Confiteor and Roman Canon are fading out of use

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OraLabora said:
My favourite is EP IV.
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EP IV is actually the one that I almost never hear. Almost never heard it as a child and almost never hear it now. This website calls it “The Unknown Eucharistic Prayer” and that’s about how I feel about it too.

http://shamelesspopery.com/eucharistic-prayer-iv-the-unknown-eucharistic-prayer/

I seem to recall I asked on here once why it was so rarely said, and one of the priests responded that there were other prayers that had to be said with it that couldn’t be changed, which made it more difficult to say, or something like that.
 
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Agree. EP IV is the one around here fading out of use. Sad, too. It was one of my favorites (at least in the pre-2011 translation; haven’t heard it enough in the current to say).
 
Yah the preface can’t be changed thus it is only technically possible to be said during Ordinary Time, and even then it is rare because Ordinary Time has it’s own prefaces. Eucharistic Prayer 2 has a preface as well however it can be substituted. Eucharistic Prayer 4 cannot because the theme of the Prayer is of salvation history and for whatever reason the preface cannot be changed. So it is impossible to say it on solemnities or feasts, memorials, where there is a preface specifically for those days, which Eucharistic Prayer 4 wouldn’t be eligible.
 
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Indeed, and even though the universal GIRM, as pointed out above, only calls for kneeling from (roughly, as I don’t have the copy handy and in Europe it’s not precise) epiclesis until the mysterium fidei, kneeling on those 500+ year old stone floors with my knees —— that’s plenty! Even the kneelers in those old churches and cathedrals are a device meant for penance (all wood, no padding).
 
Well it should be the same worldwide. Universal Church. Universal rubrics. If I go to Canada I shouldn’t be the weird guy kneeling and then look around and everyone is standing. That is not how the Church is supposed to be. You are supposed to be able to go anywhere in the world and know what the mass will be.
 
You need to look up the definitions of “universal” and “uniformity”. They are most definitely the same.

I can go anywhere in the world and know what the Mass will be - and it is not a matter of uniformity. You and the bishops of the world are on two different books. I would be hesitant to tell them they don’t know what they are doing.
 
Prodigal1984 said:
Well it should be the same worldwide. Universal Church. Universal rubrics. If I go to Canada I shouldn’t be the weird guy kneeling and then look around and everyone is standing. That is not how the Church is supposed to be. You are supposed to be able to go anywhere in the world and know what the mass will be.
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The Universal GIRM, that is the one issued by Rome without adaptations by various countries’ Conferences of Bishops, has had kneeling only at the Consecration since 1975 but nobody seemed to notice that until 2002 or later.
 
Prodigal1984 said:
You kneel for most of it so I don’t understand. Why do you stand during the EP?
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Not so in Canada, and most of the world. The norm is to kneel fo the consecration only. The US is an exception in that regard.

Hint: I’m in Canada, not the US.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I seem to recall I asked on here once why it was so rarely said, and one of the priests responded that there were other prayers that had to be said with it that couldn’t be changed, which made it more difficult to say, or something like that.
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Yes that’s correct, it has its own preface that is invariable. So it cannot be used when there’s a proper preface (season/saint). I’ve only ever heard it at the abbey, on weekdays of Ordinary Time. But it does come up regularly, just last week in fact.
Phemie said:
The Universal GIRM, that is the one issued by Rome without adaptations by various countries’ Conferences of Bishops, has had kneeling only at the Consecration since 1975 but nobody seemed to notice that until 2002 or later.
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Exactement. FWIW, here’s the relevant GIRM entry, for dioceses in Canada:
In the dioceses of Canada, the faithful should kneel at the Consecration, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause.53 However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. Where it is the practice for the people to remain kneeling after the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the Priest says Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God), it is laudable for this practice to be retained.
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53 Cf. ibidem, no. 40; Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction, Varietates legitimae, 25 January 1994, no. 41: Acta Apostolicae Sedis 87 (1995) p. 304

