Confession / Act of Contrition.... Who are we kidding?

[Pug]

I couldn’t imagine the penance for that…

thanks.

Don’t fear the penance. It isn’t like a priest counts sins and makes it bigger for each one. Rather, the priest listens to your life story and tries to get a feel for the penance that would help you. They don’t always have time to do that, though. They often have a “typical” one that they give, one that is helpful to most everyone. The penance is like a medicine, you could say. The priest is like a physician, sort of. A loose analogy. Sometimes it is a simple, little thing that will help, even for large-seeming things.

You only need to make an honest effort on saying your sins. If you did it daily for 17 years, say that. If you did something once, but you don’t remember when, or the circumstances, that is unimportant. Just say it and move on. Only the big ones (mortal ones) need to be listed. If it helps you, make a simple list on a piece of paper. Just destroy it after you leave!

 

[Futurepriest21]

If we do not go to confession there will be more sin than we already have.But no matter what we do to repent from our sins we will have temperal punishment due to sin.

 

[Futurepriest21]

If we do not go to confession there will be more sin than we already have.But no matter what we do to repent from our sins we will have temperal punishment due to sin.

“Give Thanks to the lord for He is good.”

 

[UtSuShImI]

After confessing our sins, we say an Act of Contrition.
We tell God that we are going to stop sinning when we know darn well that it’s not true no matter how sorry we really are. Who are we kidding?

After you repent to GOD, you should REALLY do your BEST to not submit to TEMPTATION…
REMEMBER ROMANS 16:20 : And the God of Peace will soon crush satan underneath you feet!
And that includes Temptation!

 

[Thais]

The holier one gets, I bet the person develops more good habits like prudence and temperance and just plain doing the right thing without having to think much about it.
…]
Maybe that sort of thing lightens the mental load of it all as you get better habits. I’ve read, though, in some spiritual books that as you become “proficient” in prayer and stuff that you become more at risk for certain types of sins, maybe pride type ones. Though, maybe it is just that once you get rid of enough junk that you can now see the other junk underneath.

Totally agree. It’s like in the beginning you have to try really hard and explicitly think to avoid that sin, but after a while, it just doesn’t happen anymore, and you even forget about it, one day you’re like “oh year, I never did that again, thank you Jesus!”. But, like you said, they leave the way open for us to see other sins that were hidden underneath them.

I confess I have been told that myself by a priest during confession: to watch out for sinning on the other side, with scrupulosity, pride and judgment of others. I have a lot to improve in this last area. It was eye opening, I was worried about so many other things, I never expected to hear that. Virtue truly is a very very thin “high wire” for us to walk on.

In case you are interested, I pulled part of what I said in my previous post out of the council of Trent. (I am inordinately fond of it.) Here is a link for you to the sixth session from it. Chapter XI is on your topic. So is canon 23. Here is a cut from XI:
…]
Here is a cut from 23:
…]
Maybe those will lure you into reading those parts…

I am curious, I’ve got the tab open here now, until I read it.
However, I may sound stupid here, but aren’t you talking about the Code of Canon Law when you mention canon 23? If so, that is not what it says:
“Can. 23 Only that custom introduced by a community of the faithful and approved by the legislator according to the norm of the following canons has the force of law.”

 

[Thais]

Oh one last thing perhaps we should throw into the discussion is that it is probably true that all of us will face some time in further “purification” upon our earthly death. Even though we have asked and have been forgiven our sins we will face at least some time in purgatory, but fear not this means we are indeed going in the right direction as it were.

As far as I know, the only way for us to avoid going through God’s merciful purification in purgatory is to have received plenary indulgence after having gone to a valid confession, without mortal sins in between, and then dying before sinning again.
When we receive forgiveness/absolution for our sins, the guilt is gone, but not the temporal punishment due to them, which is eliminated by plenary indulgences (another face of God’s Mercy).

 

[Thais]

I am worried about the first confession deal. It would not be possible for me to remember all of the mortal sins I committed in 13 years or for that matter the number of times I committed them…

I am a revert, spent about 5 years in profound doubts about God’s existence, about to become a full blown atheist, but God is wonderful and I was rescued from that “slavery”.
The day I came back into the Church is my second most memorable, only second to the day of my wedding (which thank God happened afterwards). I was crying like a baby during my confession of years.
Before it was time, I had these same questions. The priest told me to just take the time to try to remember all of the different types of mortal sins, and just provide some “order of magnitude” for each, like “once, several times, many times, way too many times”.
He also told me: “as long as you do take your time to do a careful examination of conscience, and make sure to bring all of those sins that came to your mind then (up until the time of the actual confession), you will be totally forgiven for all of these sins, including ones you may have honestly forgotten. And please be sure to forget about them from the moment of absolution on, you don’t have to ever think about old sins, only new ones”.
That day, I felt like the whole world had been lifted off my shoulders, I won’t ever stop being thankful to God for that opportunity. I’ve literally had 2 big chapters in my life: before that day, and after that day.

