Conservative Cardinal [Burke] Who Clashed With Pope Francis Confirms He Has Been Ousted

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Well, if the demotion had nothing to do with his outspokenness…
The Pope chose a funny time to move him.
 
I look at this and don’t see why everyone is all up in arms. Here is what this news story translates to in my mind:

“One old guy in a red cassock given a nominally more prestigious job than a different old guy in a red cassock; dozens outraged”.

I distinctly remember people getting their bollocks in a bind over this long before the Synod was even announced. So this doesn’t worry me.
 
nuntym said:
+JMJ+

You do realize Satan entered Judas after he received Holy Communion unworthily, right? (John 13:27)
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That’s true. That verse and 1 Corinthians 11:27 should be considered crucial in this.

"Then after the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “What you are going to do, do quickly.” - John 13:27

“Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.” - 1 Corinthians 11:27
 
One_point said:
but this is a wrong view of the church. the only boss in the church is Jesus. Yes there are leaders but they don’t become bosses as if they own the church or something. Cardinal Burke has criticized the Pope not for heresy but for silence. he has not bad mouthed him. And the church is not the property of the pope, it belong to Christ and pope like other Bishops is a servnt. sometimes a pope can be publicly criticized precisely because of his office and the influene it has. that why st Paul had to publicly criticize St. Peter when his passive support of heretics was causing scandal for gentile converts. I as a lay person am scandalized by His Holiness’ silence and would appreciate guidance.
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Agreed.
 
Catholic_farmer said:
Cardinal Burke seems like a passionate man who loves the Church. However, he has made some very confrontational statements towards Pope Francis. It seems as if he takes statements by our Holy Father in the worst possible way and uses them to garner support for himself. The best way to handle a disagreement is in private, not through the media mouthpiece. Perhaps the assignment in Malta will give him time to reflect and find a better way to communicate his concerns with his boss.

Is there anyone here who could badmouth their boss in public and get away with it?
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Greetings…I too have been following Cardinal Burkes press releases to the media and book, just as the Synod opened. I think as a Cardinal of the Church he should have not done either of these actions. He also criticized Cardinal Kasper for his new book and his views, and should have waited till after the Synod to do so. So now he has time to ponder his statements and positions…I pray the Holy Spirit will guide him more closely! Sending love and light.
 
Didn’t the pope ask for an open and frank exchange is ideas?
Getting the sack after doing as your boss told you too, and being punished because the boss didn’t like what you had to say…sounds a bit like the Soviet Union to me. We live in an age where we can speak our minds. Burke didn’t bad mouth the boss anyway… He expressed disapproval of a certain aspect of his behaviour. Staying silent. Burke has an opinion too and like anyone, has a perfect right to express it. He was being not only a good Cathoic and Christian, but a good employee.
Doesn’t sound like that breath of fresh air Francis is meant to be.
Sounds more like a petulant medieval king to me.
I was pretty disappointed in the whole affair.
 
Cardinal Burke was told of the move a couple of months prior to the Synod. From what I can tell, the Synod had nothing to do with the move.
 
What a tremendous joke this is!
May God always be with Cardinal Burke, a true servant of Our Lord, one of the few remaining of his kind.
 
What a Tremendous Joke this decition is by Pope Francis!
Mark my words, this is only the beginning.
in the next year until the synode of 2015 He will remove as many so called conservatives from the Vatican as he possibly can in order to avoid loud critisicm over the liberal doctrine he is preparing to make at the end of the 15 Synod.
Dictatorship is a quite fitting terminology…

This is why every bishops should be considered equals, the early church teached this and ours did too until after the Schicm.
But for some odd reason we started to believe that the Roman Pontific where infallible while it is indeed the Church who is, not one single Bishop.
Counsils are right, Popes arent nessecarily…

Yours in Christ
Marian(Catholic??)
 
Budeux said:
Greetings…I too have been following Cardinal Burkes press releases to the media and book, just as the Synod opened. I think as a Cardinal of the Church he should have not done either of these actions. He also criticized Cardinal Kasper for his new book and his views, and should have waited till after the Synod to do so. So now he has time to ponder his statements and positions…I pray the Holy Spirit will guide him more closely! Sending love and light.
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Wait, if Cardinal Kasper is able to publish a book and give interviews, why isn’t Cardinal Burke able to publish a book (it is not just his book, by the way) and give interviews. That is what scholarly theology is about. Someone proposes an idea and others take a critical look at the idea to see if it hold up. There is no reason to wait until the Synod to address the theological works of others.🤷

A distinction, is that Cardinal Burke did not criticize Cardinal Kasper for his book and interviews, he instead criticized the views expressed in the book and interviews. There is a difference.
 
jilly4ski said:
Wait, if Cardinal Kasper is able to publish a book and give interviews, why isn’t Cardinal Burke able to publish a book (it is not just his book, by the way) and give interviews. That is what scholarly theology is about. Someone proposes an idea and others take a critical look at the idea to see if it hold up. There is no reason to wait until the Synod to address the theological works of others.🤷

A distinction, is that Cardinal Burke did not criticize Cardinal Kasper for his book and interviews, he instead criticized the views expressed in the book and interviews. There is a difference.
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The distinction is that Cardinal Burke was the one putting up roadblocks before the Synod! Not Cardinal Kasper. Cardinal Burke was trying to cut Cardinal Kasper’s from the public forum. The doors have been opened again …let the Holy Spirit in your Church! Sending love and light…
 
Deltadeliquent said:
Didn’t the pope ask for an open and frank exchange is ideas?
Getting the sack after doing as your boss told you too, and being punished because the boss didn’t like what you had to say…sounds a bit like the Soviet Union to me. We live in an age where we can speak our minds. Burke didn’t bad mouth the boss anyway… He expressed disapproval of a certain aspect of his behaviour. Staying silent. Burke has an opinion too and like anyone, has a perfect right to express it. He was being not only a good Cathoic and Christian, but a good employee.
Doesn’t sound like that breath of fresh air Francis is meant to be.
Sounds more like a petulant medieval king to me.
I was pretty disappointed in the whole affair.
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CAF works best when posters post about information they directly have - what happened in their family, or parish, or job; or when those trained in Canon Law etc clarify specific questions. CAF seems weakest when people, including myself, write about things we have no direct information on, when the internet is filled with misinformation by liberal and conservative commenters who only succeed - attract attention - by making outrageous claims about what Church leaders are “really” up to.

