Conservatives call on GOP leaders to step down

[seekerz]

One other question if I may? Which Commandments are being broken?

The commandment to love.

 

[Mickey]

Unfortunately, CMatt, this is not about what the Church really says

Sure it is.

the vengeful bosses firing people in retaliation,

Retaliation? I have heard that they will not be able to afford Obamacare.

the bitter media personalities

Like MSNBC?

The means of spreading the Gospel on the other hand, remains what it has always been: living it for the world to see.

And it is my prayer that more people will come to know that it is intrinically evil to support someone who champions abortion on demand, infanticide, and homosexual “marriages.”

 

[seekerz]

Your anger is really showing through on this thread…maybe the mods will shut it down now. But first a bump on Pete’s post:

Anger, what reason do I have to be angry? I call to God and He answers me, what else do I need in life but to seek to share that incredible relationship with others?

 

[seekerz]

I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this but the Church is the authority not thought police. She gives us guidelines, we follow. That’s the way it works, unless it’s the other way, party before Church. But that would be calling you partisan, and I won’t do that.

I agree. She gives guidelines on how to participate in the democratic process. She does not dictate every detail of adults’ lives. Historically, the Church has sought to educate her children, provide them with teaching and guidance, and trust them to apply all of that to real life. Nowhere does she expect adults to function like they’re plugged in to a huge, common hard drive.

 

[seekerz]

Sure it is.
Retaliation? I have heard that they will not be able to afford Obamacare.
Like MSNBC?
And it is my prayer that more people will come to know that it is intrinically evil to support someone who champions abortion on demand, infanticide, and homosexual “marriages.”

You do know there’s more to the Gospel than focusing on the sins we disclaim any responsibility for, right?

 

[CMatt25]

Unfortunately, CMatt, this is not about what the Church really says, but about what some people would like it to say.

I understand

 

[Mickey]

You do know there’s more to the Gospel than focusing on the sins we disclaim any responsibility for, right?

There is much to the Gospel…it is an endless fountain of grace.

 

[seekerz]

There is much to the Gospel…it is an endless fountain of grace.

Indeed it is.

 

[ishii]

So just being pro choice makes you a Euro Socialist? Oh yeah I forgot Rudy Guliani was a Socialist, and Scot Brown lost his race in Mass because he was a socialist:nope::nope:There are conservatives who are as pro choice as Obama. Sure not too many, but i’m sure they exist. I would think someone like Ayn Rand would be pro choice

Where did I say that being pro-abortion makes one a socialist? I would appreciate you not misrepresenting my posts, benjamin. Obama is a Euro style socialist because he is seeking to remake our country in the mold of a Euro-style socialist country where the people look to the government for handouts, the Church is weakened and de-emphasized, and fiscal discipline goes down the drain. Oh, and one other feature is secular leftist cultural/social policies - euthanasia, abortion, gay rights, etc. Its the complete package, and Obama is pushing our country toward that by sneaky, behind the scenes manuevering - HHS mandate, e.g., and by putting us down the path of socialized medicine. Its the brave new world. But its not America.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Yes, the Democrats are the best at demonizing: they do EVERYTHNG better! Seriously though, one would have to be in denial to say that the Republicans are not expert demonizers as well. Oldcelt’s point is well taken.

You’re avoiding my point, meltzerboy. Again, who in the leadership of the GOP called Obama anything except that he is “a good man” that they disagree with? On the otherhand, the Democrats - Biden, e.g. said that Romney/Ryan “will put you back in chains.” Reid, in a fit of McCarthyism called Romney a tax evader but had no evidence whatsoever. The Republicans, according to Obama, didn’t care about clean water or clean air and didn’t care about “kids with autism.”

Ishii

 

[ishii]

I have been saying for MONTHS that Rence Prebius needs to be fired and replaced. Everyone laughed at me and called me a reactionist. I claimed for months that the GOP establishment was working as hard as it could to put Romney in place. I was told I was being silly. I said that the GOP was playing by the same playbook as 2008. People rolled their eyes at me.

The GOP’s chickens have come home to roost. Enjoy the next 4 years. I already have my plans.

