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oldcelt
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And here I was worried about them commies
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Scott_Lafrance
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Don’t know, don’t care.
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Scott_Lafrance
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Well, their here. Congratulations.
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Elizabeth502
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First, you seem to have changed your position from much earlier on CAF, when you and I came to some similar conclusions about disincentives for abortion, in terms of the process. The discussion at that time was not about criminalizing abortion so much as being aggressive about other elements fostering it. (i.e., a public policy discouraging a casual, private, and easy accessibility to it, a policy with several features reflecting disapproval of abortion as a post-contraceptive).
Clearly, from your above paragraph, your “close contact” is limited mostly to poor women. However, here you fall into the trap (which many on the other side also do), of assuming that correlation is causation. (A) Internationally, the factors correlating with abortion differ from those in the United States. (B) Further, even then, the correlative vs the causal factors have to be analyzed.
In the U.S., married poor women as a category do not abort at a high rate. Unmarried poor women do, which is logical, given the prospect of zero commitment from the sperm donor – translating to lack of support for her pregnancy, motherhood, and the financial survivial of such a family.
Marriage is the best anti-abortifacient ever. (Note: in this country)
Age is also a factor, given (a) fertility, (b) inexperience with contraception and all the aspects of reproduction, (c) lower income by virtue of age (including in-process education, including less advanced employment status).
The “standard of living” per se in the U.S. is not causative or even correlative, rather the strongest correlative is being single.
The discussion on this thread is not about developed vs. undeveloped nations. We’re still #1 in the former category. This portion of the thread, on which you also touched, mentioned U.S. abortion policy.
Social units are deeply, while often unconsciously, tied to biology. Women and men, both, are often loathe to commit to the consequences of conception absent the family unit. All of the denial in the world, in the developed countries, cannot eradicate the reality that, unlike some animals, human beings are not random mating machines but depend on sustained relationships for a context for new life and the propagation of the species. Funny how that concept is built right into Catholic theology about marriage, personhood, life, family, sexuality.
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Mickey_Finn
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I think I see the problem with the GOP.
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livnlern
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These are words from Thomas Jefferson:
“And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance?”
We can’t just throw in the towel on this. We have to fight back. This is MY country just as much as any Dem or any atheist. My dad and uncles fought in WWII, my cousin in Vietnam, my brother in Desert Storm. I’m going to pray very much and do whatever I can to turn things around for my children and my country. I’m only one person, but there are a lot of other people here who feel as I do.
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seekerz
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My views have always been the same: multifaceted and based on personal experience.
If you can’t see a link between marriage and poverty, here’s a hint: men tend marry women who they think will help them rise socioeconomically, love notwithstanding. That’s why my grandparents split up even though there are nonagenarians around who will tell you she was his one, true love. My story is hardly unique. I have yet to see one choose love over poverty, but I guess such exemplary husbands do exist…at least I’m hoping. Women also try to ensure financial security in their choice of a husband much of the time. I grew up knowing people who felt they couldn’t ‘afford’ to get married, so I do know a thing or two.
As to your comment about other countries, what happens around the world among other human beings, is at least tangentially relevant to what happens here. I’m simply expressing the link that I see, backed up by statistics I looked up, between poor socioeconomic condition and abortion. It’s not hard to collect a couple thousand women and ask them, confidentially, why they chose to abort. The main reason is socioeconomic - and no, that does not simply mean how much money a person has: it has to do with prospects, level of education, influencing factors, social support, living environment… and yes, marital status, to name a few.
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Jeanne_S
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Wonder what would happpen if taxpayer,simply refused to pay their taxes?This is a rhetorical question
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Tampa_Dave
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While in law school, I broke up with a female law student whose father was a very wealthy and connected attorney. I immediately began dating a social worker, the daughter of a local union electrician. We have been happily married over twenty-seven years. So, I disagree with your premise. And I hardly consider myself exemplary. Just another lawyer among thousands.
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ishii
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While I agree with much of Scott Lafrance’s sentiment, I have to agree here with your sentiment on not giving up. I think the left has finally gotten to the point where they can win 51% of the vote no matter who the Republicans nominate, for reasons I have outlined in earlier posts. But, I will still support the GOP nominee in 2016. I think they should nominate Rubio and Jindal. The 2012 election was not a good day for those who believe in the constitution, and not a good day for those who value the sanctity of life. I think we might be entering a dark age. That said, one never knows the future, and given that, I think we need to press on with the struggle to preserve what we have left of America. I am not as optimistic about our chances for success, but I am just as convinced as I was a week ago that we need to continue the fight.
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seekerz
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I stand corrected: men who grow up poor tend to choose financial stability over love. Just for clarity, the poverty I refer to does not generally include access to law school or even necessarily to the other occupations you mention - though there are exceptions to every rule.
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Tampa_Dave
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Perhaps so with that clarification. For the record, I paid every dime of the cost of my BA and Juris Doctor degrees. I had no connections in the legal world. I would have clearly been better off with the cute blond rich girl from law school. Instead, I married the beautiful French Canadian brunette social worker. Turned out to be a great deal for me!
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oldcelt
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Vee have Ways of making you pay…muahhahaWonder what would happpen if taxpayer,simply refused to pay their taxes?This is a rhetorical question
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ishii
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Get used to a prison cell.Wonder what would happpen if taxpayer,simply refused to pay their taxes?This is a rhetorical question
Ishii
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_Abyssinia
Guest
A way for conservatives to reach those in urban areas is to navigate the issue of crime
rightoncrime.com
You have to engage on issues that affect communities
rightoncrime.com
You have to engage on issues that affect communities
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livnlern
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You’re right about entering into dark times. But in reality, this has been coming on for a long time. Our country has been under attack from the left at least since the 1960s. They’ve taken over the news media and the entertainment media and have begun to try to tell us what we can say in public, what we can eat and drink, and how much of our religious beliefs can be seen in public areas. It’s been a long slow drip of their ideals that’s eroded the morals in our society. And I’ve been as guilty as anyone of going along and not saying anything.
Well, times have changed. I’ll do what I can each day to make a difference. I’ll pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help me do my part to help others see how evil these ideas are and will pray the Rosary and Divine Mercy chaplet to help our country out of these difficult times. I feel that God is on our side, but we haven’t always responded to Him as we should by allowing the moral decay around us. The devil is definitely on the other side.
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seekerz
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Be still and know that He is God…the first mistake I see from your post is the seeming attribution of all things undesirable to “the left” and to “evil”. That is neither realistic, nor fair, nor respectful of people who don’t hold your ideology.
Yes, the Devil exists and strives against the things of God. No - is no respecter of ideologies: he’ll take whoever he gets. So we ALL need to get off our high horses and take heed lest we fall. I think there has been ample behavior that most definitely is not sanctioned by God happening on the left, right and in the center.
The election happened - somebody won. So what? That’s why elections are held. It was never meant to be a martyrdom experience.
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ishii
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I understand that the those on the left would like others to believe what you’re saying above. That makes it much easier to justify voting for a president who supports infanticide. Notice that the poster you refer to never attributed to the left all evil, and actually said, “And I’ve been as guilty as anyone of going along and not saying anything.” Some of us, Seekerz, are concerned about the plight of the unborn and the sanctity of life as a result of this election. That so many catholics voted for Obama shows how blind some are to evil.
Ishii
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_Abyssinia
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meltzerboy
New member
Calling Hillary…
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