"Consenting adults"

[Charlemagne_III]

Hi meltzerboy Anyway, Christians should work to convert hearts, and then virtue will follow. The Law of the state forcing virtue doesn’t lead to virtue: just unhappy people.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

Actually, there is no way the state cannot encourage (though not force) virtue and does just that with many of its laws prohibiting vice. Many of our older citizens can remember in their youth when certain things were prohibited by the state that are now actually aided and abetted by the state. Whereas pornography used to be rare because it was prohibited, it now floods our culture because the state has made it legal. Whereas marijuana used to be rare because it was prohibited, it is now commonly used because the state has made it legal. Whereas divorce used to be difficult because the state made it difficult, it is now more common than marriage because the state has made it legal, and with its legalization all kinds of unanticipated consequences have created moral and educational and financial havoc in our society. Whereas abortion used to be rare because the state prohibited it, it is now not only common but supported by taxpayer contributions to Planned Parenthood which is a homicidal criminal syndicate butchering babies for their body parts.

 

[Godconvertedme]

However, these consenting adults are not your children. If you truly love them, I think you should leave them alone and let them use their own mind to make their own decisions according to their own moral, spiritual, and religious values, not according to yours.

Adults or children, in order for me to love them, I must tell them the Truth. Which is, what they are doing is immoral and will end them up in hell. Not telling them the Truth ends with me in hell, because I knew the Truth and did nothing. Moral, Spiritual and Religious values are not relative, they are concrete and designed by God. If someone believes something different then what God believes, they are enslaved to a lie. I don’t let people go on being bound to lies. If you knew something was going to hurt someone you loved, you would stay silent?

 

[Bradski]

What “consenting adults do in their own time” affects others.

What some consenting adults do does affect other people. But we are not discussing those. We are asking if it is anybody’s business what consenting adults do** if it does not affect anyone else.**

 

[Bradski]

Adults or children, in order for me to love them, I must tell them the Truth.

If you are at a dinner party, do you go around asking every couple what they were doing in the privacy of their own homes the night before? Do you actually make it your business to make sure they haven’t been doing anything that you believe to be immoral?

‘June, I love you dearly, and I hope you don’t mind me asking, but I just need to know if you had anal sex last night’.

 

[Godconvertedme]

But what are you telling them the truth about? The fact that whatever it is they are doing is none of your business means that you have no idea what they are doing. Do you ask all your friends what they get up to in private? If you do then I can’t see you having a very busy social life.

If you believe that what people do IS your business, then could you explain to me how you go about making it so? You are going to need to know what they are doing. Are you going to ask everyone you meet?

I have no problem with you deciding to tell everyone you meet what you consider to be immoral behaviour but I have the strongest possible objection to you asking people what they do in private so you can make a judgement on it. If you were to ask me, then the discussion would not end well, as I’m sure it wouldn’t if someone asked your wife what she was doing with you last night. I’m pretty certain that your response would be unqualified:

‘Buddy, it’s none of your damn business’.

I make it my business, because I love them and I know the Truth. The Truth is, sex outside of marriage is immoral, and homosexual sex is immoral. For me to stay silent and not speak the Truth puts my Soul in jeopardy. If you know your friend, loved one or even a stranger was doing something that was putting them at risk of harm you would just stay silent? The Truth isn’t relative, it’s concrete and given by God. When someone believes something contrary to the Truth given by God, they are believing a lie. They are enslaved to a lie. Sex is designed by God for the procreation of children inside of marriage. A marriage between a man and a women. Just because YOU don’t believe that, doesn’t make it true. Yes, yes I know you can say the same to me, but I stand on the Truth as given to me by God. Yes, yes you can say the same, “well God told me it was ok” except you would be lying and you know it. I am not lying and I do know the Truth as given by God. The proof I give is this very statement, why on Gods green earth would I subject myself to this very unpopular view unless I was instructed personally by God to have such a view? Homosexuality was rampant during the time of Christ and the years following, but the Church has never held the view it was ok. One would think if homosexuality was ok with God, the teachings of the Church, of any Christian church would have shown some hint of it, but here we are 2000 years after Christ, trying to make Christ ok with something He clearly wasn’t ok with. Our very world screams this isn’t ok but you want to deny it. Aids, other sexually transmitted deseases, highest among whom? Homosexuals, people with multiple sex partners, and people that have sex outside of marriage. Please, you don’t have to go far to see the Truth, God has made it quite clear. Just because you have chosen not to see it, doesn’t make any less there. It just makes you blind and ignorant.

