"Conservative" versus "Good" Catholic

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Labels are for clothing. Either you are faithful and orthodox (qualities, states) or you are not. We all struggle at times, and are not finished products just yet.
 
PetraG said:
90 percent is a pretty optimistic estimate, I’m afraid, unless you count those who wish they could be unaware of it.
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?? I agree with the comment above that said most Catholics just go to the nearest OF on Sundays and aren’t really aware of/ concerned with the “conservative Catholics” who run around opposing Pope Francis, going to TLM as a regular activity, reading Lifesite News, fretting over Pachamama, etc.
I’m not talking about conservative vs liberal political views, which most people don’t relate to their Catholicism unless they are either really into activism for the poor or really into anti-abortion, which in both cases is a small group.

Very, very few people think all that deeply about their Catholicism except in terms of their personal lives/ personal selves, questions that relate to death, sin, their relationships. None of which is political except maybe if gay marriage is involved. That’s my experience anyway.

I’m going to mute this thread now because as I said, I’m not seeing it going on so maybe I leave the discussion to people who think it is more of an issue.
 
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While there has been a lot of support in the United States from many Catholics for ‘conservative’ causes, it should be noted that political conservativism doesn’t represent the gamut of Caatholic social teaching.
Many conservative causes contradict what the Catholic Church teaches.
 
It is a terrible development. It is not Catholic!
The word catholic was first coined before Constantine, to “describe” the church, rather than as a proper name, to mean universal.
Jesus was a victim of a political circumstance and trial.
One of the Church’s radical practices early on in it’s existence involved the intermingling and equality at services of masters and slaves. Where they interacted interpersonally as Christians.
The divisive political struggle intra Church has always been destructive and anathema to the core message of the Gospel. It has led to schism, which by all objective observations has " diluted" the remaining groups of development and focus on it’s wider initial theology.
I don’t see anything wrong with Catholics represented in different political parties. That is a good thing. It is entierly different when those politicians find their way to Rome to infiltrate and impose divisive political views on the Holy See itself. Rome faces a unique threat via electronic media. It is not a positive to have a constant political attack on the Pope whether you agree with the politics or not. It erodes the papacy and creates new modern norms that can be expected to carry forward. People have a SENSE OF NORMALCY via secular news practices that make the application to the church SEEM RIGHT.
Personally I fear a Church that will decline in numbers and withdraw into an increasingly insular CATHOLOCISM. A narrower and narrower salvation message that defeats the Gospel mission.
 
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Emeraldlady said:
How did this very politicised version of Catholicism come about and should we fight urgently to dis-identify with it in every way?
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To answer the first part of your questions, Vatican II.

Whether one thinks it was reality or a media creation, bishops were divided into conservative and progressive camps during the Council. Afterward, influenced by their respective bishops and the media, priests and religious too took divided approaches to the Council (even if both thinking themselves obedient to it) and then so did laity as a result.

Novelty–even if good in substance–is by its very nature divisive–at the very least between past and present. Tradition, received by all from the forebears of all and applying to all, fosters unity. Novelty, which is introduced by some in place of or even alongside the tradition, necessarily causes division from those who came before and those who still adhere to the tradition and wish to maintain such unity. Before Vatican II, there was a common tradition that united all. That tradition also supported authority, another unifying factor.

The conservative-progressive split at Vatican II put that common tradition into doubt and, with it, the unifying authority that used to uphold it. Various novelties spread unchecked. Were they ok? Were they not? Some were, some weren’t, but very few clear answers were given–usually authorities sent mixed signals. All this led to internal progressive-conservative divisions.

The weakening of faith accompanying this division and the increased focus on the here-and-now, social issues, and activism after Vatican II led to a greater focus on politics and political positions, as opposed to dogma, being more vital to ones interests. And in most modern societies, politics is expressed in opposing parties or camps.

As for the second part of your question, yes.
 
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I hate it when politics are brought into religion.
It seems that politics tries to divide us.
There is only one God, not a conservative God or a liberal God. But one Almighty God that loves all of his children.
We pray for the lapsed Catholics. We pray that those who are practicing Catholics to keep up the good work.
Render unto Caesar and render undo God.
 
Do you live the FAITH of JESUS CHRIST taught everything else is man made and we grab on to it to support our faith. I love the Saints They give me great inspiration.
 
The OP stated “when I was growing up”.
So, when was that? Before Roe? When many / most American Catholics were Democrat by default?
The Democrat party left mainstream morality and Catholic morality a long time ago. But there is still an attachment there for a lot people, so…
 
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You could add blind obedience also. Of course the problem with blind obedience is it does not foster transformation into a better Christian person. I guess someone gave another, a blind obedience. Perhaps their efforts are rewarded twice.
 
Sarcelle said:
We definitely should fight against this politicization of the faith.

The faith is timeless and for all the peoples of the world.

Too many times discussions pertaining to the faith on this forum gets conflated with politics and not just any politics but American politics.

I can understand why forum members who are not Americans can get put off by this conflation.
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Yes it is very strange to see Catholics expressing completely political opinions believing that that is their faith position. An example was a few months ago in a thread, people claiming “conservative” Catholicism declaring boldly that no one is going to tell them to turn down their air con and stop driving SUV’s. It’s a position that refuses to see anything wrong in human exploitation of the environment at all. They seem to lose the rational ability to distinguish between the silly alarmists and the reality of greed in destroying the eco system.
 
Michael16 said:
Our faith should inform our politics.
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Exactly. Being so unconditionally loyal to one party or another is actually preventing the natural development of a truly Christian political force in my opinion. People aren’t demanding change from their representatives, they are just digging in behind them.
 
ricmat said:
What politics?

Conservative in the Catholic sense has nothing to do with politics. I believe it has more to do with keeping traditions and doctrines that have been taught for 2000 years (conserve), versus those who want to progress to something “better.”
This is a real thing, and not just limited to CAF or blogs, etc.

There is an analogy to politics, but it’s not a one-to-one mapping to e.g. political parties.
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I disagree that the label used by Catholics has nothing to do with politics and I believe that it is quite evident on Catholic forums. Another for instance is in regards to the poor. People who identify as ‘conservative’ Catholics use the political position that ‘healthcare is a privilege, not a right’. That is stated over and over on Catholic forums. Yet that is so far from anything scriptural and Catholic. It isn’t a natural position of someone following in Jesus path wouldn’t you say?
 
Emeraldlady said:
People who identify as ‘conservative’ Catholics use the political position that ‘healthcare is a privilege, not a right’
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I know a lot of “conservative” Catholics and I’ve never heard them say this. I’ve occasionally heard them say “Those who do not work should not eat.” But then that’s not scriptural either…or is it? I’m conservative, and one of the ministries my wife and I serve is the Food Pantry volunteers where we do our best to help as many people have something to eat.

On the issue of health care, at least in the US, the poorest of the poor get free medical help at emergency rooms. Including cat scans and MRI’s. I know because I have some in-laws in that category. It IS true that if you want the latest and greatest experimental and very expensive health care, then yes, that’s available only if you have the money to pay for it yourself (insurance doesn’t even cover this).
 
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