Conservatives call on GOP leaders to step down

[Mickey]

Now I fully supported Romney, but I would have been elated to have had the more pro-life candidate like Santorum.

Ditto.

 

[Tigg]

Well beyond that I don’t believe I am compromising my soul based on how I vote in secular elections as you apparently believe I am, I posted it because, Lapey, it is an American secular election that we are talking about. No one who voted in the 2012 US election was voting on the next Pope. And America is a land of many faiths and beliefs. It is not a Catholic theocracy. And the law of the land in America is not going to always coincide with your church’s teachings. As much as you may wish it was or that it did.

Sooooo…secularism trumps divine law, huh?

I just read this somewhere and copied the quote, but neglected the link.

Religious law is God-given and is binding ipso facto, independent of the consent of the governed.

It is not subject to adaptation to changing opinions or practices of those who are bound by it.

Atheists will laugh at this, but how can any Christian, whether Catholic or not, not believe it?

 

[CMatt25]

With the changing demographic, the Republican Party will have to reinvent itself. But it can be done with some of its new stars. If Republicans refuse to make any changes, they MAY disappear and another party may take its place. However, I don’t see this happening. I don’t believe we will ever be a one-party country: we’re not built that way.

Neither do I see it happening. It’s also been very difficult for 3rd parties to break through in our system. It’s primarily people in the 2 parties who decide things like ballot access and threshholds to meet in which to particpate in debates. Would seem difficult in our syatem too for a 3rd party to win the Electoral College on the state by state basis.

 

[Cider]

Speaking of stepping down, just heard on the news Holder is supposedly stepping down too

happy dance

 

[CMatt25]

Sooooo…secularism trumps divine law, huh?

I just read this somewhere and copied the quote, but neglected the link.

Atheists will laugh at this, but how can any Christian, whether Catholic or not, not believe it?

Not at all but not everyone believes divine law to be what you believe it to be. That’s something I’m never quite sure some Catholics understand. The US is a nation of many plural beliefs, even some non belief, as well as differing political viewpoints. The law of the land is not always going to reflect Catholic belief of what divine law is.

 

[Tigg]

Interesting read on the Latino Vote, the myths about “social Issues” as being a core foundation of the Latino vote, and the error of thinking simply adopting the more liberal mantra of amnesty and open borders will be a driver for greater Latino vote.

nationalreview.com/corner/332916/why-hispanics-dont-vote-republicans-heather-mac-donald#
*
%between%*I spoke last year with John Echeveste, founder of the oldest Latino marketing firm in southern California, about Hispanic politics. “What Republicans mean by ‘family values’ and what Hispanics mean are two completely different things,” he said. “We are a very compassionate people, we care about other people and understand that government has a role to play in helping people.”
***And a strong reason for that support for big government is that so many Hispanics use government programs. ***U.S.-born Hispanic households in California use welfare programs at twice the rate of native-born non-Hispanic households. And that is because nearly one-quarter of all Hispanics are poor in California, compared to a little over one-tenth of non-Hispanics. Nearly seven in ten poor children in the state are Hispanic, and one in three Hispanic children is poor, compared to less than one in six non-Hispanic children. One can see that disparity in classrooms across the state, which are chock full of social workers and teachers’ aides trying to boost Hispanic educational performance.

The idea of the “social issues” Hispanic voter is also a mirage. A majority of Hispanics now support gay marriage, a Pew Research Center poll from last month found. The Hispanic out-of-wedlock birth rate is 53 percent, about twice that of whites.

This guy is right-on! In our diocese, our bishop recently de-funded an immigrant rights coalition for their lobbying of the state legislature for SS marriage. Not only do Latinos support it, but study after study is showing them leaving the Catholic Church in favor of Protestant Charismatic denominations.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

If the GOP can successfully pursue the Hispanic vote, as suggested by Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush and ME, they can secure enough votes to give the Dems a run for their money. They have to compromise on a DREAM Act proposal and stop rattling sabres over heavy handed border control. Generally speaking, Hispanics are a hardworking fairly conservative group that might find GOP ideas attractive IF they felt welcome to the Party.