 

[Godconvertedme]

If you are at a dinner party, do you go around asking every couple what they were doing in the privacy of their own homes the night before? Do you actually make it your business to make sure they haven’t been doing anything that you believe to be immoral?

‘June, I love you dearly, and I hope you don’t mind me asking, but I just need to know if you had anal sex last night’.

Sigh, this statement is stupid and you know it.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

I make it my business, because I love them and I know the Truth.

And other people believe they know what is true. You have to demonstrate that not only is what you are saying is true, but demonstrate that what people do in the privacy of their own homes by consenting adults would cause harm to others that should be stopped.

Remember no one is saying that you can’t speak out against certain acts. We all have that right. No, what we’re talking about is putting measures in place to prevent such acts from happening due to the harm that could potentially come to others.

The Truth is, sex outside of marriage is immoral, and homosexual sex is immoral. For me to stay silent and not speak the Truth puts my Soul in jeopardy. If you know your friend, loved one or even a stranger was doing something that was putting them at risk of harm you would just stay silent?

Again, no one is saying that you don’t have the right to speak out against what you feel is immoral. Do you believe that homosexual sex is such that we as a society should enact laws preventing it from occurring.

The Truth isn’t relative, it’s concrete and given by God. /snip/ Please, you don’t have to go far to see the Truth, God has made it quite clear. Just because you have chosen not to see it, doesn’t make any less there. It just makes you blind and ignorant.

You must understand that when dealing with a pluralistic society that there will be those who either don’t believe in your god or don’t believe your god wants the same limitations that you believe God does,

To put it more succinctly: There are a great many people who are convince Truth (with a capital T) is often not true.

 

[Bradski]

I make it my business, because I love them and I know the Truth. The Truth is, sex outside of marriage is immoral, and homosexual sex is immoral. For me to stay silent and not speak the Truth puts my Soul in jeopardy. If you know your friend, loved one or even a stranger was doing something that was putting them at risk of harm you would just stay silent?

This is the problem that you don’t want to seem to address. How do you know what people, and not just friends and relatives – this means literally everyone, are doing in the privacy of their own homes if it affects no-one else?

Sigh, this statement is stupid and you know it.

It’s entirely apt. If you don’t ask questions like this, then how do you know if anyone is doing anything at all that you consider immoral? Let’s say I’m a member of your church and we meet socially. What approach do you use to find out if my partner and I are acting immorally in the privacy of our own home? Do you have one that doesn’t result in me asking you to walk outside into the carpark to discuss this further?

 

[Godconvertedme]

What some consenting adults do does affect other people. But we are not discussing those. We are asking if it is anybody’s business what consenting adults do** if it does not affect anyone else.**

Everything, anyone does affects others. We do not live on deserted islands. Two men having sex in a bedroom alone does affect everyone. As does a married couple having sex and having a child, it effects everyone. Sin effects everyone, not just the two doing it. That is your misconception and I would ask you kindly to stop thinking it. Unfortunately, homosexuals don’t keep there sexuality in the bedroom. They have to try to have laws enacted giving themselves special status. They have to encourage others to join in their sin. They want others to except their sin as “natural” The deseases they spread effects others, millions of dollars combating illness. Aids is a disease that effects who primarily? Homosexual men. There is a reason most if not all blood banks eont except homosexual males blood. The risk is two high. GOD Has shown the world the Truth, you are all just to blind to see it.

 

[on_the_hill]

‘June, I love you dearly, and I hope you don’t mind me asking, but I just need to know if you had anal sex last night’.

Sigh, this statement is stupid and you know it.

Actually, I don’t think it’s stupid at all. I think it’s fairly accurate.

 

[on_the_hill]

Anyway, Christians should work to convert hearts, and then virtue will follow. The Law of the state forcing virtue doesn’t lead to virtue: just unhappy people.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[Bradski]

Two men having sex in a bedroom alone does affect everyone.

