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Conservative Cardinal [Burke] Who Clashed With Pope Francis Confirms He Has Been Ousted
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K
KEP1983
Guest
DaddyGirl:
The Pope isn’t infallible when making pastoral judgements, picking good bishops to lead synods, making statements in interviews, playing fantasy football, baking a good apple pie, or discussing nuclear physics. He is only infallible when making a binding declaration on faith or morals-- which rarely happens.Ouch.
That doesn’t sound so good; to imply that of the “Vicar of Christ”.
G
gilliam
Guest
The Holy Father has let it be known that he will keep silent during the synod and listen. He will speak when it concludes. If you are worried, now is the time to pray to the Holy Spirit that the bishops are guided now and throughout this year of discussions.well, very good for you for believing that but it does not take away from what I have said about His Holiness or Cardinal Burke. To say that the Pope’s silence while Cardinal Kasper and the media go round placing all sorts of remarks on his lips in the public (some remarks clearly heretical) tthat this does no damage to the church is to live in denial. and to say those who urge him publicly to give clarification are wrong who know the damage makes no sense because we on the ground know the damage is not made up but true how many catholics have I read just this week alone who have their families their students their parishioners all insisting that now they all can get communion and gay rights is ok by the pope? most of us have given the pope all the benefit of the doubt from his appointment to all media scandals but at some point one needs reassurance that we are not the ones imposing on the pope by giving him the benefit of doubt. the Lord said to Peter “I have prayed for yu that your faith may not fail and when you have returned, confirm your brethren” It is this confirmation the brethren are seeking from our Pope from all over.
Also, no one, especially from outside, forces the Holy Father to speak. He speaks when it is the right time to speak.
L
lakotak
Guest
Could it be that the Pope figures if he does break his silence, at this point, it could have an influence on the discussions within the Synod that he said he does not want restrained, but open and frank?
T
Tigg
Guest
He himself does not sound unhappy or disappointed with the move.
That’s correct and I think he displays a true spirit of sacrifice, humility and service in his answer.On the other hand, in the church as priests, we always have to be ready to accept whatever assignment we’re given. And so I trust that by accepting this assignment, I trust that God will bless me, and that’s what’s in the end most important. And even though I would have liked to have continued to work in the Apostolic Signatura, I’ll give myself to whatever is the new work that I’m assigned to…
C
coachkfan1
Guest
Agree completely. Over the past year there has been a lot of confusion about a lot of things. God is not the author of confusion.Excuse me but how do you know there are no heretics? some of the suggestions are so new and if they gain ground they may be subject to a papal or conciliar definition. some even with current church teaching are bordering on the heretical already. for example, the seemingly positive affirmation of monogamous gay relationships.
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Tigg
Guest
I personally would be very careful with this kind of comment. Card Burke has always displayed exceptional fidelity to the Church. He himself said in an interview, one of his concerns was that bishops and priests are telling him Catholics who are not properly disposed to receive them, are now beginning to come forward wanting to be admitted to the Sacraments! The media and these reports are harming the faithful. I believe his concern is for the people of God.Cardinal Burke seems like a passionate man who loves the Church. However, he has made some very confrontational statements towards Pope Francis. It seems as if he takes statements by our Holy Father in the worst possible way and uses them to garner support for himself.
This I agree with and it upholds the principle of subsidiarity.The best way to handle a disagreement is in private, not through the media mouthpiece.
D
Deltadeliquent
Guest
Considering some of his appointments, I think he already has spoken, and is trying to influence the discussions.Could it be that the Pope figures if he does break his silence, at this point, it could have an influence on the discussions within the Synod that he said he does not want restrained, but open and frank?
L
LongingSoul
Guest
Pope Francis has inspired a shake up in the spirit of the Vatican II reforms since taking office. I can remember some of the changes that began happening after the close of VII and how people resisted out of fear that the divil had infiltrated the Vatican. I remember when the early Saturday vigil Masses began and how tentative people were as to whether it really did meet the Sunday obligation. Look at us now. Nobody blinks an eye.Agree completely. Over the past year there has been a lot of confusion about a lot of things. God is not the author of confusion.
The worries people are having are unnecessary. The Pope is watching over things.
