Conservatives call on GOP leaders to step down

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estesbob said:
He is reacting to the reality of Obamacare taking full effect. What he is dong is what i myself am doing and tens of thousands of other businesses are doing-exactly as was predicted when this onerous law was passed. Talk about blaming the victim.
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Victim? You mean he’s part of the 47% mentality? :eek:
 
Mickey said:
And if it were illegal…many would not choose it.
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Source? Hint: abortion is illegal in a fair number of countries still…I happen to know the abortion situation in some of them very well. Short answer: they want it, they choose it, their doctors turn a blind eye or wring their hands helplessly because they cannot prove their suspicions. Of course I’ve heard of countries where suspicions are enough to throw women in jail for a long time…but those are the exceptions.
 
seekerz said:
Source? Hint: abortion is illegal in a fair number of countries still…I happen to know the abortion situation in some of them very well. Short answer: they want it, they choose it, their doctors turn a blind eye or wring their hands helplessly because they cannot prove their suspicions.
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In the three years after abortion was imposed abortions in the US increased fourfold-from 400,000 a year to 1.6 million a year. The idea that making something illegal has no effect on it is specious-were that true we would need no laws
 
estesbob said:
He , like me, is facing the reality of increased costs and increased regulation of his business.
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They increased in the past week? Oh well, for every businessman who retires there are up and coming young entrepreneurs not afraid to take the plunge. What really amazes me is that some of these companies think customers are sheep - they play the Scrooge in public but would blame Obama if people came together and said: don’t eat there, don’t buy that brand, close your account with that company…

Personally, I’m quite prepared to pay 13 cents more for a pizza, but I will carefully consider who to patronize when they start those lay-offs.
 
seekerz said:
When the petulant toddlers are done with their tantrums, they’ll be back to being productive. The idea that adding a few cents to a product or service price (to cover insurance costs) is going to cripple business in ludicrous. Providing insurance for employees might seem like a vicious, terrible, horrible, not so good, very bad thing, but they’ll get over it once they realize there’s still money to be made and they can’t very well do it with only two hands.
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Lots of them will have more than two hands. There are plenty of hands in China. Some businesses, of course, can’t move overseas. And a lot of those who can’t, are going to be hit with the double blow of Obamacare taxes and Obama’s proposed tax hikes. For a lot of them, that’s more than adding “a few cents” to their goods or services.

It has to be remembered that the vast majority of people had coverage before Obamacare, and were happy with it. It isn’t at all clear that any greater number will be covered with Obamacare. Obama admits 20 million won’t be covered. The CBO say 30 million. When all the dust settles and the decisions are made, it might be that fewer will be covered than before. If the chief Medicare actuary is right, the elderly will soon not be covered for all practical purposes if Medicare reimbursement becomes less than Medicaid reimbursement, which he predicts. Providers already limit the number of Medicaid patients they will take. How anxious will they be to take Medicare patients for which reimbursement is even less?

And when Obamacare dumps an additional 17 million (or more) onto Medicaid, how will that not crowd out the truly poor for whom that is the only possible resource?

Seems to me there is a lot about Obamacare “coverage” that’s illusory. Theoretically, it purports to cover more people. But in reality, my suspicion is that it covers fewer. Perhaps far fewer.

But then, the goal is actually to create such a mess that the nation accepts full-bore socialized medicine out of sheer frustration, so why should the left care how big a mess it is?
 
seekerz said:
They increased in the past week? Oh well, for every businessman who retires there are up and coming young entrepreneurs not afraid to take the plunge. What really amazes me is that some of these companies think customers are sheep - they play the Scrooge in public but would blame Obama if people came together and said: don’t eat there, don’t buy that brand, close your account with that company…
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Unlike the Govt businesses take action before the crisis hits.Tax rates are slated to go up significantly in 51 days . We have already seen significant increases in the cost of health insurance for our employees and anticipate even greater increases come the first of the year.

Have you ever run a business?
 
