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BlueEyedLady
Guest
And there are many that don’t. It doesn’t matter though, if a woman is told that an abortion will save her life what the doctors in your link or a congressman say won’t matter to her at that very moment.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Without a doubt. However, a Catholic can not kill an innocent to save a life (even her own). If treatment causes the death of the baby (unintentionally), there is no moral problem.
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CaptFun
Guest
CaptFun responds in RED below. 
God is love. Love is patient. But He is also JUST against injustices. If we find ourselves going along with “the wrong side” in little or big ways in the abortion war out of FEAR of some sort. Jesus has some counsel for us.
Matthew 10:28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
… how much less should we fear the raised eyebrow, PC tsk-tsking, unpleasant tones of voice or social demotion. Buuuut we do.
And you closed with a reference to the Lord. Good job.Slow down. Maybe he means that it’s not necessary to actively try to kill the baby (this is what abortion is) to save the life of the mother. - I’d elevate Maybe to “Probably” bordering on “Of course” as the lead to your otherwise insightful and cogent sentence.
A baby can be removed while trying to save the baby’s life instead of trying to kill the baby. YOU must be talking about those people called DOCTORS who always try to*** HELP*** people live longer and better! Although if it’s still part of medical training for some reason … Killing IS easier!
If the baby that was removed dies while trying to save the baby this is called the principle of double effect which is not the same thing as abortion. - although pro-abortion apologists will win a smugness contest and exhibit great skills in emotional range and the recitation of well-crafted self-justifying cliches; you will learn nothing as valuable from them as the intelligence displayed in livingwordunity’s sentence here.
It’s beyond my inferior mortal reasoning to understand how God has the patience he does with a culture that thinks a mother has a right to murder her own child. :sad_yes:
God is love. Love is patient. But He is also JUST against injustices. If we find ourselves going along with “the wrong side” in little or big ways in the abortion war out of FEAR of some sort. Jesus has some counsel for us.
Matthew 10:28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
… how much less should we fear the raised eyebrow, PC tsk-tsking, unpleasant tones of voice or social demotion. Buuuut we do.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Maybe thats why so many Catholic women use contraception.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
There are cases in the medical literature of abdominal ectopic pregnancies that have survived and yet abortions are done for ectopic pregnancy
2000 healthy girl delivered in Nottigham, United Kingdom and spent most of gestation attached to mother’s lining of bowels; 1999, healthy boy delivered in London, was implanted in mother’s fallopian tube. 2008, healthy girl delivered in Australia and was an ovary based ectopic pregnancy. 2005, healthy girl born in Herefordshire, Uk, baby spent all of pregnancy in mother’s abdomen
As for maternal mortality, Center for disease control say in the US pregnancy related mortality rate is .0118%. 8475 live births for each pregnancy related death
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Yeah, some women are lucky enough to beat the odds but they are exceptions.
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SusansChoice
Guest
Many, many years ago I was pregnant. Earlier that year my only child had died so I was grateful for another chance. Not long after finding out I was pregnant, I went to the hospital in excruciating pain. I had an ectopic pregnancy. The fallopian tube had already ruptured. The other 3 women who shared my hospital room were frantically ringing the nurse’s station insisting they do something. Although I initially refused to consider a termination, my Dr. was insistant and made it clear that I would die and the baby would die regardless of my choice. It’s not a hard to be persuaded when you are delirious with pain.
In my case the affected fallopian tube was removed. The death of the child is considered an unfortunate indirect consequence and is considered an acceptable treatment by the Catholic Church. There are other methods in which medication is given that directly destroys the child and leaves the tube in tact. That is not acceptable.
How fortunate for the many people who have not been forced to make such a difficult decision. It’s funny how you can loose your piousness when one of your internal organs is bursting.
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UNITE_MY_WILL
Guest
Agreed. It’s not either/or but, both/and. IMO as a mother, I would opt to try saving both. If the unthinkable should happen I would pray for peace and comfort or be with my Lord. I don’t understand how where the “location” of my child changes the lengths I would go to protect him/her.
Peace,
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Nicely put, ma’am
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
I am very sorry for both your losses. Prayers offered.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
It is impossible to know because not every ectopic pregancy is taken to term, the baby is aborted. This baby had a 95% of death and survived
It is in the first place abortion which increases the risk of ectopic prgenancy. 1 abortion increases risk by 30%; 160% higher risk after 2 or more abortions
This study revealed from previous studies that 40% of first diagnoses of ectopic pregnancy are wrong
Direct abortion for an ectopic pregnancy is unnecessary. Either medical intervention or waiting for the pregnancy to resolve should be done
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anthony022071
Guest
Let’s think logically about this. The life of an unborn child is never itself a cause of death to the mother,and so there is no causal necessity between killing an unborn child and saving the mother. Dangerous complications in pregnancy (such as a ruptured fallopian tube) are a different thing from the life of the unborn child.
In any case,innocent human beings must never be intentionally killed under any circumstances. The life of a pregnant woman is not of more value than the life of her unborn child,and the moral necessity of preserving the life of her child does not depend upon the pain that the mother feels or what the doctor thinks,or whether there is a possibility of natural death.
In any case,innocent human beings must never be intentionally killed under any circumstances. The life of a pregnant woman is not of more value than the life of her unborn child,and the moral necessity of preserving the life of her child does not depend upon the pain that the mother feels or what the doctor thinks,or whether there is a possibility of natural death.
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mab23
Guest
IM a Catholic Liberal. liberal when it comes to Unions, Catholic when it comes to everything else!
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Regina_Love
Guest
Contraception Kills…Maybe thats why so many Catholic women use contraception.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Less than 1% of oral contraceptive users experience a higher rate of death and all due to circumstances completely unrelated to contraception use. A recently published study which followed over 46,000 contraceptive users for a period of 39 years found “Oral contraception was not associated with an increased long term risk of death…”
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Rand_Al_Thor
Guest
I suspect Regina was referring to many contraceptives acting as abortifacs, meaning they are killing the unborn, not the women taking them.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
So are pomegranates
I don’t consider the failure of an egg to be fertilized to be abortion. It happens to women every month.
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ProVobis
Guest
I agree with him, but aren’t Republicans notorious of being anti-science or anti-math?
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ProVobis
Guest
Exactly.
I wonder how posters here would vote for this same Congressman if he were to switch parties overnight for some reason. Imagine the person you intend to vote for switches his party. Would you still vote for him or her? That is usually my test before I vote.
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Nimzovik
Guest
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