B
Book_Worm
Guest
The Pope who we believe to have been elected through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.Pope Francis has inspired a shake up in the spirit of the Vatican II reforms since taking office. I can remember some of the changes that began happening after the close of VII and how people resisted out of fear that the divil had infiltrated the Vatican. I remember when the early Saturday vigil Masses began and how tentative people were as to whether it really did meet the Sunday obligation. Look at us now. Nobody blinks an eye.
The worries people are having are unnecessary. The Pope is watching over things.
P
powerofk
Guest
Which goes to the point - because the transfer is so close to Card. Burke’s remarks, it is often assumed that he was moved due to the remarks. But, the reasons could be much different. It’s quite possible (in fact, quite probable, considering the pace of the Church at times) that the transfer had been in the works for some time, and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the synod. Seriously. It may just be that His Holiness Pope Francis saw a need in the Order of Malta, and figured that Cardinal Burke was the most qualified person for the job.I personally would be very careful with this kind of comment. Card Burke has always displayed exceptional fidelity to the Church. He himself said in an interview, one of his concerns was that bishops and priests are telling him Catholics who are not properly disposed to receive them, are now beginning to come forward wanting to be admitted to the Sacraments! The media and these reports are harming the faithful. I believe his concern is for the people of God.
This I agree with and it upholds the principle of subsidiarity.
I think of it this way - last year, my job assignment changed multiple times during the school year. My official job title did not change, but I was moved several times not for anything that I had done, but due to the needs of the students and staffing changes. At the same time, the needs of the Church, in and of themselves, are the most probable reason for Card. Burke’s reassignment.
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ProVobis
Guest
I disagree somewhat. It seems that it is desensitization (which is a great tool of the devil perhaps?) which has caused a loss of the sense of sin and perhaps a lot of our faith and devotion as well. It seems like God has taken a back seat to worship if the focus is more on being welcomed to join them singing their songs and praying in their language.Pope Francis has inspired a shake up in the spirit of the Vatican II reforms since taking office. I can remember some of the changes that began happening after the close of VII and how people resisted out of fear that the divil had infiltrated the Vatican. I remember when the early Saturday vigil Masses began and how tentative people were as to whether it really did meet the Sunday obligation. Look at us now. Nobody blinks an eye.
The worries people are having are unnecessary. The Pope is watching over things.
J
JimG
Guest
I liked the Saturday vigil Mass option. That didn’t bother me. But the original ICEL English translation was pretty bad, along with the Simon & Garfunkel songs we sang before Mass.Pope Francis has inspired a shake up in the spirit of the Vatican II reforms since taking office. I can remember some of the changes that began happening after the close of VII and how people resisted out of fear that the divil had infiltrated the Vatican. I remember when the early Saturday vigil Masses began and how tentative people were as to whether it really did meet the Sunday obligation. Look at us now. Nobody blinks an eye.
The worries people are having are unnecessary. The Pope is watching over things.
W
Weejee
Guest
May he continue his defense of Christ’s teachings on divorce.On the positive side, it has been suggested by many that with his new position, Card Burke will now have more time to evangelize and write. As disappointing as this news is to many, I cannot help but think the Lord has something greater for him. Protect him, O Lord and use Him to accomplish Your will.
W
Weejee
Guest
Hello Darkness my good friend…I liked the Saturday vigil Mass option. That didn’t bother me. But the original ICEL English translation was pretty bad, along with the Simon & Garfunkel songs we sang before Mass.
L
livingwordunity
Guest
And this (the part I put in bold) hasn’t happened even once so far with Pope Francis.The Pope isn’t infallible when making pastoral judgements, picking good bishops to lead synods, making statements in interviews, playing fantasy football, baking a good apple pie, or discussing nuclear physics. He is only infallible when making a binding declaration on faith or morals-- which rarely happens.
P
ProVobis
Guest
It wasn’t just bad, it was marginally disingenuous ('for all" instead of “for many” among other things), and even parts of SC were biasly translated, especially that part about “frequently” (as in advantage of vernacular) instead of “not rarely” which the Latin states (“haud raro”). That changed the entire landscape, in my opinion, and made it ambiguous when there was no real reason to do so.But the original ICEL English translation was pretty bad,
O
on_the_hill
Guest
Burke was probably insubordinate. That will end a career as fast as anything else.
