Confirmed: Obama, Romney to attend Al Smith dinner [CWN]

[Ridgerunner]

I think it would be neat of Cdl Dolan let it “leak” that he intends to condemn the HHS mandate and promotion of abortion at the dinner. Perhaps then, Obama would not show up, which would be nice.

Doubt it will happen that way, but it’s an enjoyable thought.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The Eastern Orthodox certainly say the Catholic Church is heretical, and have said it for centuries. Their ultimate position is that the Catholic Church (once it returns to orthodoxy) should leave Asia, Africa and the Americas and be geographically limited to Rome and its surrounding countryside.

They should talk. My father, a devout Catholic who was raised in Poland, considered Orthodoxy as “organized superstition.” I no longer share that notion, and genuinely believe that the various faiths can mix in peace in America.

 

[Ridgerunner]

They should talk. My father, a devout Catholic who was raised in Poland, considered Orthodoxy as “organized superstition.” I no longer share that notion, and genuinely believe that the various faiths can mix in peace in America.

They do talk. But Eastern Orthodoxy absolutely considers the Catholic Church profoundly heretical, the Pope illegitimate, Catholic orders and other sacraments (some will sort of concede baptism) invalid. And it does today.

But the point is that virtually all religions claim exclusivity of truth, and claiming that Mormonism is somehow unique in doing that is a complete misconception.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

They do talk. But Eastern Orthodoxy absolutely considers the Catholic Church profoundly heretical, the Pope illegitimate, Catholic orders and other sacraments (some will sort of concede baptism) invalid. And it does today.

But the point is that virtually all religions claim exclusivity of truth, and claiming that Mormonism is somehow unique in doing that is a complete misconception.

Then, my father was pretty much correct. I know that they, within their own communion, freely excommunicate each other for various “heresies.”

Some 40 years ago, a Catholic acquaintance of mine desiring to marry a Greek girl was told that he’d have to be baptized (not re-baptized!) before the couple could be married in her church. He got a lot of trouble from her family over that, and they almost broke up. He refused to do it. Ultimately, they married civilly, and it took 15 years before they had a private in-the-Sacristy wedding in the Church. And, even after 4 children and a fine marriage, his SOB in-laws wouldn’t honor them by attending the nuptial dinner.

 

[Bill_Martin]

I disagree, but am not viewing this through the political eye. I won’t vote for either.

Even without the political aspect, I don’t see how somebody disagreeing with me over philosophical and spiritual matters equals persecution, unless he tries to actually prevent me from practicing my faith.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Even without the political aspect, I don’t see how somebody disagreeing with me over philosophical and spiritual matters equals persecution, unless he tries to actually prevent me from practicing my faith.

Agree. We can’t define persecution with the sort of hyperbole that too many here use.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Even without the political aspect, I don’t see how somebody disagreeing with me over philosophical and spiritual matters equals persecution, unless he tries to actually prevent me from practicing my faith.

It’s already beyond “disagreeing philosophically and spiritually”. Obama is using the force of the state to make Catholic institutions pay for and promote contraceptives and abortifacients against conscience. That goes beyond “disagreement”. And if he does that while seeking re-election, can you imagine what he’ll do if he doesn’t have to face it again?

People should take the HHS mandate (and other actions) seriously. They’re anti-Catholic, known by them to be anti-Catholic and enforced by the power of the state.

Obama has also evidenced his willingness to “rule by decree” and gets by with it. We would be incredibly stupid to assume he won’t continue to be that way.

 

[stevegravy]

Well to my way of thinking, unless Dolan explains himself, the rhetoric he has used in the past year in talking about HHS mandate is secondary when it comes to making money. So, in the end money talks?

 

[Bill_Martin]

It’s already beyond “disagreeing philosophically and spiritually”. Obama is using the force of the state to make Catholic institutions pay for and promote contraceptives and abortifacients against conscience. That goes beyond “disagreement”. And if he does that while seeking re-election, can you imagine what he’ll do if he doesn’t have to face it again?

People should take the HHS mandate (and other actions) seriously. They’re anti-Catholic, known by them to be anti-Catholic and enforced by the power of the state.

Obama has also evidenced his willingness to “rule by decree” and gets by with it. We would be incredibly stupid to assume he won’t continue to be that way.

I know that and I agree. But the other poster was talking about being persecuted by Romney simply because he is a Mormon and not because of anything he has done.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well to my way of thinking, unless Dolan explains himself, the rhetoric he has used in the past year in talking about HHS mandate is secondary when it comes to making money. So, in the end money talks?

One doesn’t know if it has in this case. Rather fantastically, but imaginable, might be that Dolan traded the invitation for a genuine reversal of the HHS mandate. I don’t think it would be worth it, because Obama could always reverse such a reversal. But one never knows what the “big boys” are doing.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Archbishop Lori: Obama Invite to Catholic Dinner Is Not Show of Support

Baltimore Archbishop William Lori says an invitation to President Obama to speak at a New York fundraiser alongside Mitt Romney should not be misunderstood as a show of support for the president.

