–Incorrect. In the Catholic Church, an infant has to be baptized as soon as practical; “without delay”. This is a Sacrament. Any other type of baptism outside the Church(such as baptism for the dead) doesn’t count for anything.Upon death, the soul immediately leaves the body.
Since we were speaking about Paul’s choice to be baptized in the Church if Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, your point is irrelevant. As to whether a Catholic infant must be baptized, I am aware of that, which is why I mentioned confirmation, not baptism, in my post.
–And that’s fine. That works for you. But Joe Smith and his cohorts used to drink up a storm.
Joseph Smith and the very early members of the church drank occasionally, yes…but not ‘up a storm.’ Not even his worst critics can point to a time when the man was even slightly sloshed, never mind ‘drunk,’ and nobody here has denied that he enjoyed a glass of wine now and again. OR that he 'had a alcoholic beverages in his home.
Big whoop.
Who the heck are they to create policy that anyone can’t drink alcohol or coffee?
Actually,
they did not. When Joseph had that revelation, it was simply health advice; a good idea, but no sin was attached to not paying attention; no commandment involved, even for the prophet himself.
After his murder, however, Brigham Young was faced with a huge problem; moving a great number of very disheartened people, AGAIN, from their hard-earned homes and property. This time, they were legal prey, it was in the middle of one of the nastier winters…not a fun time.
One of the things that we did was to make a covenant with God…something that Catholics do quite often, by the way…to separate ourselves from the world a bit. One of the ways we chose to do that was to take parts of the Word of Wisdom, and take them from ‘health advice’ to a “We promise to abstain from these things.”
Even so, nobody was asked about Word of Wisdom observance in a Temple Recommend interview until early in the twentieth century.
Now I think you can count, yes? Joseph was murdered in 1844…and the abstaining from coffee, tea, alcohol and tobacco wasn’t required for a Temple Recommend for more than sixty years after that.
I find it amazing that anti-Mormons and critics expect our early leaders to have lived by policies that weren’t enacted for close to six decades after they died.
Joe Smith was in ‘religion’ for money and control. Typical con man perceptions, is all.
For a man who was in for the money and control, he sure died broke and powerless. (shrug)
By the way. I like the name 'Joe." My grandfather, who was also a Joseph, went by 'Joe" all his life. He preferred it.
However, Joseph Smith never went by the diminutive. None of his friends or family called him 'Joe." Only his enemies did. the men who killed him did. the men who tarred and feathered him (and who were directly responsible for the death of his son by doing so) did.
It is a red flag. We know that those who refer to him as “Joe” have no intention of having a civil discussion, of respecting our beliefs or our culture. It is a sign of disdain, and a pretty good indication that a reasonable debate is unlikely, let alone a pleasant conversation.
Personally, I don’t give a rats…what you think of Joseph Smith or any of our early leaders—or of the doctrine I believe in. I’m just letting you know that if you want to have a civil conversation about LDS beliefs with a Mormon, then a little respect is in order.
Not for our beliefs…if you agreed with our beliefs you’d BE LDS. Since you are not, I think we can take it as a given that you disagree with them. It would be nice if you disagreed with what they actually ARE, rather than the strawmen you’ve been setting fire to, but one thing at a time.
However, a little respect for the fact that we really believe this stuff, and that nobody ever changed religions because his own has been sufficiently insulted, would be a better way to start a conversation.
It’s up to you, of course.
By the way.
Kolob is a star, not a planet. God does not live there. Simple things like that are worth knowing if you want to mock people’s beliefs.
Both too crowded.