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jediliz
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Yep…not only does it act as an abortifacent, but THE PILL also is a LEVEL ONE Carcinogen…
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The_Scott
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Nor do Catholics consider contraception (such as condoms, for example, not the morning after pill or Plan B) to be abortions. However, both are intrinsically immoral and against the natural law.So are pomegranatesI don’t consider the failure of an egg to be fertilized to be abortion. It happens to women every month.
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He_Man
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Duh. Since he was speaking as a politician and not your OB, that’s probably a good idea.
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Julia_Mae
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Not with me, with the AMA, The WHO and the AGA.
You know, 50 percent of all doctors finished in the bottom half of their class. Most of them are available for court testimony in whiplash cases and giving opinions that contradict the AMA and the accepted standard of care. Like yours.
When medical care is getting better and better, why are more women dying from being pregnant?
Maternal indications for medical abortion include autoimmune disease, severe heart disease, cystic fibrosis, chronic kidney disease, sickle cell disease, diabetic retinopathy, cancer, intrauterine infection, premature rupture of membranes, not to mention the standards like pre-eclampsia that is unresponsive to treatment and infection of the fetus that will kill the mother.
This is why the decision needs to be left to the woman and her doctor. And not to politicians or forum mavens. You, as a devout a Catholic, may choose to die with your unborn child. Others don’t wish to. I believe Rick Santorum’s wife was one who did not.
And BTW, we are like 45th in maternal death rate in the US. So how is all this medical care helping these women stay alive when 44 countries are safer to be pregnant in?
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EmperorNapoleon
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That may be Catholic doctrine but it isn’t reflected in Catholic practice. Classifying it as against “natural law” doesn’t make it so; there are plenty of other animals that kill their young when it is known that they posses some sort of defect. It isn’t against natural law to kill offspring; only modern religious values. Abortion in the human population is as at least as old as documented history. Forced abortion is even mentioned in the Bible as an, apparently, acceptable act of war (see Hosea 14:1 among others).
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He_Man
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Or why Muslims blow people up?Maybe thats why so many Catholic women use contraception.
Just because people disobey the teachings of a faith doesn’t mean the faith doesn’t have those teachings.
If your point is that people are going to do whatever they choose to, well that may be true, but has nothing to do with religion, and could be used in almost any topic ever.
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oldcelt
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Good post…what is amazing to me is how cavalier people can be when it is someone else’s health in question.
John
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The_Scott
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First, there is no reason or moral law with animals. Thus, there is no “wrong” with what they do, since they do not possess rationality.
Second, natural law doesn’t refer to some “animalistic” (I use that term neutrally, not as a pejorative) or environmental aspect of the world. Animals don’t wear clothes made of wool that were created with machines - that doesn’t mean it’s against the so-called “natural law.”
Natural law refers to the idea that everything must meet its natural end. That is over-simplified, but basically the gist. This website summarizes natural law philosophy much better than I can ever do: aquinasonline.com/Topics/natlaw.html
Let me give you an example. Let’s look at a bulimic teenager. After he eats, he immediately vomits his food back up. You would say that something is wrong with him, correct? To him, vomiting his food makes him feel better with his self-image! The digestive tract of the body is designed to - you guessed it - digest food and give us those nutrients. If we unnaturally, or externally, “block” that purpose of the digestive system, such as vomiting it up, then we are breaking the natural law of the digestive tract.
In another example, lying is breaking the law of speech, which is to communicate with people for some goodness.
For the elderly and fatally ill, the natural law means their natural end is a natural death. That takes away euthanasia. Same thing could apply for abortion, in the case of the child in the womb not being healthy. Of course, that doesn’t mean we can’t not help the child or mother. Likewise, for the sexual organs, that means conception of a child and union of the couple. That takes away contraception.
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He_Man
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You’re thinking of them being homophobic and racist. Plus, they keep women in binders, just to create fake outrage from feminists.I agree with him, but aren’t Republicans notorious of being anti-science or anti-math?
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He_Man
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I am equally amazed at Catholics who can be so cavalier with definitive Church teachings. For Catholics, what is the point of even discussing something the Church has made clear?