Again, this is not about the GOP really. Its about decades of leftist control of our education system come home to roost. More and more people on the dole or benefitting from the status quo - public sector unions, etc. A press which is basically a propoganda wing of the Obama administration (Candy Crowley, e.g.). Those things have come home to roost. Nominate a “true believer” conservative, a libertarian, Ron Paul, Santorum, or some other dream candidate and you’ll get the same result because the balance now is in favor of the statists, the secular leftists. They now have 51% of the electorate. The president can lie about an attack on our embassy that killed 4 Americans, in order to protect his campaign. He can be a failure in all aspects save getting bin Laden. But he still wins, despite whatever the GOP does. The left has succeded. This will continue until the money is gone and no one will loan to us. Then riots will ensue. Then tyranny.

Ishii

 

[7_Sorrows]

My problem is with Catholics that have different views than the Church and automatically assume that Church is wrong and not themselves. Not necessarily anyone here, but I’ve heard such things from members of my own family.

let me tell you my dilemma. i left the episcopal church because of so much in fighting and the episcopal church was moving farther and farther to the left. also, one of the issues which drew me to the Catholic church was being pro-life and not apologzing for it. i feel they are such a voice for the unborn. imagine my horror after joining the church 4 years ago and realizing how many Catholics have voted for Obama - a man who thumbs his nose at the Catholic church herself as well as thumbing his nose at all the unborn who are not wanted.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Lapey, Seekerz explained to me somewhere back there that the Catholic Church says there can be proportional reason and the reasons don’t need to be the same for everyone. If there are none, then how can there be proportionate reasons the Church speaks about?.

There are proportionate reasons, here is what Catholic Bishops, priests and what a prominent Catholic have to say on what they are and what they are not

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Again, this is not about the GOP really. Its about decades of leftist control of our education system come home to roost. More and more people on the dole or benefitting from the status quo - public sector unions, etc. A press which is basically a propoganda wing of the Obama administration (Candy Crowley, e.g.). Those things have come home to roost. Nominate a “true believer” conservative, a libertarian, Ron Paul, Santorum, or some other dream candidate and you’ll get the same result because the balance now is in favor of the statists, the secular leftists. They now have 51% of the electorate. The president can lie about an attack on our embassy that killed 4 Americans, in order to protect his campaign. He can be a failure in all aspects save getting bin Laden. But he still wins, despite whatever the GOP does. The left has succeded. This will continue until the money is gone and no one will loan to us. Then riots will ensue. Then tyranny.

Ishii

I know that this country has been taken over by fascist totalitarians. That’s why I’m leaving. America is unfixable. American expatriotism has increased every year Obama has been in office, a trend I don’t see slowing down. In fact, I expect the opposite. I just wonder how these guys are going to run things when the tax base leaves town. Many are moving to Singapore and Brazil, which are MUCH more friendly for business and don’t have the invasive police state that we have become. Plus Brazil has nicer beaches.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Exit poll from Edison research

american.com/archive/2012/november/election-results-from-a-to-z

Government’s role: When voters were asked which was closer to their view, 43% said that government needs to do more to solve problems, while 51% said that government is doing too many things better left to businesses and individuals. Three-quarters of voters who said government is doing too many things voted for Romney; 8 in 10 voters who said government should do more voted for Obama.

In Quinnipiac’s national poll from September, the results (40% said government should do more, while 52% said it was doing too much) were similar to Election Day results.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Exit poll from Edison research

american.com/archive/2012/november/election-results-from-a-to-z

So, the exit poll shows a vast majority of voters think the government does too much, and yet Obama won decisively? What am I missing?

I think the government does too much, so I’m gonna vote for the guy who is promising more and bigger government. American voters are schizophrenic.

 

[JustaServant]

So, the exit poll shows a vast majority of voters think the government does too much, and yet Obama won decisively? What am I missing?

Voter fraud?

 

[Tigg]

My point is simply that I don’t understand if they leave, or in their minds they might feel pushed away. I don’t know in every case how a person might feel. **But if they’re not there, how do you expect them to hear the truth you and other deacons and the new younger priests are speaking of. That’s the part I don’t get. **

This is somewhat off topic, but still is the direction this thread has gone. This is the Year of Faith and maybe some latitude can be given for the purposes of evangelization.