We can discuss this once we find out how you know what everyone is doing. We need to find that out before we can discuss whether they should be doing it or not and, more specifically, it is any of your business.

So, one more time…how do you know what everyone is doing in the privacy of their own homes? It’s not a hard question, surely.

 

[on_the_hill]

Everything, anyone does affects others.

Two men having sex in a bedroom alone does affect everyone.

Sin effects everyone, not just the two doing it.

How?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

We can discuss this once we find out how you know what everyone is doing. We need to find that out before we can discuss whether they should be doing it or not and, more specifically, it is any of your business.

This is an irrational line of reasoning. But it is typical of atheists who seem to have no morals and want you to prove to them why they should.

I agree with Godconverted me. There is just no getting through to some people when they have not only banished God but also have argued the right to immorality so long as it is between adults behind closed doors. Yes, of course. Most likely it will have to be behind closed doors because they would get arrested if it was done in public.

So far as I know, no one in this thread has said we should invade homes to see if we can catch perverts in the act.

So why are you insisting that this is what we should be talking about?

 

[meltzerboy]

This is an irrational line of reasoning. But it is typical of atheists who seem to have no morals and want you to prove to them why they should.

I agree with Godconverted me. There is just no getting through to some people when they have not only banished God but also have argued the right to immorality so long as it is between adults behind closed doors. Yes, of course. Most likely it will have to be behind closed doors because they would get arrested if it was done in public.

So far as I know, no one in this thread has said we should invade homes to see if we can catch perverts in the act.

So why are you insisting that this is what we should be talking about?

By perverts, do you mean only homosexuals or also heterosexuals having sex in ways that are unacceptable and immoral according to your beliefs?

 

[Randy_Carson]

The death penalty was required only if there were at least two reliable eyewitnesses to the crime, which probably meant the couple would have had to have flaunted their sinful behavior in public.

Deuteronomy 22:22-24
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. 23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

 

[Randy_Carson]

The difference is that if consenting adults are committing adultery then there are one or two parties being wronged. That’s not equivilant to a couple spending the afternoon engaging in some decidedly non-reproductive intimacy in their own home.

The OP did not specify the marital status of the parties…only that they were consenting adults.

The libertine argument might be made that if the other spouse NEVER found out, then what harm has been done?

 

[Randy_Carson]

‘Others’ means ‘other than themselves’. I don’t believe I had to explain that.

Is what my partner and I did last night as consenting adults any of your business?

If you can answer that, you can answer the OP.

Yes.

Each and every homosexual couple engaging in sexual activity contributes to the desensitization of our society to things that are offensive to God.

That is “business” that affects everyone. :sad_yes:

 

[meltzerboy]

Deuteronomy 22:22-24
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. 23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

And so it seems without the help of the Oral Torah (Talmud) in filling in the gaps of interpretation in the Written Torah, including plain-spoken text. Without the Talmud, the Torah seems as though G-d’s punishment is often swift and vindictive, which is exactly the way some people who are non-believers interpret it. Yet even in the Torah proper, there are repeated verses indicating the love and mercy of G-d. Finally, remember that all verses must be read in both literary and historical, cultural context. Deuteronomy is a summation of the previous four books of the Torah and so it may appear abrupt and matter-of-fact in its presentation.

 

[Bradski]

This is an irrational line of reasoning.

It’s the first line of reasoning. If you say that it IS your business what people do in private, then you need to explain how you know what they are doing. And please, no facile arguments along the lines of ‘they are homosexual, what else would they be doing’.

We are NOT talking about homosexuality or indeed sex. We are discussing whether it is any of your business what I and my partner do in the privacy of our own home. What we do is irrelevant to the question, unless you’d maybe like to qualify it: ‘It’s my business if I think it’s immoral’. And then we’re back to the same, first and foremost question: How do you know that what I and my partner do is immoral?

So far as I know, no one in this thread has said we should invade homes to see if we can catch perverts in the act.

Who’s talking about perverts? Why all this talk of sex? If it’s your business what everyone does in privacy, on the stated assumption that it affects no-one else at all, how do you know what everyone is doing to make it your business?

I’ll make it personal again: Is it any of your business what I and my partner were doing at home last night?