Conservatives call on GOP leaders to step down

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Michael_Mayo said:
The thing is, the president or elected official has FAR more direct influence over many issues than over abortion. If that were not so abortion would have been banned by by the “Pro-life” leaders since Roe v Wade.

But the interesting thing here is that in spite of the Tea Party, in spite of the conservative base, Obama still won. That is just where our nation is at right now. The economy is the more pragmatic concern because it is immediately actionable.

“Leaders more in tune with the conservative base of the Republican Party” would have done even worse.
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Here in lies the problem. Until we Catholics have the guts to help our fellow Catholics, economy will continue to trump the intrinsic evils which our Church has instructed us to oppose. I could care less of which party they belong or if they call themselves liberal or conservative, wrong is wrong.
 
seekerz said:
Actually, I’m relieved that we dodged the bullet.
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:rotfl:

Considering the numbers of business that have already declared their intent to fire, lay off, and stop hiring to avoid ObamaTax, its looking more and more like we took a bullet right in the head.
 
Lapey said:
Abortion will stay up as long as it is promoted as it has been especially during this race. Every time someone spoke about limiting or ending legal abortion, the leftists came out of the woodwork to demagogue the person speaking. The media picked up the fight and carried the day for the dems. Sad part is, 50% of Catholics went along for the ride.

Please tell what part of Romney’s vision for the future would cause the catastrophic end of civilization you mention which would increase abortion. The after that, please inform all of us what BO has done to limit or decrease abortion, no antidotal evidence allowed; you have his record and his word to rely on, that’s it.

His word promises more access, and his record proves more will live in poverty, so how will the current administration decrease abortion???

PS. If i’m not mistaken, abortions fell during the Bush II admin.

PSS. If we made all abortions illegal today, are you saying that abortion numbers would not decrease? Do you know that most states have still on the books anti-abortion laws? Louisiana still has laws on the books stating the illegality of abortion, so if R v W were overturned tomorrow, it would overnight be illegal here…Praise God! Who is the federal government that they can tell an individual state abortion is legal when the state has said the opposite. Isn’t this hypocrisy on the part of the federal government if you consider the two situations, slavery and abortion? Don’t you think that ending abortion is as important as ending slavery? If you do, then it’s time to overturn R v W and send the fight to the states.
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I remain unconvinced by that whole ‘send it back to the states’ strategy. I’ve lived in the trenches: people don’t tend to abort because politicians “promote” abortion. They abort because many are desperate (due to poverty/shame/fear), some are unevangelized, some are selfish, some are being pressured by their loved ones…or any combination of the above. Politicians play on those vulnerabilities for votes.

If abortion is sent back to the states, the law might improve in some states and stay the same or worsen in others. The actual practice of abortion, who knows? Abortion depends mostly on the woman and her doctor. If they want it - they choose it. The theory that making it illegal will have an appreciable effect overlooks the fact that doctors’ help would be needed to identify/prevent abortion. It is absolutely astounding to me that the fight against abortion seems to largely overlook the medical community, in terms of enlisting or targeting them in a positive way.
 
Lapey said:
Abortion will stay up as long as it is promoted as it has been especially during this race. Every time someone spoke about limiting or ending legal abortion, the leftists came out of the woodwork to demagogue the person speaking. The media picked up the fight and carried the day for the dems. Sad part is, 50% of Catholics went along for the ride.

Please tell what part of Romney’s vision for the future would cause the catastrophic end of civilization you mention which would increase abortion. The after that, please inform all of us what BO has done to limit or decrease abortion, no antidotal evidence allowed; you have his record and his word to rely on, that’s it.

His word promises more access, and his record proves more will live in poverty, so how will the current administration decrease abortion???

PS. If i’m not mistaken, abortions fell during the Bush II admin.

PSS. If we made all abortions illegal today, are you saying that abortion numbers would not decrease? Do you know that most states have still on the books anti-abortion laws? Louisiana still has laws on the books stating the illegality of abortion, so if R v W were overturned tomorrow, it would overnight be illegal here…Praise God! Who is the federal government that they can tell an individual state abortion is legal when the state has said the opposite. Isn’t this hypocrisy on the part of the federal government if you consider the two situations, slavery and abortion? Don’t you think that ending abortion is as important as ending slavery? If you do, then it’s time to overturn R v W and send the fight to the states.
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Each year, Planned Parenthood performs more abortions, it’s big business and that’s who Obama befriends.

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=10170

This also illustrates that Planned Parenthoods Birth Control and Contraception programs are totally ineffective, so this is just a big rat hole to throw money down.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
:rotfl:

Considering the numbers of business that have already declared their intent to fire, lay off, and stop hiring to avoid ObamaTax, its looking more and more like we took a bullet right in the head.
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When the petulant toddlers are done with their tantrums, they’ll be back to being productive. The idea that adding a few cents to a product or service price (to cover insurance costs) is going to cripple business in ludicrous. Providing insurance for employees might seem like a vicious, terrible, horrible, not so good, very bad thing, but they’ll get over it once they realize there’s still money to be made and they can’t very well do it with only two hands.
 
seekerz said:
I remain unconvinced by that whole ‘send it back to the states’ strategy. I’ve lived in the trenches: people don’t tend to abort because politicians “promote” abortion. They abort because many are desperate (due to poverty/shame/fear), some are unevangelized, some are selfish, some are being pressured by their loved ones…or any combination of the above. Politicians play on those vulnerabilities for votes.