Maybe this will help you which addresses a scripture you have already referenced:

Seeing that many of His disciples were leaving, Jesus addressed the Apostles, saying: “Will you also go away?” (John 6:67). As in other cases, it is Peter who replied on behalf of the Twelve: “Lord, to whom shall we go? – and we too can reflect: to whom shall we go? – You have the words of eternal life and we have believed and know that You are the Holy One of God” (John 6:68-69).

On this passage we have a beautiful commentary of St. Augustine, who says in one of his homilies on John 6: **“Do you see how Peter, by the grace of God, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, has understood? Why did he understand? Because he believed. You have the words of eternal life. You give us eternal life by offering your risen body and your blood, your very self. And we have believed and understood. He does not say we have understood and then we believed, but we believed and then we understood. We have believed in order to be able to understand; if, in fact, we wanted to understand before believing, we would not be able either to understand or to believe. **

What have we believed and what have we understood? That You are the Christ, the Son of God, that is, that You are that very eternal life, and that You give in Your flesh and blood only that which You are? (Commentary on the Gospel of John, 27, 9). So Saint Augustine said in a homily to his faithful people.

In related comments, Father John Hollowell noted that “a cafeteria Catholic has taken true premises through to false conclusions while also lacking the courage to ACT on those false conclusions. Is there anything more illogical than that ‘catholics’ who hate the Church?”

convertjournal.com/2012/09/elsewhere-dissident-catholics/

A few months ago, there was a heated thread about the Dublin bishop who urged lapsed Catholics to have the maturity to leave the Church…ironically, much the same sentiment is echoed in Hebrews 6:4-8 ~

*‘For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.’
*

Cardinal Ratzinger wrote of heresy stating that once a doubt is allowed to enter the mind, it poisons the faith because one truth is interconnected to another. That is the nature of heresy.

So, there are some serious questions for those who doubt Church teaching and as it relates to voting Catholics…am I honest in my search for truth and have I authentically submitted my will and intellect to God, or have I simply rebelled against that which I find distasteful in allowing my own opinions to take precedence over objective truth?

I know that for myself, if I did not believe what the Church teaches, I’d be out of there so fast…in order to find my way by another path. Especially in primary matters relating to intrinsic evils which was really the focus Catholics should have addressed in this election.

 

[seekerz]

There are proportionate reasons, here is what Catholic Bishops, priests and what a prominent Catholic have to say on what they are and what they are not

Thank you very much.

1. The people you quote do NOT give a comprehensive list of proportionate reasons but do give very relevant examples, examples which I can very much identify with.
2. This quote in particular, makes sense to me in light of the campaign we just experienced:

Note that "proportionate reasons’] does not mean simply weighing a wide range of issues against abortion and euthanasia and concluding that they cumulatively outweigh the evil of taking an innocent life. Rather, for there to be proportionate reasons, the voter would have to be convinced that the candidate who supports abortion rights would actually do more than the opposing candidate to limit the harm of abortion or to reduce the number of abortions.

Having had close contact with multiple women who aborted, I can categorically say that I neither believe legislation can be effective in preventing abortion if most women/docs are bent on having access to it (which seems to be the case), nor do I believe that passing laws to restrict abortion will have as great an effect as helping women to have a better standard of living. The statistics I have seen certainly seem to support the idea that abortion rates increase as one goes from more developed to less developed nations.

This stance is NOT the same as saying that economic concerns outweigh abortion, but rather it is a recognition of what government strategies ACTUALLY WORK better to decrease abortion. So, part of my proportionate reasoning, is choosing to support the candidate who genuinely seems to be more concerned with improving the lot of the vulnerable. The trend of pay scales and wealth over recent decades in this country certainly suggest that it is possible for a government to preside over a healthy economy which does little or nothing to improve the socioeconomic condition of the more needy among us. So for me it is not simply a question of who will do the most to improve the economy, but who will actively (not just passively) promote the good of those who need the most.

 

[seekerz]

I know that this country has been taken over by fascist totalitarians. That’s why I’m leaving. America is unfixable. American expatriotism has increased every year Obama has been in office, a trend I don’t see slowing down. In fact, I expect the opposite. I just wonder how these guys are going to run things when the tax base leaves town. Many are moving to Singapore and Brazil, which are MUCH more friendly for business and don’t have the invasive police state that we have become. Plus Brazil has nicer beaches.

Fascist totalitarians? Is one of their characteristics fear of mirrors?