to your peers at the conferences of professional societies, and in journal and book publications. At least, that’s the way it’s done in theology and the other humanities; my scientist colleagues aver the same thing about their own fields.

StAnastasia
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Good grief. :eek:

Someone has a good idea and it is trampled on because there isn’t alphabet soup after their name. No wonder modern evolutionary science and its followers are so blind.
 
grannymh said:
Good grief. Someone has a good idea and it is trampled on because there isn’t alphabet soup after their name. No wonder modern evolutionary science and its followers are so blind.
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You don’t have to have alphabet soup. Write up your idea and propose it to the conference of your choice. There are loads of people without PhDs who do poster sessions at these conferences. Better yet, go the next meeting of the American Scientific Affiliation (ASA). I attended last year and found it wonderfully congenial. These are scientists and non-scientists who are Christians (not Christian Scientists) – they had a delicious menu of papers, panels, poster sessions, worship services, etc. They meet in Texas at the end of July, and they don’t do any idea trampling.
 
Namesake said:
Humans are not *just animals of course. But humans are animals. We are members of the kingdom of animalia. We are chordates, and vertebrates, and mammals, and primates, and eventually homo sapiens sapiens. But we are animals, not plants.
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This must be viewed in its proper context. We are made in the image and likeness of our Creator. The idolatry of Science must end and it must be put in its proper place.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. As one dying man said to another, You’re dying and you don’t fear God?

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
This must be viewed in its proper context. We are made in the image and likeness of our Creator. The idolatry of Science must end and it must be put in its proper place.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. As one dying man said to another, You’re dying and you don’t fear God?

Peace,
Ed
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I agree Ed.

Scripture says that God adds years to our lives to be sure that we have enough time to find him. And even then, so few even try. Or wait until it’s too late.
 
Annie39 said:
Mike, thank you for these. It will take me a while to do a little research on the above. I may not get to them all due to time constraints. I’m having back probs today so I have a little down time so I’ll see what I can do. Again, thank you for taking the time to post some specifics.
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You will also find a great deal of evidence on the Talk Origins website: www.talkorigins.org In particular you might find 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution a good overview of the available evidence. The article is well referenced to help with any further research you may wish to do.

I hope that your back is troubling you less now.

rossum
 
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