Confession: D&D

[Elijah_Baley]

I was in a good mindset in preparation for my next confession, and I was looking up online for a possible list of sins to confess. It’s been a while. That’s when I find on someone’s Geocities-quality homepage that playing Dungeons and Dragons is a sin.

… really?

 

[FrancisB]

I should think not. It’s a game and at that, one based on the Lord of the Rings, which was written by a Catholic author with the stated purpose of winning souls over to Catholicism. I’m sure that you could commit sins while playing that game or any other, but I don’t think that there is any way to classify the game itself as sinful.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

To be more precise D&D charactors are loosely based on on LOTR charactors. But the game itself is not based on the Books.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

No. People who think it is, usually tend to be of the fringe variety.

 

[Adeodatus]

I was in a good mindset in preparation for my next confession, and I was looking up online for a possible list of sins to confess. It’s been a while. That’s when I find on someone’s Geocities-quality homepage that playing Dungeons and Dragons is a sin.

… really?

They were probably talking about “3.5 Edition”.

It’s like Francis said, you could sin while you were playing. Same thing with shooting hoops, though. You could sin while you were doing that. You know, you were manifestly uncharitable to someone, hurt them, cheated, got real insulting, whatever. Basically there’s any number of ways inasmuch as you might put the activity itself, or performing well in the activity, or gaining honors, etc. above decent moral behavior.

But the activities themselves do not seem to be sinful. Now, I have heard of rare cases where people have combined actual occult practices, such as Tarot cards, with role playing games. Be careful to stay away from that. However, those aren’t per se elements of the games as far as I know. All the talk about magic, evil gods, etc. in D&D is merely fantastical in nature. Some of them are drawn from actual terrestrial mythology, such as a Norse god like Thor being discussed in the game, but even when something like Thor is called “good” in the game, there’s no actual element of worshipping it.

Likewise, there’s the case of what your “character” does in the game. If I say “My barbarian warrior, Hrothwulf of the Northern Wastes, spends his jade treasure at the House of Ill Repute in the dark city of Gnorr”, I haven’t personally retained a prostitute (or irresponsibly disposed of money as a wastrel). It’s merely a story about a fictional character; none of it exists. However, to try to imagine it or somehow narrate it (CREEPY!) would obviously be sinful. So if you’re an especially sensitive person it’s probably best to try to play the games in a “PG”-rated fashion.

Likewise if Hrothwulf kills 50 orcs, I have personally still killed 0 orcs.

So unless you’re taking it too far in ways you already know are wrong, probably don’t worry too much about it.

 

[Secret_Square]

Those who think D&D is sinful probably think it involves practicing or dabbling in the occult, like using a Oujia board or Tarot cards (which ARE sinful and not ever to be messed with).

However, you don’t practice the occult by merely playing D&D any more than you get rich by playing Monopoly or commit murder by playing Clue.

 

[FrancisB]

They were probably talking about “3.5 Edition”.

No, no, it’s certainly 4th Edition that’s the sin.

And it was the game itself, not just some characters that were based on Lord of the Rings. Gygax was trying to recreate the LoTR universe. Hence the halflings, orcs, and liches, all of which were products of Tolkien, not folklore. That’s a matter for another board, though.

As an interesting aside, Tolkien’s grandson lamented attending mass with him after Vatican II because he said Tolkien loudly prayed the responses in Latin, much to the embarrassment of those near by him.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

They were probably talking about “3.5 Edition”.

Hey now, I resent that! D8 I may not be a total expert on the game but my DM told me that they botched up the 4th Edition because they made it waay too complicated. >_>;;

But anyways…

Likewise, there’s the case of what your “character” does in the game. If I say “My barbarian warrior, Hrothwulf of the Northern Wastes, spends his jade treasure at the House of Ill Repute in the dark city of Gnorr”, I haven’t personally retained a prostitute (or irresponsibly disposed of money as a wastrel). It’s merely a story about a fictional character; none of it exists. However, to try to imagine it or somehow narrate it (CREEPY!) would obviously be sinful. So if you’re an especially sensitive person it’s probably best to try to play the games in a “PG”-rated fashion.

Exactly. And as far as magic is concerned, saying “I cast Brimstone Hellfire Chain” doesn’t exactly turn my hands into a killer flamethrower from the underworld.

I do deal a delicious 13d6 worth of damage though. >8)
And if you fail a Reflex save, you will notice that you are now on fire. >8)

 

[Adeodatus]

No, no, it’s certainly 4th Edition that’s the sin.