 

[Marie5890]

WASHINGTON—Six conservative leaders blasted Mitt Romney as a “weak, moderate” candidate and called for Republican Party leaders to resign a day after Democrats dealt the GOP a sweeping defeat in the 2012 elections. Brent Bozell, founder of the Media Research Center, Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of the pro-life Susan B. Anthony List, and Jenny Beth Martin, national coordinator for the Tea Party Patriots, were among the press conference speakers who laid “the epic election failure of 2012” at the feet of Republican elites. Republican National Chairman Reince Priebus, Senatorial Committee Chairman John Cornyn, Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, and House Speaker John Boehner were all identified as individuals who “should be replaced with leaders more in tune with the conservative base of the Republican Party…"

worldmag.com/2012/11/conservatives_call_on_gop_leaders_to_step_down

oh yea…

 

[BroomWagon]

This guy is right-on! In our diocese, our bishop recently de-funded an immigrant rights coalition for their lobbying of the state legislature for SS marriage. Not only do Latinos support it, but study after study is showing them leaving the Catholic Church in favor of Protestant Charismatic denominations.

Fast and Furious Guns have killed people in Mexico and one of our Border Agents I believe, Bryan Terry but those who are upset about this in the Hispanic community does not seem to be very sizable. There are probably some.

So these issues of immigration reform and Fast and Furious are probably of limited importance to Hispanics.

The Arizona law has been said to have racial profiling by those against it but may well not and is being used again, as a political ploy.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

I do not agree with this, I understand your point; however, I believe the fact that 3 million less people came out for Romney than McCain is very telling. How long has it been since a real conservative was on the ballot and there was a frenzy to go out and vote for him…that would be Reagan. We haven’t had one since. If you would see a pure conservative on the presidential ticket, he/she would win in my opinion.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

If the GOP can successfully pursue the Hispanic vote, as suggested by Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush and ME, they can secure enough votes to give the Dems a run for their money. They have to compromise on a DREAM Act proposal and stop rattling sabres over heavy handed border control. Generally speaking, Hispanics are a hardworking fairly conservative group that might find GOP ideas attractive IF they felt welcome to the Party.

Dave, if the 3 million Repubs that didn’t vote had voted, Romney would have won the p.v. by over 100,000.

I would love to get more of the Hispanic vote: Romney 21%, McCain 30+%, W 40%, so it isn’t like we didn’t get our share.

This election ended up being way down for Obama, just even further down for the Repubs, I think because

1.R is only a moderate conservative

1. Romneycare killed our best argument
2. Romney is a Mormon (not saying that not voting for a Mormon is right, just that it is a fact)

 

[Tigg]

If the GOP can successfully pursue the Hispanic vote, as suggested by Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush and ME, they can secure enough votes to give the Dems a run for their money. They have to compromise on a DREAM Act proposal and stop rattling sabres over heavy handed border control. Generally speaking, Hispanics are a hardworking fairly conservative group that might find GOP ideas attractive IF they felt welcome to the Party.

The Republicans would compromise on amnesty (many of them already have and George W. led the crowd) but don’t expect the same from real conservatives. Most are patriots (different from nationalists,) patriotism being a Christian virtue. They strongly support the right of a nation to defend its borders and the conservatives I know (many Catholic) would rather help our friends south of the border with more constructive means than to allow the dessication of this nation by bankrupting its citizens.

 

[CMatt25]

Demographics, the thing that was key to Obama’s reelection could be what saves traditional marriage at the ballot box in America. 59% of Latinos in California voted against homosexual marriage.