The Pope has information we don’t have, that it may be uncharitable or imprudent to discuss publicly. Personnel matters are confidential. Anyone who claims to release “inside” information is unreliable. There are always other things going on - in the World, in the Church, in the Vatican, in countries unfamiliar to us - that we don’t know about, that make it prudent, or not prudent, for the pope to say certain things at this moment. I am sure that when Burke was in charge of a diocese, or other responsibility, there were times when liberals and conservatives denounced his apparent inaction or his decision not to speak out at certain times, because he knew things they did not about other things going on.

Personally I agree with the positions of Cardinal Burke over the years. But even he needs a pope, as I do.
 
I think Cardinal Kaspers remarks were made before the Synod opened. That’s why it was remarkable that he was asked to speak at the synod. We already knew his views, and Francis seemed to agree by asking him to speak at the synod.

I don’t think there’s any difference in what Burke did, expect that his views were in opposition to what Francis thinks. Kasper is the voice of the pope, and Burke is in opposition.
That’s why his demotion at least looks like punishment and intimidation.

It’s a disappointment to me because I think there are lots of things that need to be addressed at the Vatican. The banks business, the debauchery of priests, the molestations and cover up. Cleaning up these sorts of things will make the church both stronger and attractive to ordinary people. Those priests who party all night before donning a collar and saying mass ought to be ousted, and publicling humiliated. Rather than a good man demoted because he has the audacity to speak out against what he sees as a diluting of church teaching.

Looks like Francis papacy is business as usual. And that’s a disappointment. To me, anyway.
 
Maybe Pope Francis did Cardinal Burke a favor.

I’ve known people who have very staunch positions and beliefs on a number of different matters. Problems may not arise from their beliefs, but may arise with how they express them. In my experience, people who are outspoken walk a fine line with credibility.
 
Budeux said:
The distinction is that Cardinal Burke was the one putting up roadblocks before the Synod! Not Cardinal Kasper. Cardinal Burke was trying to cut Cardinal Kasper’s from the public forum. The doors have been opened again …let the Holy Spirit in your Church! Sending love and light…
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And how did Burke put up road blocks for the Synod? All that we have heard are things said outside of the Synod and most of it before the Synod even started. It was Cardinal Burke who was elected by his fellow bishops to be a moderator of the language groups at the Synod. That doesn’t sound like putting up road blocks before the Synod to me. 🤷
 
gilliam said:
Cardinal Burke was told of the move a couple of months prior to the Synod. From what I can tell, the Synod had nothing to do with the move.
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From what I have been reading, that seems to be the case. I wonder, though, if Cardinal Burke’s lavish lifestyle did not have something to do with his transfer. By lifestyle I mean the expensive vestments and garments he chooses.
stpeterslist.com/5111/cardinal-burke-10-photos-of-this-wondrous-prince-of-the-church/

The Pope has made mention that priests should be more humble in dress and living arrangements. He, himself, is the example.

The Malta position is one of tending to the poor. It makes me wonder if the Pope is sending a strong message.
 
He did not invent this elaborate and formal dress, but he uses it properly on important church occasions. He honors his office, it’s traditions and the church.
If his private life looks like his formal official life, then we have a problem.

Wait, Where did that " bishop of bling" hail from, again? Remind me.

I do think that his fancy dress is less a problem than how the church is funded in Germany.
Or any of the other problems I’ve mentioned. And I’m sure I don’t even know a tenth of it.
 
Deltadeliquent said:
Well, if the demotion had nothing to do with his outspokenness…
The Pope chose a funny time to move him.
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Let’s keep in mind that the rumors were floating around long before they Synod. The Pope could have removed the Cardinal beforehand and not invited him to the Synod. But the Holy Father did not. To me it shows the situation is far more complex.

NOTE: I like Cardinal Burke and I also like ever Pope during my life time. (I was born in 1977).
 
Deltadeliquent said:
He did not invent this elaborate and formal dress, but he uses it properly on important church occasions. He honors his office, it’s traditions and the church.
If his private life looks like his formal official life, then we have a problem.

Wait, Where did that " bishop of bling" hail from, again? Remind me.

I do think that his fancy dress is less a problem than how the church is funded in Germany.
Or any of the other problems I’ve mentioned. And I’m sure I don’t even know a tenth of it.
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To be fair though the Galeto and Cappa Magna is in disuse
 
jilly4ski said:
And how did Burke put up road blocks for the Synod? All that we have heard are things said outside of the Synod and most of it before the Synod even started. It was Cardinal Burke who was elected by his fellow bishops to be a moderator of the language groups at the Synod. That doesn’t sound like putting up road blocks before the Synod to me. 🤷 Greetings… the position that Cardinal Burke took before the Synod was one of calling Cardinal Kasper’s thesis and book an attack on Doctrine of the church. That to me that was a roadblock to forum. Cardinal Kasper is a renown Theologian within the Church. His thesis and book were only about pastoral care to his flock. He wanted to have discussion, and certainly welcomed differing opinions than his own. Sending love and light…
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