The abbey is one place where we kneel only at the consecration (and just about all parishes around me as well). However, it’s sometimes amusing. The abbey is very near the US border and we often get large contingents of US visitors. including groups. So when the Sanctus starts, you hear a loud multiple crashing sound as all the kneelers hit the ground. The monks have no kneelers. They kneel on the hard floor, as I usually do, because I always sit in the first pew as I sing the propers and ordinary with the monks. I’m grateful we only have to kneel during the consecration. It is also our practice to kneel in prayer for a few moments after communion. However I stand as I’m singing the communion antiphon, and I would also be in the way of people looping back to their pews from the cloister gate where communion is distributed.
 
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I’m just not understanding why they would make people stand when they could kneel which would be easier for older people, and also elders who may be embarrassed they do need to sit aren’t as visible.
 
Sometimes kneeling is actually harder for older people. Especially getting back up. I am an “older person” (I’m 61) and I do find getting back up difficult when I kneel unless I have something to prop myself up with. When I kneel at the consecration, the cloister barrier is what I use. For communion though, there is nothing to prop up with so I stand to receive communion.

My memory of the '60s is hazy now but I don’t recall ever kneeling more than for the consecration, and a few moments after communion.
 
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I know a few priests that wouldn’t offer Mass without using the Confiteor, Nicene Creed, nor Roman Canon.
 
You’re imposing more than the Church requires.

The Apostles Creed was allowed for Children’s Masses in the US and has been allowed in Canada for decades. The new GIRM allows it everywhere.

From the USCCB’s website “The Order of Mass”
In many Masses, the Profession of Faith then follows the homily, either the Nicene or Apostles’ Creed. The Nicene Creed is a statement of faith dating from the fourth century, while the Apostles’ Creed is the ancient baptismal creed of the Church in Rome. If baptismal promises are renewed, from a formula based on the Apostles’ Creed, this takes the place of the Creed.
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Phemie said:
You’re imposing more than the Church requires.

The Apostles Creed was allowed for Children’s Masses in the US and has been allowed in Canada for decades. The new GIRM allows it everywhere.

From the USCCB’s website “The Order of Mass”
In many Masses, the Profession of Faith then follows the homily, either the Nicene or Apostles’ Creed. The Nicene Creed is a statement of faith dating from the fourth century, while the Apostles’ Creed is the ancient baptismal creed of the Church in Rome. If baptismal promises are renewed, from a formula based on the Apostles’ Creed, this takes the place of the Creed.
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I believe the GIRM (in the U.S.) also suggests that Lent may an appropriate time to use the Apostles’ Creed rather than the Nicene Creed.
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Glennon_P said:
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Phemie:
You’re imposing more than the Church requires.

The Apostles Creed was allowed for Children’s Masses in the US and has been allowed in Canada for decades. The new GIRM allows it everywhere.

From the USCCB’s website “The Order of Mass”
In many Masses, the Profession of Faith then follows the homily, either the Nicene or Apostles’ Creed. The Nicene Creed is a statement of faith dating from the fourth century, while the Apostles’ Creed is the ancient baptismal creed of the Church in Rome. If baptismal promises are renewed, from a formula based on the Apostles’ Creed, this takes the place of the Creed.
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I believe the GIRM (in the U.S.) also suggests that Lent may an appropriate time to use the Apostles’ Creed rather than the Nicene Creed.
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I’ve looked for it in the GIRM and can’t find it but sources say it’s in the Missal itself. The only thing I can find is this
  1. The Symbol or Creed is sung or recited by the Priest together with the people (cf. no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est, etc. (and by the Holy Spirit . . . and became man) all make a profound bow; but on the Solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.
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Prodigal1984 said:
they could kneel which would be easier for older people
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it’s the other way around - kneeling is very hard on the knees and for some people it can also be hard on the back too, and as OraLabora said it is difficult to get back up. I’m usually still rising after those around me are standing. Like OraLabora, I have difficulty getting up unless I have something in front such as a communion rail on which to push myself up from, and some days without that prop I need someone to pull me up.
 
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