If abortion is sent back to the states, the law might improve in some states and stay the same or worsen in others. The actual practice of abortion, who knows? Abortion depends mostly on the woman and her doctor. If they want it - they choose it. The theory that making it illegal will have an appreciable effect overlooks the fact that doctors’ help would be needed to identify/prevent abortion. It is absolutely astounding to me that the fight against abortion seems to largely overlook the medical community, in terms of enlisting or targeting them in a positive way.
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This is ludicrous, go back to pre R v W numbers and see what was happening, the numbers are historically documented. You have lost your mind if you think the numbers would stay the same or increase if R v W were overturned. Come on man; think outside of the democrat party, think Catholic!
 
seekerz said:
When the petulant toddlers are done with their tantrums, they’ll be back to being productive. The idea that adding a few cents to a product or service price (to cover insurance costs) is going to cripple business in ludicrous. Providing insurance for employees might seem like a vicious, terrible, horrible, not so good, very bad thing, but they’ll get over it once they realize there’s still money to be made and they can’t very well do it with only two hands.
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You are calling grown men who have dedicated their lives to growing and developing business and helping their communities “petulant toddlers”? Really, I thought better of you. Maybe I am wrong.
 
Lapey said:
This is ludicrous, go back to pre R v W numbers and see what was happening, the numbers are historically documented. You have lost your mind if you think the numbers would stay the same or increase if R v W were overturned. Come on man; think outside of the democrat party, think Catholic!
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I think Catholic: the sisters taught me to use my eyes, ears and brain to process the reality that stands in front of me.

Reversing RvW might take us back to those ‘numbers’ IF we had a time machine to make this no longer 2012 but 1969 instead. Times have changed, so has reality. I don’t follow crowds - I look, I think, I come to a conclusion.
 
seekerz said:
When the petulant toddlers are done with their tantrums, they’ll be back to being productive. The idea that adding a few cents to a product or service price (to cover insurance costs) is going to cripple business in ludicrous. Providing insurance for employees might seem like a vicious, terrible, horrible, not so good, very bad thing, but they’ll get over it once they realize there’s still money to be made and they can’t very well do it with only two hands.
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Those “petulant toddlers” know business and reality. They see the future as it stands now. All you know is partisan politics.

Fact is, taxes are going up on producers of jobs, healthcare is going up much faster than if it would not have been touched at all, regulations will squeeze the energy industries out of business, etc. The future for business in America, unless you are a green energy company, is bleak; that is fact. All of America will suffer in the future because of this election and the last.
 
seekerz said:
I think Catholic: the sisters taught me to use my eyes, ears and brain to process the reality that stands in front of me.

Reversing RvW might take us back to those ‘numbers’ IF we had a time machine to make this no longer 2012 but 1969 instead. Times have changed, so has reality. I don’t follow crowds - I look, I think, I come to a conclusion.
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The 'sisters on the bus"?? lol…😃 I understand where you stand now…:eek:

So in 2012, abortion is okay and morally accepted? There is no difference in Church teaching from '69 to '12. For that matter, there is no difference in Church teaching from 69 AD to 2012 AD.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
You are calling grown men who have dedicated their lives to growing and developing business and helping their communities “petulant toddlers”? Really, I thought better of you. Maybe I am wrong.
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If the cap fits…A man stands to pray before firing almost 200 workers because Obama won, guess what? He’s behaving like a petulant toddler. Nothing has changed that fast. He’ll display his faith, such as it is, for the world to see…why would he not put it into practice instead of succumbing to fears of things that have not yet happened?
 
seekerz said:
If the cap fits…A man stands to pray before firing almost 200 workers because Obama won, guess what? He’s behaving like a petulant toddler. Nothing has changed that fast. He’ll display his faith, such as it is, for the world to see…why would he not put it into practice instead of succumbing to fears of things that have not yet happened?
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No he is not, he is a person who had hope, and Obama’s victory changed that. His policies have changed the business world to have no hope of a future, thus the lay-offs will continue unfortunately.

He does not like free enterprise, he wants and is gaining controll over a gree market society, sad that so many partisans don’t see the truth.
 
Lapey said:
The 'sisters on the bus"?? lol…😃 I understand where you stand now…:eek:

So in 2012, abortion is okay and morally accepted? There is no difference in Church teaching from '69 to '12. For that matter, there is no difference in Church teaching from 69 AD to 2012 AD.
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Why do you see the need to twist my words? I expect better from you.

The only sisters you know are those on the bus? How long have you been Catholic?

Church teaching has not changed but the world has - therefore expectations and strategies have to change. To expect that by the stroke of a pen people will stop having abortions to bring us back to pre-RvW numbers, is to ignore the medical developments that have made abortion much more accessible to women than it was 40 years ago.

This is no longer the age of “an Aspirin between the legs”…but then again, there are still people who believe that women can “shut that whole thing down”…What can I say? God help us.
 
Lapey said:
No he is not, he is a person who had hope, and Obama’s victory changed that. His policies have changed the business world to have no hope of a future, thus the lay-offs will continue unfortunately.

He does not like free enterprise, he wants and is gaining controll over a gree market society, sad that so many partisans don’t see the truth.
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Obama is not God and he’s not the one who believes he’s on the path to divinity. That’s a different candidate.

Despair, if I am not very much mistaken (help me out here, Deacon) is offensive to God as it negates the hope with which our faith in Him endows us.
 
Seekerz, there are a number of denominations that are lenient on abortion. The Catholic faith is not one of them if you are even Catholic, there are a number of choices.
 
seekerz said:
If the cap fits…A man stands to pray before firing almost 200 workers because Obama won, guess what? He’s behaving like a petulant toddler. Nothing has changed that fast. He’ll display his faith, such as it is, for the world to see…why would he not put it into practice instead of succumbing to fears of things that have not yet happened?
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He is reacting to the reality of Obamacare taking full effect. What he is dong is what i myself am doing and tens of thousands of other businesses are doing-exactly as was predicted when this onerous law was passed. Talk about blaming the victim.
 
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