I couldn’t imagine the penance for that…

The penance is not proportional to the gravity or frequency of the sins, and that is simply because the penance is not what removes our guilt, but God’s mercy and forgiveness. The penance is there to remind us that we also have to do our part, and to help make the absence of guilt more real for us.

I’ll be praying for you, congratulations on your decision. It’s not easy being Catholic, but it is simply wonderful!

 

[Pug]

I confess I have been told that myself by a priest during confession: to watch out for sinning on the other side, with scrupulosity, pride and judgment of others. I have a lot to improve in this last area. It was eye opening, I was worried about so many other things, I never expected to hear that…

aren’t you talking about the Code of Canon Law when you mention canon 23?

Sometimes I think the Holy Spirit prompts the priest…

Ah, sorry to be unclear with the word “canon”. The Council of Trent has what are called “canons” in it. There are the exposition type sections, and those are often followed by short, numbered statements (canons) with “anathema sit” (Latin) on the end of them. I meant the sixth session of Trent, and the canon number 23 which is in that session, which you can find at the same link I gave you. I didn’t quote it wholesale before because so many people misunderstand the word “anathema” and I didn’t want it to confuse people. Here it is in its entirety:

**Canon 23.
**If anyone says that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or on the contrary, that he can during his whole life avoid all sins, even those that are venial, except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard to the Blessed Virgin, let him be anathema.

See, it is about avoiding venial sins and the special privilege that Our Lady had. What it means here is that one is not allowed to say what the canon says. The Anathema statements are confusing that way. That is why I like the exposition sections better, because they are stated more like how you ought to believe, instead of how you ought not. Trent is not the only council that has canons and the word anathema. For example, so does Vatican I. So, not all things called “canons” come from the CIC (Codex Iuris Canonici - canon law). Hope that makes sense for you.

Oh, and just to drive a person nuts, the word “canon” can apply to a certain type of cleric/person as well. :jrbirdman:

 

[Shin]

There’s nothing like Hell to pay to prompt those who slack in repentance when Heaven is not reward enough.

But seriously, we should be storing up treasure in Heaven, not running for the last spot. It is truly possible to live a life without any voluntary venial sins – it simply is a life that many people are not willing to live, not ‘not able’.

One simply has to give up a lot for it.

It involves separating oneself a great deal from the world and worldly entertainments and activities while living within it, and instead spending a great deal of time in spiritual activities in which the potential for sin is very low rather than the normal ‘high level’ of the world.

It’s a spartan life materially – but one full of treasures in Heaven – where one is going to spend eternity, unlike this life.

When you go to Confession – and repent, if what you have done in the past to fix the matter has not worked – do not think you can continue to keep at it like that, your repentance will become false unless you are determined not only to use past methods that were not sufficient, but new ones however drastic, that will be. As long as they involve no moral evils they could not be as drastic as remaining in sin.

People who spend a great deal of time in prayer and remain in milk white sanctifying grace and true doctrine will be safely united with God.

Whenever you fail, try, try again! And try -differently-! Whatever it takes!

 

[Voradin]

Just simply saying myself,
I have given up so many bad habits.

Fighting, Anger, Interruptions.
Because I said, I will not and I did so for a whole day,
and for a whole week.
I kid you not, I’m 16 and I decided if I want a reputation and
a future for me and the world by influencing it,
I needed to be an adult not act like one.

 

[Pug]

Several folks have mentioned temporal punishments for sins. I thought I’d add a CCC quote. The last sentence in the quote is the line of interest to me.

1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.

I think it may be saying that sometimes there remain no temporal punishments. Of course, usually after confession and doing the penance, there still remain temporal punishments. Any thoughts?