Obama’s expected presence and remarks at the upcoming Alfred E. Smith Foundation dinner “do not constitute an endorsement,” the U.S. bishops’ religious liberty chairman and Baltimore archbishop told Kathryn Jean Lopez of National Review Online in an interview published Aug. 9

.

In his remarks to Lopez during the Knights of Columbus’ Aug. 7-9 Supreme Convention in California, Archbishop Lori said he believed there was no “clearer voice in the United States about the sanctity of life and religious liberty than Cardinal Dolan.”

Baltimore’s archbishop urged Catholics and other observers not to “get distracted” by the New York cardinal’s gesture of courtesy toward President Obama, which did not detract from his standing as a “clarion voice” for the Church’s non-negotiable principles.

ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-lori-obama-invite-to-catholic-dinner-is-not-show-of-support

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Archbishop Lori: Obama Invite to Catholic Dinner Is Not Show of Support

"Baltimore Archbishop William Lori says an invitation to President Obama to speak at a New York fundraiser alongside Mitt Romney should not be misunderstood as a show of support for the president.

In his remarks to Lopez during the Knights of Columbus’ Aug. 7-9 Supreme Convention in California, Archbishop Lori said he believed there was no “clearer voice in the United States about the sanctity of life and religious liberty than Cardinal Dolan.”

Baltimore’s archbishop urged Catholics and other observers not to “get distracted” by the New York cardinal’s gesture of courtesy toward President Obama, which did not detract from his standing as a “clarion voice” for the Church’s non-negotiable principles."

Just so. I was really annoyed at the remarks from some who said that the Cardinal was wrong to invite the President to a banquet that was entirely social in nature. Not just wrong, but ignorant of the facts.

The Cardinal is not the dim bulb that some would see him as. Bravo for Abp Lori!

 

[PJD1987]

Just so. I was really annoyed at the remarks from some who said that the Cardinal was wrong to invite the President to a banquet that was entirely social in nature. Not just wrong, but ignorant of the facts.

The Cardinal is not the dim bulb that some would see him as. Bravo for Abp Lori!

We are not ignorant of the facts, sir. You seem to be ignorant of the implications, however.

I am so disappointed that the Church is caving on this. It is unbelievable.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[wynnejj]

About the Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Dinner

While commendatory references to Smith and his actions were once common, by chance or by design, many of the addresses at later dinners have taken on a lighter tone. Indeed, the occasion has evolved into something of an opportunity for speakers - particularly ones whose mien is typically quite serious - to show, through quips and slightly irreverent humor, that they can poke fun at a political issue, an opponent, or themselves. In 1988, Michael S. Dukakis solemnly declared, “I’ve… been told that I lack passion. But that doesn’t affect me one way or the other. Some people say I am arrogant, but I know better than that.” In the days before Saturday Night Live, the Al Smith dinner served as a kind of “proving ground for the candidate as entertainer,” as one reporter described it.

If one thinks of it more as an “Alfred E. Newman” dinner, one can get into the spirit of intentionally “politically incorrect” night out. It’s a MAD concept.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

We are not ignorant of the facts, sir. You seem to be ignorant of the implications, however.

Like the Cardinal and Abp Lori? I’m in good company. And whom do you represent, other than yourself, to put yourself in a position to judge those men?

I am so disappointed that the Church is caving on this. It is unbelievable.

So, now it is “the Church” that is caving. About a dinner in NYC that hardly anyone outside the U.S. will hear of? Awfully presumptuous of you to set yourself above the Church, I think.

 

[PJD1987]

Like the Cardinal and Abp Lori? I’m in good company. And whom do you represent, other than yourself, to put yourself in a position to judge those men?

So, now it is “the Church” that is caving. About a dinner in NYC that hardly anyone outside the U.S. will hear of? Awfully presumptuous of you to set yourself above the Church, I think.

Why do you insist on insulting me repeatedly and misrepresenting my position. I AM NOT JUDGING the Cardinal OR Archbishop Lori, I am respectylly disagreeing with their decision on this matter and I will CONTINUE to do so, regardless of your seeming joy at throwing insults my way for simply holding an opinion. The Cardinal and the Archbishop are not ignorant of the facts, I never said they were, I simply do not think they have thought through all of the various implications, they clearly did not expect such a backlash from the laity, and that I think speaks to my point.

On the second point, you know very well I am referring to the U.S. Catholic Church, which I think we would all agree has significant issues these days, and the fact that they have not been able to adequately address them, and do not want to use this opportunity to make a radical statement speaks to that. Simply voicing my opinion and making my concerns known is not tantamount to putting myself above the Church, and I resent your repeatedly and constant implication that I have done so.