Ridgerunner said:
But then, the goal is actually to create such a mess that the nation accepts full-bore socialized medicine out of sheer frustration, so why should the left care how big a mess it is?
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More’s the pity. The direct path to socialized medicine would have been my preference too, but our health care system is too complex to make that transition in too short a time I think. I find it laughable that socialized medicine is supposed to be some dark, sinister force when American taxpayers have helped support it in many countries around the world for decades. But then, who can understand the ways of man…?
 
estesbob said:
Unlike the Govt businesses take action before the crisis hits.Tax rates are slated to go up significantly in 51 days . We have already seen significant increases in the cost of health insurance for our employees and anticipate even greater increases come the first of the year.

Have you ever run a business?
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Actually, yes. 🙂

But the very best business people I know are Asian. Seems like they’d know something about Obama’s policies and what to expect…and they voted Obama in droves.
 
seekerz said:
Actually, yes.
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Try running one now and then tell us how greedy and uncaring we are being. i dropped my coverage for employees primarily because of the HHS mandate. In the future I am hiring only part time employees.
 
seekerz said:
Actually, yes. 🙂

But the very best business people I know are Asian. Seems like they’d know something about Obama’s policies and what to expect…and they voted Obama in droves.
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Problem is they mostly live in China.
 
estesbob said:
In the three years after abortion was imposed abortions in the US increased fourfold-from 400,000 a year to 1.6 million a year. The idea that making something illegal has no effect on it is specious-were that true we would need no laws
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Did I say that making something illegal has no effect? No, I said making abortion illegal would be largely ineffective because last I checked, lawmakers cannot diagnose abortion. That is the domain of doctors. Times have changed, technology has changed, attitudes in the medical profession has changed. When my mom was young, she needed a doctor visit and a (I think it was) 6 week wait to confirm pregnancy. Now all any woman needs is the cost of an over-the-counter pregnancy test.
 
seekerz said:
Source?
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You are kidding right? It has already been pointed out to you the pre-Roe v Wade numbers which you conveniently dismiss.

When the culture has an abortion-on-demand mentality…where abortion is legal and easy…the mothers will not second guess a decision. If it is illegal…with consequences…including facilities that may be unsafe to the mother…there will be a more thorough examination of alternate choices such as adoption.
 
estesbob said:
i dropped my coverage for employees primarily because of the HHS mandate. In the future I am hiring only part time employees.
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You are not alone. But as Pelosi said: We have to pass it to see what’s in it. :rolleyes:
 
Mickey said:
You are kidding right? It has already been pointed out to you the pre-Roe v Wade numbers which you conveniently dismiss.

When the culture has an abortion-on-demand mentality…where abortion is legal and easy…the mothers will not second guess a decision. If it is illegal…with consequences…including facilities that may be unsafe to the mother…there will be a more thorough examination of alternate choices such as adoption.
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Women have always, in varying numbers, chosen abortion as a way to avoid difficulties in their lives. Making it more accessible has taken some of the fear and stress away…but to suggest that they do it simply because it’s available? That’s stretching it. Women are NOT mindless robots - they may make bad choices with regard to a pregnancy; that does not mean they have not thought through the matter. Our job is to influence that thought process - not to act like it does not exist.
 
Mickey said:
And you are dead wrong.
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That’s your opinion. Based on my experiences, I see things differently but I’m beginning to understand why you feel the way you do. Trust me, even when they make the wrong choice, women do mentally process their decisions.
 
I could be wrong but Ron Paul has probably shifted the argument where people look at issues like auditing the Fed and wasteful government spending. When Bush was President, I don’t believe National Debt was a big issue and yes, the big spending I have heard said started under him. But the truth is the last 4 years has seen it grown astronomically. It is puzzling how a Democrat President could submit a budget to the House and no one even in his own party would vote for it.

But he gets votes for Presidency otoh, unreal.

Vote for revenge I suppose.
 
seekerz said:
Women have always, in varying numbers, chosen abortion as a way to avoid difficulties in their lives. Making it more accessible has taken some of the fear and stress away…but to suggest that they do it simply because it’s available? That’s stretching it. Women are NOT mindless robots - they may make bad choices with regard to a pregnancy; that does not mean they have not thought through the matter. Our job is to influence that thought process - not to act like it does not exist.
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Really? What’s your source for this? Women have ALWAYS chosen abortion? I don’t think so. Don’t presume to know how women think.
 
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