Confirmed: Obama, Romney to attend Al Smith dinner [CWN]

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RobbyS said:
AS you say the Cardinal has put himself into this position, and a strange one it is. “It’s war to the knives,” but then again, not so fast?” Is he hedging his bets, and trying not to anger the President in case he wins re-election?
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If that were so, he’d drop the lawsuit against the administration; don’t you think?

Come on people. Romney, the great pro-life candidate, agreed to come and sit down with Obama, but we’re only going to question the decision of the Cardinal? Government, politics, first, Church second?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Come on people. Romney, the great pro-life candidate, agreed to come and sit down with Obama, but we’re only going to question the decision of the Cardinal? Government, politics, first, Church second?
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Huh? When did Romney sue the Obama administration?
Apples and oranges.
 
PJD1987 said:
I’m not so sure about that. This is incredibly scandalous, on a national scale. It gives dissenting Catholics a loophole to continue their ardent and public dissent and scandalization of the Church by saying, “Oh look, Cardinal Dolan is okay with this guy…” It also gives that impression to non-religious or non-Catholic people that Cardinal Dolan and Mr. Obama are best buddies and everything is alright, thus giving them ample opportunity to justify support of Mr. Obama and his anti-Catholic policies. For the last few decades the Church has been too willing to “enter into dialogue” with those that aren’t really interested in dialogue at all. And thus we allow ourselves to be used as political pawns. Mr. Obama does not care one bit for the Catholic Church, sees it as an obstacle, and to think that having a little chat over a lovely dinner and some jokes with the man will change anything, is stunningly naive. Doing this at this time when we are in a bitter fight for our very sacred religious freedom, totally undermines and cuts the legs out from underneath this fight.

Let us not forget, Cardinal Dolan presided over the re-dedication of St. Francis Xavier in New York City and was presented with several LGBT groups that are PART of, endorsed by, and organized by, the Church and he did not bat an eyelash.

I continue to pray for Cardinal Dolan, that he will change his mind, and take the radical stand we need in this country.

God bless.

-Paul
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This is exactly the time to do this and “radical stand” you seem to treat the church like a political and not religous entity. The us versus them mentality that many of my brothers and sisters south of the border seem to embrace is quite distressing and not in keeping with the doctine of the Church or in the message of Christ. Do you understand the message Christ brought to the world? Of what it means to be christian and indeed Catholic?

Your remarks remind me of Peter in the garden when they came for Jesus drawing his sword looking for a fight. Did Jesus tell Peter to fight, no just the opposite. Jesus warned us that to follow him would invite ridicule, torture, hatred even death but he has never told us to “rise up” only that we keep faith in him. Look at the persecution of the early church. Did they stand and fight or meet thier enemies not with derision and hate but love. How many of our early bretheren went to thier deaths willingly without anger or distress (think of St. Stephen).

Cardinal Dolan is doing exactly what Christ would want him to do. Meeting our enemies and those who would persecute us not with hate but love. And for that he is the better man. God bless him.
 
yukonbrad said:
This is exactly the time to do this and “radical stand” you seem to treat the church like a political and not religous entity. The us versus them mentality that many of my brothers and sisters south of the border seem to embrace is quite distressing and not in keeping with the doctine of the Church or in the message of Christ. Do you understand the message Christ brought to the world? Of what it means to be christian and indeed Catholic?

Your remarks remind me of Peter in the garden when they came for Jesus drawing his sword looking for a fight. Did Jesus tell Peter to fight, no just the opposite. Jesus warned us that to follow him would invite ridicule, torture, hatred even death but he has never told us to “rise up” only that we keep faith in him. Look at the persecution of the early church. Did they stand and fight or meet thier enemies not with derision and hate but love. How many of our early bretheren went to thier deaths willingly without anger or distress (think of St. Stephen).

Cardinal Dolan is doing exactly what Christ would want him to do. Meeting our enemies and those who would persecute us not with hate but love. And for that he is the better man. God bless him.
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I see what you are saying. Still, it seems as though your advice might be, just let the persecution happen.