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He_Man
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Don’t tell the atheists who are against killing each other that they are adhering to mdoern religious practices.
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The_Scott
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I just realized you edited the post while I was typing my previous reply. Sorry for the confusion.
Regarding “Abortion in human population…”: just because an act has been known since forever doesn’t mean it is morally right. Murder of innocents in war has been known since documented history - that doesn’t make it moral.
And regarding God condoning abortion: this may be a cop-out answer to you, since you are agnostic. But God is the creator of all things, and he can take away things at his will with his own power. He took away the life of my ancestors, both my grandfathers, my beloved grandmother. He took away your ancestors as well, and (maybe) your beloved relatives. We are mere creations - very insignificant. He gave us the moral law to follow. He didn’t give it to himself. I’m sure you’ve read around here regarding the sacraments, along the lines of, “God created the Sacraments, but he is not bound by the Sacraments.” Same thing with the moral law.
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april32010
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when we aren’t worshiping Mary and graven images,don’t forget the graven images. thats the best part
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He_Man
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I keep them in my wallet.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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radixlecti
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NeedImprovement
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I’m sure some other members here along with myself would find it enlightening to be provided with a list and links substantiating and identifying all " these plenty of other animals that kill their young when it is known that they possess some sort of defect."
Furthermore,even if it were substantiable , the above argument is baseless because the example proposed is incongruent . The poster is referring to the killing of offspring after they’ve been born. . . which incidentally from the human perspective , is defined as murder , everywhere - in the natural law, in moral/ethical law, in civil law - regardless of religion.
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EmperorNapoleon
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Moral is not the same as natural. Morality is a human social construct not a natural law.
The instance mentioned above was not God killing fetuses; it was man killing fetuses allegedly with God’s blessing. Do I think its a cop-out? Sure. Whats the point of religiously based morality when anyone can simply say that they are exempt from God’s moral code because God told them to commit infanticide? Indeed, commanding humans to commit such immoral acts as infanticide and/or exempting itself from morality is not something I would expect from a being which is supposedly the epitome of moral goodness.
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RACJ
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So, you’d vote for someone who believes in killing them all (when chosen, of course)? Wow. Sad.
Rob
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_Abyssinia
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That study looking at whether a person takes contraception and dies with in a short time or long term affects which I bet are difficult to prove scientifically if you get something, that it was caused by contraception but it might of been
Birth control pill has been grouped as a class 1 carcinogen with tobacco and asbestos by arm of the World Health Organisation, International agency for research on cancer
apps.who.int/bookorders/anglais/detart1.jsp?sesslan=1&codlan=1&codcol=75&codcch=405
monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Preamble/Preamble-IntReport.pdf
Contain Cancer-causing ChemicalCondoms
Researchers from the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center published a study in the 2012 Journal of Cancer Research. They looked at depo provera and found it doubles the risk of breast cancer
Box of depro provera says it can mean loss of significant bone mineral density which explains why it has been linked to osteoporosis
List continues with other negative health effects from contraception
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Z1Z2
Guest
There most certainly ARE illnesses that can put a woman’s health at so much risk that to continue the pregnancy could kill her! Preeclampsia and eclampsia end many pregnancies worldwide because the mother’s life is at risk. Now, granted, most of the time, the pregnancy is far enough along that the the baby will end up in the NICU, and no one is pushing is abortion. What you blithely dismissed as treatment is management - and that is not the same thing at all! Treatment implies removing the threat. However, there is no treatment that is effective long term. If preeclampsia happens early enough in the pregnancy, a woman will be delivering early to save her life. The goal is balance the mother’s health and the baby’s heath if delivered too early. Unfortunately, the threat of preeclampsia does not go away with bedrest. Why do you think they do the early delivery that you admitted to, if not because of the risk to the mother is the pregnancy continues?? If preeclampsia was not a risk to the mother’s life, one of the major contributors to the fact that 12% of all US births are premature would go away.
“Globally, preeclampsia and other hypertensive disorders of pregnancy are a leading cause of maternal and infant illness and death. By conservative estimates, these disorders are responsible for 76,000 maternal and 500,000 infant deaths each year.” source is the Preeclampsia Foundation.
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