 

[Thais]

Sometimes I think the Holy Spirit prompts the priest…

He sure does.
Another witness I have had about priests literally acting in persona Christi at Confession and Spiritual Direction is that a few years ago, before my husband decided to convert into the Church, I was getting hopeless and wanting to proceed in my Faith without him, so I started trying to discern a ministry for myself in the parish. Well, when I brought that to my Spiritual director at the time (who was the pastor in the parish), he (again, to my surprise) told me not to get involved in any ministry for the Church yet, either in the parish or anywhere else! He told me my main ministry was at home, that I should be focusing on my husband, have Faith and trust in God. I did what he said, but I confess I felt like he was just overly simplifying the situation.
Well, we ended up going to another parish later for various reasons, and I started Spiritual Direction with an associate pastor in our new parish. After a while, my fleshly brain had the great idea “oh, I should ask him that same question again, he may be more interested than my old director”. Well, sure enough, he gave me the exact same answer, in almost the same exact words.
I went home and prayed that God increase my trust in Him during Spiritual Direction. I felt so bad for doubting, slap in the face.
And thank God, my husband is now coming to the Church at the Easter Vigil. I so look forward to April 11th!!!

Ah, sorry to be unclear with the word “canon”. The Council of Trent has what are called “canons” in it. There are the exposition type sections, and those are often followed by short, numbered statements (canons) with “anathema sit” (Latin) on the end of them. I meant the sixth session of Trent, and the canon number 23 which is in that session, which you can find at the same link I gave you.

Thank you, it’s my fault actually, I should have at least started reading the document. I still have the tab open here. I just read some of the anathema statements before and after canon 23.

What it means here is that one is not allowed to say what the canon says. The Anathema statements are confusing that way.

I see what you mean, they are understandable, but it is a backwards way of thinking, which is actually a pretty good brain exercise. The first ones I read went fine, and then I started getting dizzy and I’m like “woah, I’d better slow down”. It almost makes you want to apply DeMorgan’s law before proceeding. Kind of like brushing your teeth with the other hand, not automatic, but doable.

See, it is about avoiding venial sins and the special privilege that Our Lady had.

And that solved my doubt once and for all. It is possible for God, but does require the very unique special privilege that Our Lady had.

Trent is not the only council that has canons and the word anathema. For example, so does Vatican I. So, not all things called “canons” come from the CIC (Codex Iuris Canonici - canon law). Hope that makes sense for you.

Oh, and just to drive a person nuts, the word “canon” can apply to a certain type of cleric/person as well. :jrbirdman:

It makes total sense. Come to think about it, canon also has a meaning of “essential, unique, basic building block”. Like in set theory, file paths and XML, the “canonical form” is such that it is as small as possible, no repetition or duplication, yet complete and sufficient to uniquely identify what it represents.

 

[Thais]

There’s nothing like Hell …] to prompt those who slack in repentance when Heaven is not reward enough.

But seriously, we should be storing up treasure in Heaven, not running for the last spot. It is truly possible to live a life without any voluntary venial sins – it simply is a life that many people are not willing to live, not ‘not able’.

One simply has to give up a lot for it.

It involves separating oneself a great deal from the world and worldly entertainments and activities while living within it, and instead spending a great deal of time in spiritual activities in which the potential for sin is very low rather than the normal ‘high level’ of the world.

It’s a spartan life materially – but one full of treasures in Heaven – where one is going to spend eternity, unlike this life.

When you go to Confession – and repent, if what you have done in the past to fix the matter has not worked – do not think you can continue to keep at it like that, your repentance will become false unless you are determined not only to use past methods that were not sufficient, but new ones however drastic, that will be. As long as they involve no moral evils they could not be as drastic as remaining in sin.

People who spend a great deal of time in prayer and remain in milk white sanctifying grace and true doctrine will be safely united with God.

Whenever you fail, try, try again! And try -differently-! Whatever it takes!

Amen! We all need to take God, the Church, Heaven, Virtue and our Faith more seriously. It must be the top priority thing ever in our life, it should be constantly in our minds. Sin should be everybody’s worst enemy ever, we should try our best always to avoid it, being creative about overcoming it.

 

[Thais]

Several folks have mentioned temporal punishments for sins. I thought I’d add a CCC quote. The last sentence in the quote is the line of interest to me.

I think it may be saying that sometimes there remain no temporal punishments. Of course, usually after confession and doing the penance, there still remain temporal punishments. Any thoughts?