Well, it will, under Obama. There’s no doubt of that. But there is a difference between expecting persecution, and simply speaking the truth. Those in power need to hear truth and to hear it distinctly. We can start with truth about abortion, about homosexual marriage, about forcing violation of conscience.
 
JimG said:
I see what you are saying. Still, it seems as though your advice might be, just let the persecution happen.

Well, it will, under Obama. There’s no doubt of that. But there is a difference between expecting persecution, and simply speaking the truth. Those in power need to hear truth and to hear it distinctly. We can start with truth about abortion, about homosexual marriage, about forcing violation of conscience.
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Indeed speak the truth but lets not repay thier hate and hostility with our own, it lowers us and does not further our own growth in Christ. At times it seems some want to declare some sort of holy war or modern day crusade on those who oppose us - this is not what we as christians are supposed to do. There is a great difference between speaking the truth and standing by our convictions as Catholics and by waging a war of hate and division - in fact this is what our opponets want us to do. By meeting thier hate with our own it only fuels their resolve and that will defeat us in the end, meet them with love and they have no response to offer.
 
yukonbrad said:
Indeed speak the truth but lets not repay thier hate and hostility with our own, it lowers us and does not further our own growth in Christ. At times it seems some want to declare some sort of holy war or modern day crusade on those who oppose us - this is not what we as christians are supposed to do. There is a great difference between speaking the truth and standing by our convictions as Catholics and by waging a war of hate and division - in fact this is what our opponets want us to do. By meeting thier hate with our own it only fuels their resolve and that will defeat us in the end, meet them with love and they have no response to offer.
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Honestly, I do not see a lot of hate from Catholics and Christians. Compare the pro-gay response Chick-fil-A brouhaha with the Christian response. Often speaking the truth is taken by the other side to be hate. It is not.
 
yukonbrad said:
This is exactly the time to do this and “radical stand” you seem to treat the church like a political and not religous entity. The us versus them mentality that many of my brothers and sisters south of the border seem to embrace is quite distressing and not in keeping with the doctine of the Church or in the message of Christ. Do you understand the message Christ brought to the world? Of what it means to be christian and indeed Catholic?

Your remarks remind me of Peter in the garden when they came for Jesus drawing his sword looking for a fight. Did Jesus tell Peter to fight, no just the opposite. Jesus warned us that to follow him would invite ridicule, torture, hatred even death but he has never told us to “rise up” only that we keep faith in him. Look at the persecution of the early church. Did they stand and fight or meet thier enemies not with derision and hate but love. How many of our early bretheren went to thier deaths willingly without anger or distress (think of St. Stephen).

Cardinal Dolan is doing exactly what Christ would want him to do. Meeting our enemies and those who would persecute us not with hate but love. And for that he is the better man. God bless him.
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👍
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The Cardinal filed a lawsuit against the administration.
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I think you missed the point of my post. (Obviously, Cardinal filed a lawsuit against the administration, and Romney did not.)

My point was: It makes no sense to use Romney as an example of sitting down to dinner with Obama. He has no legal beef with the president.

The Cardinal does have a beef – a huge one on behalf of Christ’s Church. Thus, it is not mystifying why some people think the Cardinal’s decision was unwise.
 
surritter said:
The Cardinal does have a beef – a huge one on behalf of Christ’s Church. Thus, it is not mystifying why some people think the Cardinal’s decision was unwise.
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The beef is not on behalf of the Church. Though I realize that some American Catholics believe that the whole of the Church is that in the United States, I cannot imagine that Catholics in the rest of the world even know about let alone care about some ruffled feathers among Americans over a dinner.

Besides, to disinvite the Democrat would necessitate disinviting the Republican. The dinner is neutral, and ought not be partisan.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
The beef is not on behalf of the Church. Though I realize that some American Catholics believe that the whole of the Church is that in the United States, I cannot imagine that Catholics in the rest of the world even know about let alone care about some ruffled feathers among Americans over a dinner.

Besides, to disinvite the Democrat would necessitate disinviting the Republican. The dinner is neutral, and ought not be partisan.
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We’ve been over this partisan/neutral bit several times, Rich. The dinner may be neutral, but the implications and aftereffects are wide-reaching. See other posts above for more.