And we don’t know the full story.
About two months ago I fired a long-time employee from the organization I manage. People who are above me in the organization have been critical of my decision, and they think it was a mistake. They don’t know what a bad employee he was, because they only knew him and were impressed with him from the outside. They don’t know that he should have been fired years ago because he was lousy at his job.
They never will know, because I’m not going to defend my decisions by publicly trashing him.
None of us knows what Burke did or said during the meetings, the dinners, walking the hallways, etc.
People are assuming it was because of his opinions on particular matters based on nothing other than the fact that they like what they’ve seen of him from the outside.
I didn’t much care for Pope Benedict, but I never, ever questioned his authority and never, ever questioned the legitimacy of his papacy. I suggest that people who are questioning the reigning Pontiff should check their egos.
And we don’t know the full story.
About two months ago I fired a long-time employee from the organization I manage. People who are above me in the organization have been critical of my decision, and they think it was a mistake. They don’t know what a bad employee he was, because they only knew him and were impressed with him from the outside. They don’t know that he should have been fired years ago because he was lousy at his job.
They never will know, because I’m not going to defend my decisions by publicly trashing him.
None of us knows what Burke did or said during the meetings, the dinners, walking the hallways, etc.
People are assuming it was because of his opinions on particular matters based on nothing other than the fact that they like what they’ve seen of him from the outside.
I didn’t much care for Pope Benedict, but I never, ever questioned his authority and never, ever questioned the legitimacy of his papacy. I suggest that people who are questioning the reigning Pontiff should check their egos.
B
boar2roar
Guest
If it weren’t for bishops like Burke this synod might have been a disaster. Why is Kasper who champions unorthodox causes, works to undermine traditional catholic teachings, and makes dismissive and xenophobic comments about africans, who are a growing part of our church, like some 19th century colonialist is in good standing and being promoted by the pope, but Burke is the one who crossed the line ?Burke was probably insubordinate. That will end a career as fast as anything else.
And we don’t know the full story.
About two months ago I fired a long-time employee from the organization I manage. People who are above me in the organization have been critical of my decision, and they think it was a mistake. They don’t know what a bad employee he was, because they only knew him and were impressed with him from the outside. They don’t know that he should have been fired years ago because he was lousy at his job.
They never will know, because I’m not going to defend my decisions by publicly trashing him.
None of us knows what Burke did or said during the meetings, the dinners, walking the hallways, etc.
People are assuming it was because of his opinions on particular matters based on nothing other than the fact that they like what they’ve seen of him from the outside.
I didn’t much care for Pope Benedict, but I never, ever questioned his authority and never, ever questioned the legitimacy of his papacy. I suggest that people who are questioning the reigning Pontiff should check their egos.
Its never easy to stand for good when its unpopular, cardinal burke won’t be the last person to take a fall like this. He could have easily kept quiet and went along with everything the hierarchy wanted but thankfully he cares about the church more than saving his own skin and I admire bishops like him for that.
B
Brandall
Guest
According to some of the stories I’ve read, the Cardinal was publicly criticizing the Pope. There may be more to it than that and that is something we won’t know.
In this article, buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/conservative-cardinal-who-clashed-with-pope-francis-confirms#4aet81s the following is found: ‘went on Catholic television in 2013 to rebut remarks Pope Francis made to an interviewer that the church had become “obsessed” with abortion and sexuality to the exclusion of other issues, saying, “We can never talk enough about that as long as in our society innocent and defenseless human life is being attacked in the most savage way,” Burke said.’ Abortion is wrong and may be the greatest evils of this age. It is important to talk about but it isn’t the only thing and for the most part, it seems like the Church is rapped up with abortion and sexuality. It’s my opinion that the Cardinal, “rebutting” the Pope is an embarrassment for us all.
If an employee of mine was publicly criticizing one of my policies, they would be given the choice to resign or be fired. Before anyone says that it isn’t an employer/employee relationship, that is understood. However, Pope Francis does have the power to change the assignment. That may be what was done here.