Heh. Well, any game with rulebooks longer than the Torah is kind of a buzzkill. Perhaps predictably, my favorite is still the 1974 version of the rules. Mine are all snug in their little white box. Also the cutest edition by far.

As an interesting aside, Tolkien’s grandson lamented attending mass with him after Vatican II because he said Tolkien loudly prayed the responses in Latin, much to the embarrassment of those near by him.

Man, I never run out of reasons to love that guy!

 

[curlycool89]

I think the above posts should answer the OPs question thoroughly.

They were probably talking about “3.5 Edition”.

No, no, it’s certainly 4th Edition that’s the sin.

Geek fight!

:slapfight:

 

[ghym]

Playing DnD is no more evil than taking a trip to Europe. What you do once you are there can be evil. Although it is not you doing it, per se, when you have your character visit a brothel or murder innocent civilians those actions still reflect on you. It is not the game that is evil or good, it is how you play it.

And as for 3.5 v 4.0, i like 3.5 because that is what i learned with but i have friends who greatly prefer 4.0 and although it can be confusing to transition to 4.0, it is easier to learn than 3.5 if you have never played before.

And as they are probably referring to pre-3.5 editions as evil, those editions had some pretty screwed up aspects.

 

[Secret_Square]

any game with rulebooks longer than the Torah is kind of a buzzkill

The best description of D&D I ever read was in one of Cecil Adams’ “Straight Dope” books. He said the D&D rulebook (from the early '80s) combined “the charm of a Pentagon briefing with the excitement of double-entry bookkeeping”.

 

[Pat_Payne]

No, no, it’s certainly 4th Edition that’s the sin.

Quoted for the ever lovin’ truth.

as for the OP, playing D&D is acting. To say that you’re offending God by playing make-believe would be like saying Ralph Feinnes is a Nazi because he played Amon Goeth in Schindler’s List or that the actors in any Passion play you care to name genuinely wish ill to Our Lord because they play the part of Pilate, or the Pharisees, or Judas or the Romans.

Now, if you actually get aroused by the roleplaying of inappropriate acts or think that certain actions are acceptable IRL (for instance, if you start thinking it’s OK to kill people and take their things in real life because Ragnar the Smelly, your 12th-level Barbarian gets away with doing so back in the Forgotten Realms) then you may have a problem you need to take to your priest.

And I agree with a poster a bit further up – there are some things that are just plain squicky to RP.

BTW, it’s important to remember that E. Gary Gygax himself was a Christian (a Univeralist Unitarian, perhaps, but still Christian). And so are the Hickmans (who wrote the gothic-horror “Ravenloft” module and who co-created the “Dragonlance” campaign world).

And:

Heh. Well, any game with rulebooks longer than the Torah is kind of a buzzkill. Perhaps predictably, my favorite is still the 1974 version of the rules. Mine are all snug in their little white box. Also the cutest edition by far.

Have you, by any chance then, played Castles and Crusades? All the elegance of 3.5 with none of the annoying feats, skills and voluminous miniature combat rules and Gary was a consultant to the writers on it, even taking one more stab at Castle Greyhawk before he passed on.

 

[Domnall]

I’m gonna have to start by saying that the camp that believes 4.0 is a sin is 100% correct

That being said–no, D&D is not sinful. Its just a fun activity to pass the time.

As for the tarot cards. One of the wondrous items in the game is based off the tarot cards. By having a tarot deck in place, its just a visual representation of what the cards do in game. Mind you, they don’t have anything to do with in-game divination.
-Just thought I’d clarify that.

Peace

P.S. The Hickman’s are LDS, not Christians

 

[Melissa]

And as they are probably referring to pre-3.5 editions as evil, those editions had some pretty screwed up aspects.

Nonsense … anything after 2nd ed is evil, including Players Options. Proof (language does get bad, so view with caution)

No–seriously, the classification of playing an RPG (and why doesn’t anyone ever pick on GURPS?) as a sin is based on the same error by which some would condemn the Harry Potter novels (I saw that thread resurrected, probably in honor of the new film about to be released). These would be the outright factual errors, e.g., suggesting that the player of the cleric in a D&D game actually worships Thor/Loki/St. Cuthbert/etc. because the character does; or that the presence of magic in the game/book is evil without noticing that the magic is a mechanical device (there’s very little difference in my character casting shocking grasp against a foe vs. my character attacking that same foe with a sword … both attacks are resolved by a roll of a d20, and if successful, damage according to the relevant dice) or otherwise more “window dressing” to the story than the story itself. It’s basically what happens when someone who is an authority on one subject makes a pronouncement outside his area of expertise based on a surface similarity which is more akin to a false cognate than actual similarity.

