Conference to Promote Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue

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phil19034 said:
However, typically, one would speak with the priest before hand.
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Why should I have to speak to a priest about it? If I were in a wheelchair, I would not be expected to kneel. Even prior to VII, if one could not kneel, they were not required to do so.

And who cares if even the most elderly can kneel? If/when you deal with my issues, then maybe you and others can judge me. Until then, I will do what I can, when I can and thank God that he is a lot more patient and understanding than most of my fellow Catholics.
 
CilladeRoma said:
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phil19034:
However, typically, one would speak with the priest before hand.
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Why should I have to speak to a priest about it? If I were in a wheelchair, I would not be expected to kneel. Even prior to VII, if one could not kneel, they were not required to do so.

And who cares if even the most elderly can kneel? If/when you deal with my issues, then maybe you and others can judge me. Until then, I will do what I can, when I can and thank God that he is a lot more patient and understanding than most of my fellow Catholics.
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EXCUSE ME. I was NOT arguing with you. I am actually on your side. I’m simply replying for all, not directly to you.

I have trouble kneeling (bad knees). So I asked my priest for a dispensation so that I could kneel as much as possible and then sit when it was too much for me.

My pastor said yes and also said that I technically didn’t need to ask for a dispensation. However, I find it is better to discuss these things with the pastor.

I said that the priest was WRONG. I was simply suggesting TO OTHERS that it’s a good idea to speak with the priest before hand. Right or wrong, some priests might prefer a specific way for people to receive standing.

As far as my elderly comment - it is only that I’ve PERSONALLY only seen people stand at the Altar Rail when it was used for a kneeling OF and Anglican Use Masses. I’ve never been to an EF mass where someone was standing. So I simply don’t know if most priests who celebrate the EF would have responded the same way your priest did, or respond correctly? That’s all I meant by it.

NONE of my posts were an attack on you. If you took it that way, I’m sorry.

God Bless and Godspeed.
 
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I sympathize with your unfortunate experience. I can’t speak to what you felt regarding your experience with the laity, but the priest was wrong and I don’t think a person would say otherwise.

No different then a priest who refuses to give communion to a person who wishes to kneel and instead forces them to stand.

The problem isn’t the kneeling though. In cases like yours it’s the priest who is at fault and reverence in kneeling vs standing shouldn’t be determined based upon how a priest is going to react.

If a priest is wrong then they are wrong & it’s incumbent upon us, as the laity to safeguard ourselves in situations such as this.
 
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At the Last Supper, Jesus and the Apostles were reclining on couches. In the early Church, Eucharist would be preceded by the Agape meal and involved sitting around a table for the “breaking of bread”. Kneeling and having the host placed upon one’s tongue is a far more recent invention. Standing and having the host placed upon one’s hand is a practical and hygienic approach. Reverence comes from within, not from whether we are reclining, sitting, kneeling or standing.
 
Finally, the Church is doing something about communion while standing. Of course, if you can’t kneel then you shouldn’t…That’s a no brainer.
 
Well if they go back to mandating receiving kneeling and on the tongue, they better put the means of us older folks having something to help us back up on our feet.

Jim
 
We need to do some things to be more reverent. I don’t agree with receiving on the tongue. Jesus said “ take this and eat”! We kneel now at our parish. I would love to see the communion rails return.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Well if they go back to mandating receiving kneeling and on the tongue, they better put the means of us older folks having something to help us back up on our feet.

Jim
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Agreed. I’m only 42, but would need the altar rail. 🙂
 
On the other side of things I’ve heard an argument that receiving in the hand is more natural, since when we meet someone we shake hands before the relationship proceeds further. It also puts an element of trust in the recipient to handle our Lord properly. Personally, I do whatever others seem to be doing at that parish. I just never thought before of receiving in the hand as possibly being more reverent or normal.
 
Short answer: Yes. They also look down on me and avoid me like the plague because I am a freak who is immune suppressed and wear a mask and gloves. Not to mention the knee surgery and two spinal surgeries. Until you’ve been there…

If the parishes had communion rails it would be less complicated, but I see the influence of ego in the entire tongue only-kneeling only movement, i.e. I’m a better Catholic if I receive to their standards.
 
I understand that you had a bad experience, which you did not deserve and absolutely should not have happened, however speaking with the priest about exceptional issues is what is typically expected. Individuals who have celiac disease have to make prior arrangements to receive either a low-gluten host or receive only under the form of wine, and those who have alcohol issues typically notify the pastor in parishes that utilize intinction. The priest should certainly be able to accommodate your situation. I would also be reluctant to speak to him again if I were you, but perhaps he was having a bad day and is not normally like that. Maybe you could make an appointment with him and explain your case. Obviously you don’t have to do this, but it’s a thought.