As far as any changes to established doctrine, they just won’t happen. Jesus stated that marrying a divorced person was adultery. That wasn’t Pope Jesus, or Saint Jesus, it was Jesus, The Messiah, the living God incarnate. It has been long established that same sex, sexual relations were and are a sin. Paul reiterated that in the New Testament.
Saint Paul warned about taking of the Eucharist unworthily which is a sin in itself. If someone is divorced and remarried or married to someone that has been divorced, they cannot receive the Eucharist without getting an annulment first. That will not change. If someone has same sex attractions and does not confess and repent, they cannot receive the Eucharist. Neither of these can change and they will not. The Church cannot counsel you to sin (unworthily receiving the Eucharist). There will be no change of doctrine or infallible pronouncement on these.
Our last Pope, Benedcit XVI, was very precise in everything he said. That may have seemed rigid to some but there was little chance of him being misunderstood. Pope Francis isn’t careful about what he says. Personally, I wish he was a lot more careful and better explained himself. However, he doesn’t but honestly, he hasn’t said anything to contradict Church doctrine. He has not said that sexually involved members of the same sex are not sinning and should receive the Eucharist. He has not said that long divorced people do not need an annulment before consuming the Eucharist. He will say neither of these things this year or next year or any year.
The main stream media and parts of the general public are making more of what he has said than he actually said. We’re Catholic and know better than the media and the general public.
The original story here started out talking about a supposed demotion of Cardinal Burke. Part of the history of both men makes it involve the synodal process. We should all pray for Cardinal Burke, the pope and frankly, all of our Bishops. May God’s Holy Spirit lead them in the right direction.
In this article, buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/conservative-cardinal-who-clashed-with-pope-francis-confirms#4aet81s the following is found: ‘went on Catholic television in 2013 to rebut remarks Pope Francis made to an interviewer that the church had become “obsessed” with abortion and sexuality to the exclusion of other issues, saying, “We can never talk enough about that as long as in our society innocent and defenseless human life is being attacked in the most savage way,” Burke said.’ Abortion is wrong and may be the greatest evils of this age. It is important to talk about but it isn’t the only thing and for the most part, it seems like the Church is rapped up with abortion and sexuality. It’s my opinion that the Cardinal, “rebutting” the Pope is an embarrassment for us all.
If an employee of mine was publicly criticizing one of my policies, they would be given the choice to resign or be fired. Before anyone says that it isn’t an employer/employee relationship, that is understood. However, Pope Francis does have the power to change the assignment. That may be what was done here.
As far as any changes to established doctrine, they just won’t happen. Jesus stated that marrying a divorced person was adultery. That wasn’t Pope Jesus, or Saint Jesus, it was Jesus, The Messiah, the living God incarnate. It has been long established that same sex, sexual relations were and are a sin. Paul reiterated that in the New Testament.
Saint Paul warned about taking of the Eucharist unworthily which is a sin in itself. If someone is divorced and remarried or married to someone that has been divorced, they cannot receive the Eucharist without getting an annulment first. That will not change. If someone has same sex attractions and does not confess and repent, they cannot receive the Eucharist. Neither of these can change and they will not. The Church cannot counsel you to sin (unworthily receiving the Eucharist). There will be no change of doctrine or infallible pronouncement on these.
Our last Pope, Benedcit XVI, was very precise in everything he said. That may have seemed rigid to some but there was little chance of him being misunderstood. Pope Francis isn’t careful about what he says. Personally, I wish he was a lot more careful and better explained himself. However, he doesn’t but honestly, he hasn’t said anything to contradict Church doctrine. He has not said that sexually involved members of the same sex are not sinning and should receive the Eucharist. He has not said that long divorced people do not need an annulment before consuming the Eucharist. He will say neither of these things this year or next year or any year.
The main stream media and parts of the general public are making more of what he has said than he actually said. We’re Catholic and know better than the media and the general public.
The original story here started out talking about a supposed demotion of Cardinal Burke. Part of the history of both men makes it involve the synodal process. We should all pray for Cardinal Burke, the pope and frankly, all of our Bishops. May God’s Holy Spirit lead them in the right direction.
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