Here’s another poll for your collection, Abyssinia. More than half of Latinos favor SS marriage. The times they may be changin’. And more and more people may come to the conclusion the voters did in Maryland and Maine.

reuters.com/article/2012/10/19/us-usa-gaymarriage-latinos-idUSBRE89I0WF20121019

 

[_Abyssinia]

Interesting read on the Latino Vote, the myths about “social Issues” as being a core foundation of the Latino vote, and the error of thinking simply adopting the more liberal mantra of amnesty and open borders will be a driver for greater Latino vote.

nationalreview.com/corner/332916/why-hispanics-dont-vote-republicans-heather-mac-donald#
*
%between%*I spoke last year with John Echeveste, founder of the oldest Latino marketing firm in southern California, about Hispanic politics. “What Republicans mean by ‘family values’ and what Hispanics mean are two completely different things,” he said. “We are a very compassionate people, we care about other people and understand that government has a role to play in helping people.”
***And a strong reason for that support for big government is that so many Hispanics use government programs. ***U.S.-born Hispanic households in California use welfare programs at twice the rate of native-born non-Hispanic households. And that is because nearly one-quarter of all Hispanics are poor in California, compared to a little over one-tenth of non-Hispanics. Nearly seven in ten poor children in the state are Hispanic, and one in three Hispanic children is poor, compared to less than one in six non-Hispanic children. One can see that disparity in classrooms across the state, which are chock full of social workers and teachers’ aides trying to boost Hispanic educational performance.

*The idea of the “social issues” Hispanic voter is also a mirage. A majority of Hispanics now support gay marriage, a Pew Research Center poll from last month found. The Hispanic out-of-wedlock birth rate is 53 percent, about twice that of whites. *

Not convicned of that poll’s accuracy

washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/08/blacks-hispanics-nixed-gay-marriage/?page=all

“Inner-city black neighborhoods voted stronger for Prop. 8 than the Republican suburbs. An amazing analysis,” Mr. Pugno continued

Blacks voted 70 percent in favor of Proposition 8, and slightly more than half the Hispanic voters backed the measure, according to exit polls released by the National Election Pool.

And this was on in 1 of the most liberal states. Polls say most Latinos support homosexual ‘marriage’ and polls say most people in general support homosexual ‘marriage.’ If that were true why do 32 states have constitutional amendments been passed? Homosexual marriage passed in Maryland, Maine and Washington, all liberal states with not very diverse populations

 

[_Abyssinia]

Here’s another poll for your collection, Abyssinia. More than half of Latinos favor SS marriage. The times they may be changin’. And more and more people may come to the conclusion the voters did in Maryland and Maine.

reuters.com/article/2012/10/19/us-usa-gaymarriage-latinos-idUSBRE89I0WF20121019

Responded to this above

 

[Mickey]

The times they may be changin’.

But Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said: For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.
Matt 19:4-5

 

[Tigg]

Not at all but not everyone believes divine law to be what you believe it to be. That’s something I’m never quite sure some Catholics understand. The US is a nation of many plural beliefs, even some non belief, as well as differing political viewpoints. The law of the land is not always going to reflect Catholic belief of what divine law is.

I think you need to read what you wrote in response to the quote I posted!! Maybe I’m just not understanding…

Here’s the quote again:

Religious law is God-given and is binding ipso facto, independent of the consent of the governed.

It is not subject to adaptation to changing opinions or practices of those who are bound by it.

I don’t even know if this quote came from a Catholic source so we aren’t talking about Catholics specifically. Are you now saying that non-Catholic Christians do not believe that God is sovereign or has authority over secular law?

 

[CMatt25]

But Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said: For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.
Matt 19:4-5

Perhaps but first you have to get everyone to agree on what that is and what it means. Not everyone even believes Christ is Lord and Savior like you and I do. Neither does everyone or even all Christian faiths have the same interpretation of Scripture that you do.

 

[meltzerboy]

The Republicans would compromise on amnesty (many of them already have and George W. led the crowd) but don’t expect the same from real conservatives. Most are patriots (different from nationalists,) patriotism being a Christian virtue. They strongly support the right of a nation to defend its borders and the conservatives I know (many Catholic) would rather help our friends south of the border with more constructive means than to allow the dessication of this nation by bankrupting its citizens.

That may be true, but I’m also reminded of the famous saying by Samuel Johnson: “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”

 

[CMatt25]

Responded to this above

Yes I saw. But if I recall correctly you weren’t convinced either of Presidential election polls showing President Obama winning the Electoral College and reelection.