You have severely offended me repeatedly with apparently no concern for the truth of the matter, my position, or respect, sir. And I would appreciate an apology.

Even so,

God bless.

-Paul

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I simply do not think they have thought through all of the various implications, they clearly did not expect such a backlash from the laity, and that I think speaks to my point.

That amounts, not to disagreement, but to judging them as not having considered the implications of the invitation. A distinction without a difference, it seems.

Where is the backlash you speak of documented? In the Brooklyn Tablet or in Catholic New York or was it in the secular press?

On the second point, you know very well I am referring to the U.S. Catholic Church,

Not at all. When I see the term, the Church or the Catholic Church, I presume it is the universal Church and not just that in one diocese or state or country. Now, you could have said “the Church in America” to make yourself clear.

Simply voicing my opinion and making my concerns known is not tantamount to putting myself above the Church, and I resent your repeatedly and constant implication that I have done so.

And so you have made your concerns known. I doubt that his Eminence is going to change his mind about the event based on anything a layman might say.

 

[PJD1987]

That amounts, not to disagreement, but to judging them as not having considered the implications of the invitation. A distinction without a difference, it seems.

Where is the backlash you speak of documented? In the Brooklyn Tablet or in Catholic New York or was it in the secular press?

Not at all. When I see the term, the Church or the Catholic Church, I presume it is the universal Church and not just that in one diocese of state or country. Now, you could have said “the Church in America” to make yourself clear.

And so you have made your concerns known. I doubt that his Eminence is going to change his mind about the event based on anything a layman might say.

The backlash is profound, there is a 5,000+ signature petition and growing, every comment on the bottom of every article and youtube video is negative, see ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-lori-obama-invite-to-catholic-dinner-is-not-show-of-support/ as one mainstream example or the fact that even Cardinal Dolan’s facebook updates are being flooded with faithful begging him to rescind the invitation. The Archdiocese of New York responded with a blog message from Ed Mechmann on their website making some of the same defenses you have posited on this thread, and it was opened up for comments and was flooded with negative feedback within minutes of it being posted.

Obviously, if you are not aware of all this, you are not aware of the facts and implications as I supposed to begin with. This is not something that me and 4 other people on this thread came up with out of the blue on our own. This is a consensus feeling of many, many Catholics that are outraged and disturbed by this.

On top of this, judging someones actions is separate from judging the person, Cardinals, even Pope’s are not above critical analysis and constructive criticism, that is a fact, and it is basic Catholic Teaching that we can judge someones actions, but not judge the person, so STOP IT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

As far as “The Church” goes, the entire context of this ENTIRE thread is the U.S. Catholic Church, so please stop being cute.

On top of that, you continue to ignore the fact that you have offended me, and evidently have no remorse whatsoever and refuse to apologize for your uncharitable treatment of the subject and those that disagree with you by your continued misrepresentation of the arguments being made, unnecessary admonishment for nonexistent sins of detraction, and accusations of sinful pride. Thus, regardless of effect or not, I am going to notify a moderator of the offensive way I have been dealt with, and I am going to block you.

I will continue to pray for you and all Catholics, including Cardinal Dolan and Archbishop Lori, along with the Catholic Church that we make the correct decisions to make the bold and radical stand needed in this most desperate hour.

May God continue to bless you.

-Paul

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The backlash is profound, there is a 5,000+ signature petition and growing, every comment on the bottom of every article and youtube video is negative, see ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-lori-obama-invite-to-catholic-dinner-is-not-show-of-support/ as one mainstream example or the fact that even Cardinal Dolan’s facebook updates are being flooded with faithful begging him to rescind the invitation. The Archdiocese of New York responded with a blog message from Ed Mechmann on their website making some of the same defenses you have posited on this thread, and it was opened up for comments and was flooded with negative feedback within minutes of it being posted.

5,000+? Out of the 2.5 million plus Catholics in the diocese? As you said, it’s not something you and four others came up with, but, please - one tenth of one percent?? Not “many, many Catholics” as you claim.

As far as “The Church” goes, the entire context of this ENTIRE thread is the U.S. Catholic Church, so please stop being cute.

I am not a mind reader and took you at your word.

On top of that, you continue to ignore the fact that you have offended me, and evidently have no remorse whatsoever and refuse to apologize for your uncharitable treatment of the subject and those that disagree with you by your continued misrepresentation of the arguments being made, unnecessary admonishment for nonexistent sins of detraction, and accusations of sinful pride.

It’s called vigorous debate. Misrepresentation of the facts, uncharitable treatment of the subject, and admonishment are how you see it.

I am going to notify a moderator of the offensive way I have been dealt with,

Hardly offensive. There’s a phrase that goes, “If you can’t stand the heat, keep out of the kitchen.” I’ll take the Cardinal’s side every time and agree with Mr.Mechmann’s position which parallels my own.

 

[Robert_Bay]

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