 

[Holly3278]

Personally, I won’t play the game but I don’t condemn those who do. I played the computer version of the game by the way. What I am about to tell you may kind of weird you out but I am being completely honest with you.

When I was in college, I started dating a man and he introduced me to a cult called Wizardry. Him and about 20 others were involved in it according to him. I never met anyone but him involved in this. Anyway, he told me that a part of the training for this cult included a huge amount of Dungeons and Dragons material, including the computer games. I honestly don’t understand how this was though because the games didn’t really teach you anything other than negotiating skills and problem solving skills which could be used in every day life. What I am saying is that you, as a character, would have computerized conversations with other characters and in order to get the information you needed, you had to select the right information to ask about. This was really the only “real world” skills training one could possibly get from this game and even that was extremely minimal. The problem solving skills basically included a lot of puzzle solving. In order to solve an adventure, you had to use the knowledge and items that you gained from conversations with others to solve a specific mission or adventure. This was more fun than anything and in my opinion, it if did actually teach any sort of “real world” skills, it was very minimal. Other than that, you had to learn about the various types of weapons in the game and how they worked best against the monsters you had to fight against and such.

That said, my main objection to the game was the various Occult imagery throughout the game. For example, you would sometimes run upon a certain scene in which there would be a large pentagram/pentacle on the floor. Everyone knows that this is a common Occultic image. However, if I recall, these scenes usually involved a boss enemy or something that you had to fight against.

So, to be honest with you, I really don’t have much against the game as far as morality and such goes. Sure, you cast spells and such in the game but obviously this is fantasy and not real. I, however, simply choose to stay away from it because of the association with the Occult that I had with the game.

 

[Aramis]

I was in a good mindset in preparation for my next confession, and I was looking up online for a possible list of sins to confess. It’s been a while. That’s when I find on someone’s Geocities-quality homepage that playing Dungeons and Dragons is a sin.

… really?

To quote Rev. Fr. Kent Burtner: “As long as they players are not playing evil characters, I don’t see a problem with it.” 1986.

I ran a gaming club at Holy Family Cathedral in Anchorage for 4 years. Fr. Kent would sometimes sit and listen when we played RPGs. He’d also make insightful comments when we’d play boardgames. He was the pastor, and a cultist deprogrammer.

 

[Aramis]

P.S. The Hickman’s are LDS, not Christians

And technically, Universalist Unitarians are not Christians as a group, either.

But many of them, both LDS and UU, practice Christian Virtue… despite their ecclesial community being heretical and not meeting the 1st Ecumenical Council’s definition of Christianity… which was, BTW, essentially a way of distancing the Church from the Gnostics and Arians.

 

[Aramis]

No, no, it’s certainly 4th Edition that’s the sin.

And it was the game itself, not just some characters that were based on Lord of the Rings. Gygax was trying to recreate the LoTR universe. Hence the halflings, orcs, and liches, all of which were products of Tolkien, not folklore. That’s a matter for another board, though.

As an interesting aside, Tolkien’s grandson lamented attending mass with him after Vatican II because he said Tolkien loudly prayed the responses in Latin, much to the embarrassment of those near by him.

Actually, Gygax has stated it was not a recreation of LOTR, tho’ chainmail’s fantasy supplement started out that way, but a syncretic hybrid of JRR Tolkein (Hobbit, LOTR), RE Howard (Conan, Kull), HP Lovecraft (Cthulhu), Fritz Lieber (Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser), and Michael Moorcock (Elric), as well as Jack Vance’s Dying Earth (which is the source of the magic system).

It’s quite interesting to note that Tolkien and CS Lewis both were Christian Apologists, friends, and both shaped each others most noted works (LOTR and Narnia).

 

[Spirithound]

I was in a good mindset in preparation for my next confession, and I was looking up online for a possible list of sins to confess. It’s been a while. That’s when I find on someone’s Geocities-quality homepage that playing Dungeons and Dragons is a sin.

… really?

Not as long as you remember…Dungeons and Dragons is a game, not a way of life!