As for the whole Church – the Obama administration is persecuting the freedom of the Catholic hierarchy, as well as individual Catholics – with its policies. That is persecuting the entire Church.

Surely you’re not of the belief that we are “American Catholics,” as if that’s different from other nationalities. Recall that St. Paul tells us that we are all one body…
 
Thaelros said:
I think it is worth mentioning that, despite the obvious risk of scandalization of the faithful, this decision begets the opportunity for Cardinal Dolan to have a little private chat with Obama and Romney, which may bear some sort of fruit.
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The progressives don’t believe that God exists, therefore, it will have no effect on Obama. Listen to the words of John Lennon’s song Imagine: no religion, one world govt so there will be no wars, no possessions. This will be a dog and pony show that the media will play up to be some sort of victorious communication epiphany. Obama’s plans are wonderfully progressive for those who believe that God does not exist.
 
surritter said:
I think you missed the point of my post. (Obviously, Cardinal filed a lawsuit against the administration, and Romney did not.)

My point was: It makes no sense to use Romney as an example of sitting down to dinner with Obama. He has no legal beef with the president.

The Cardinal does have a beef – a huge one on behalf of Christ’s Church. Thus, it is not mystifying why some people think the Cardinal’s decision was unwise.
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…and Romney is supposedly the opposite of Obama on the same matters of the lawsuit.
 
JimG said:
Honestly, I do not see a lot of hate from Catholics and Christians. Compare the pro-gay response Chick-fil-A brouhaha with the Christian response. Often speaking the truth is taken by the other side to be hate. It is not.
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There was hardly any response from gay or other groups to the CfA nonsense. Am I reading you right? Are you suggesting that those who bought all those sandwiches were all Christians who did so as a sign of their Christianity, of their devotion to Christ? :confused:
 
surritter said:
We’ve been over this partisan/neutral bit several times, Rich. The dinner may be neutral, but the implications and aftereffects are wide-reaching. See other posts above for more.
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Don’t read into it any more than is there. It’s just a dinner, and what would you want the Cardinal to do? Say, “I’ve sued your Administration, so you’re not welcome here, Mr. Obama. And lest anyone think I’m playing favorites, you stay home, too, Mr. Romney.” 🤷
As for the whole Church – the Obama administration is persecuting the freedom of the Catholic hierarchy, as well as individual Catholics – with its policies. That is persecuting the entire Church.
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Over the top hyperbole. Call me when the Obama Gestapo closes St. Patrick’s Cathedral.
Surely you’re not of the belief that we are “American Catholics,” as if that’s different from other nationalities. Recall that St. Paul tells us that we are all one body…
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You miss the point. I said that the matter of the dinner might be of some note to American Catholics in New York, if that, but not to other world-wide Catholics.
 
I can’t say who will or won’t pay attention to the dinner. But it’s a FACT that the Obama administration is persecuting the Church. Let’s at least get agreement on the basics!
 
surritter said:
I can’t say who will or won’t pay attention to the dinner. But it’s a FACT that the Obama administration is persecuting the Church. Let’s at least get agreement on the basics!
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I think that you and I have a different definition of “persecution.”
 
Again I have to respond to some disturbing comments made by certian individuals.
  1. Catholicism does NOT equal right wing political beliefs (Republican) there are many Catholics who are to the left (Democrats). We have people of faith of many political beliefs not just in America but around the world. We are united in our faith and belief in Christ Jesus NOT any political agenda.
  2. The glib and casual use of phrases and terms from the holocaust (eg Obamas’ Gestapo) is in really bad taste. YOU have NO idea what such oppression is nor have even come close to it! Such usage is childish and not in keeping with our faith. I grew up in Northern Ireland during the Troubles and even that is overshadowed by what the Jewish people endured under Nazi Germany.
Christ taught us to love our enemies and to turn the other cheek. You are quick to point out our faith’s opposition to abortion and homosexuality but seem to forget how we, as christians and indeed Catholics, are supposed to behave and treat others - even those who may denounce us.
 
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