Just so you know though, it is in fact quite common for parishes to accommodate those for whatever reason have to stand. My parish has quite a few people who cannot kneel. They typically stand (or sit if unable to stand) in the front of the church. When the priest is done distributing at the altar rail he comes down and distributes to those people.
 
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You’re correct that it is already allowed, but there are documented cases of priests who have denied Communion to those who were kneeling. Perhaps this is an attempt to combat this rare, though real and outrageous, occurrence. Or perhaps people are simply concerned about the casual attitude with which many people receive the Lord, and are simply attempting to remind others of what Communion actually is. This is not to say that those who receive in the hand or standing are necessarily less reverent, just that it’s harder to be casual when kneeling at an altar rail (obviously excepting those with physical disabilities).

I for one would simply like to see greater reception on the tongue, whether kneeling or standing.
 
po18guy said:
but I see the influence of ego in the entire tongue only-kneeling only movement, i.e. I’m a better Catholic if I receive to their standards.
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I’m sorry that’s been your experience.

But as I attend the EF Mass 99% of the time, your reference also includes me, and I most definitely do not consider those who are unable to kneel a lessor Catholic than myself.

I too have difficulty in kneeling due to my knees and I also have an autoimmune disorder and a chronic illness that affects my muscles, tendons and ligaments - so there has been an occasion where I have had to stand due to the pain, and no-one at my parish thinks anything different as there are some others who cannot kneel either.

And yes, people do assess ones ability on whether to kneel or not on what is visible, unfortunate, but human. Being in a wheelchair is obvious so no-one thinks anything of it. The same goes for someone wearing calipers or on crutches. I too in lots of areas of my life have met with non-acceptance of my issues because to others I look normal and healthy. So I say to others when this is apparent and is what is occuring, can you see someone who has internal cancer or early stage breast cancer and not showing signs of treatment e.g. hair loss etc. - is there cancer any less real just because it is internal and not something you can see?
po18guy said:
Doesn’t that make them a sort of second class citizen in the eyes of all who watch?
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Of course not. But I wonder if perhaps if it may be coming from within ourselves when we assume others have that attitude towards ourselves in all places and occasions, that we assume others consider us to be second class citizens - perhaps some do, but I’d say a lot wouldn’t.

When I attend the OF Mass (within my parish only one has Altar rails), so I am standing to receive, but I receive on the tongue - so I bend my knees a little to make it easier for Father to place the host on my tongue. And yes, the floor is all one level. I find I can rise from this slight bending of the knees without too much problem.
 
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All I can say is that we waste time debating on how we receive rather than on Who we receive.
 
I think postures are important. Hence why we stand at various times during the Mass, sit at some places and kneel at others. We express externally what we believe & kneeling also expresses our attitude of adoration.

If one cannot kneel then there isn’t anything wrong in not kneeling. But those who are physically able to, then if they choose to kneel to receive Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament then that is also praiseworthy.

2 Chronicles 6:12-13

Ephesians 3:14

Isaiah 45:23

When Peter fell to his knees before the Lord Luke 5:8

Jesus knelt in prayer in the Garden at Gethsemane.

Matthew 2:11 “11 On entering the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother; and they knelt down and paid him homage.”

Matthew 8:2 " and there was a leper[a] who came to him and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, if you choose, you can make me clean.”"

Matthew 9:18 " 18 While he was saying these things to them, suddenly a leader of the synagogue[a] came in and knelt before him, saying, “My daughter has just died; but come and lay your hand on her, and she will live.”"

The Theology of Kneeling by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI November 15, 2002
 
I, as well as a couple others have told you this has/does happen. Hopefully infrequently, but it happens just like some have been denied Communion while kneeling.
Either is wrong and the whole idea of one posture being superior to the other is preposterous.
 
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phil19034 said:
Granted, I’ve never seen someone at the EF not kneel (even the most elderly), but I know that if one speaks with the priest before hand, a dispensation can be granted.
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I have and it’s not a problem. In fact, if the priest is told before hand he will go to the disabled person in the pew. Now what has happened is someone putting out their hands to receive at an EF Mass and the priest indicating to them that they must receive on the tongue.
 
yankeesouth said:
Now what has happened is someone putting out their hands to receive at an EF Mass and the priest indicating to them that they must receive on the tongue.
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As the priest should. No one should expect to receive in the hand at an EF Mass. It was not an option at the time, and reception on the tounge from the priest and kneeling (as able) was the norm.

As I have said, I have no problem with how anyone else wants to receive the Eucharist. Kneel, stand, hand, tounge, from a priest only, I don’t care.
What I do care about is that you understand and appreciate the great gift you are receiving, and becoming Him whom we receive to other’s in our words and deeds.
 
My EF Mass has a handful of elderly who receive at the rail while standing. Even when a visiting priest prays the Mass, they allow them to receive standing.

If anyone is judgemental regarding someone who is unable to kneel, then they walked through the door of their church for the wrong reasons to start with.
Imo
 
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