Interesting. I don’t think I ever realized that venial sins also incur in temporal punishment. Yes, having temporal punishment removed requires some extra ordinary acts of prayer and charity. There are several known ways (I’m sure many unknown as well) to obtain plenary indulgence (and many others for partial), a great one is the family rosary (following all of the other usual requirements of course):
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1627099/posts
forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?f=148&t=18187

 

[Pug]

Well, sure enough, he gave me the exact same answer, in almost the same exact words.
I went home and prayed that God increase my trust in Him during Spiritual Direction. I felt so bad for doubting, slap in the face.
And thank God, my husband is now coming to the Church at the Easter Vigil. I so look forward to April 11th!!!

Thais,

That is quite a story about your two spiritual directors. And your obedience bore fruit! Yea! I’m so happy for your husband.

That is interesting what you noticed about “canon” and other uses of the word. I just remembered a type of matrix, Jordan canonical form. So it sure does appear in other places (that is a math reference). And I see exactly why you mention DeMorgan. They are fun to puzzle out, though.

My favorite way to try to get a plenary indulgence is to read scriptures for over half and hour. You are right, there are many ways. God is merciful and generous, slow to anger, and abounding in kindness!

 

[DallasCatholic]

After confessing our sins, we say an Act of Contrition.
We tell God that we are going to stop sinning when we know darn well that it’s not true no matter how sorry we really are. Who are we kidding?

Not sure what Act of Contrition you are using but the one I learned goes like this:
“Oh my God I am heartily sorry for having offended you and I detest all of my sins. Because I fear the loss of Heaven and the fires of Hell but most of all because I have offended you, my God, who are all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the aid of Thy Grace, to confess my sins, do penance and to amend my life.”

Nothing in there about promising not to sin again. Maybe you just need to learn the right Act of Contrition

 

[Til2morrow]

Certainly one can use an Act of Contrition that is already formulated, but if you look at those cards or notices that are sometimes left outside the confessional for those who are uncertain on how to make a good confession, you will notice that they say something to the nature of: use this formula for making an Act of Contrition or something reasonably similar–that is make a spontaneous and heartfelt Act of Contrition with the wording created on your own. I usually give an Act of Contrition that is from time to time similar in wording but like prayers, I try to make it heartfelt, genuine and spontaneous and not pre-prepared. Not that there is anything wrong with those we learnt when we were in catechism since they indeed cover all the bases so to speak. I just like to pray spontaneously and do the same with the Act of Contrition, perhaps adding something that is “sin specific” making my act meaningful to me at that particular moment. Everyone must do what they feel comfortable doing. Just so the form is there to actually be an Act of Contrition.
Til2morrow

 

[Thais]

Thais,
That is quite a story about your two spiritual directors. And your obedience bore fruit! Yea! I’m so happy for your husband.

Yes it really is. Thank you, this weekend was his Rite of Sending and of Election, I couldn’t help but cry. I don’t think I’ll be able to hold all of my joy at the Easter vigil. He’ll be receiving 4 Sacraments: Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist & Matrimony (although we are already validly married in the Catholic Church, with special dispensation from the Archbishop - but without baptism, he had not received the same sacramental sanctifying grace that I did).

Please keep us in your prayers, as he’s just told his parents about it and invited them to the Vigil this past weekend. We’ll be meeting them this weekend to “talk about it”.

That is interesting what you noticed about “canon” and other uses of the word. I just remembered a type of matrix, Jordan canonical form. So it sure does appear in other places (that is a math reference). And I see exactly why you mention DeMorgan. They are fun to puzzle out, though.

This is really cool, yet another occurrence of the term! I was not familiar with the Jordan canonical form matrix, unless I forgot, it’s been a while. The ones I mentioned earlier were math (set theory) and computer programming (XML and file paths).

And then there is the Biblical Canon established in the Council of Trent, which I confess is still open in a tab here, haven’t had the chance to read it yet.
Old Testament Canon
and
New Testament Canon

My favorite way to try to get a plenary indulgence is to read scriptures for over half and hour. You are right, there are many ways. God is merciful and generous, slow to anger, and abounding in kindness!

Thank you for reminding me about that one! I have missed the chance in several occasions of reading the Bible for that time shortly after confession…

 

[Pug]

Please keep us in your prayers, as he’s just told his parents about it and invited them to the Vigil this past weekend. We’ll be meeting them this weekend to “talk about it”.

Prayer is the most useful thing I can do, except listen, if you want to talk about it some more. If I were you I’d have a little worry, but my husband, he wouldn’t worry at all. He never gets insomnia, either.

I’ll remember your intention.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Please stay on topic, everyone. Take side discussions to new or existing threads. Thank you all.