Conservatives call on GOP leaders to step down

[Mark121359]

This is such a load of hypocrisy. When it was, and 50% still is, the One Holy Catholic democrat Church you were okay with that.

The Democrat Party has left the Church and Her beliefs long ago, but unfortunately many still are more faithful to the DP than Mother Church.

Many here label me a partisan, Catholic Guy ridicules me with this comment that you, a partisan democrat, validate, but it’s me who is the partisan. Ok, I can take it. But I will not compromise my Catholic values.

I challenge any of you liberals to read the party platforms in light of Catholic teachings and see which matches better, which supports intrinsic evils and which does not.

This is a Catholic forum; I am a Catholic Deacon, a clergy member in His Church. Why would I talk of believing in or supporting anything contrary to the Catholic faith? I am not here to be an unbiased neutered hypocrite; I am here to represent the Church in Her fullness and I shall.

Now some here call themselves Catholic but only toe party line, some toe party line and are ashamed to list that they are Catholic, which they are even though they work against Her. Our Church is going through a period of “cleansing” and I can assure you it will get worse. The priests coming out of seminaries these days are not going left, they are going right with the Church, where She always has been. I’ve heard Arch Bishop Fulton Sheen quoted this past year more than ever in my lifetime, Praise God! He got it right. What is you opinion of him? I guess he was a partisan too…

The deacons coming out and being ordained these days are preaching the whole truth, and lately many priests and bishops are getting the strong message of truth out. I would like nothing more than to sit and hear my pastor preach Church truths every weekend, as of now every time there is a “hard” subject to preach on it is my turn to preach. I’m okay with that, but it should be the priest.

The Democrat Party has left the Church; it is past time for the Church to leave the Democrat Party. We are Catholics before we are rep or dem, we are Catholic before we are conservative or liberal. The Catholic Church is truth because the Truth is the Head of Her, conform you will to Him and you too will see the light.

Boy, you nailed it! Well spoken Deacon Gary! Hey, we can use some Deacons like you up here in liberal Maryland. :thumbsup: :D

 

[BroomWagon]

It’s a whole different ballgame in the presidential race. People will vote for someone who looks like them in droves.

And with the ruin of the economy and possibly the dollar coming soon, there will a cry from all peoples from all corners of the country for conservatism.

There are chances I hate to say being disappointed though that Taxamageddon could be very damaging, that and other things. Greece? I don’t know.

Rubio’s speech at the Brookings Institute may have come off a bit hawkish:

humanevents.com/2012/04/25/sen-marco-rubios-address-on-us-foreign-policy/

Mitt wasn’t on TV much, the Mainstream Media did not give him the adulation, just this did not give him as much exposure.

As it was, with Cain, Bachmann, we had some diversity in there.

The Democrats play on every thing, Bush and the war after 911, so that’s why I mentioned Rubio’s speech at the Brookings Institute, it’s a hard road to hoe.

We could have an international conflagration too in the Middle East, though all that has happened has probably been saber rattling.

So, we will see what kind of candidate we get.

 

[CMatt25]

Cmatt, I believe it was observed that even though many hispanics are socially conservative and traditional, they still overwhelmingly supported the abortion candidate Obama.
Ishii

On another thread, Ishii, I don’t believe, I know I posted a poll taken just last month showing the majority of Latinos are in favor of SS marriage. I realize conservatives as was done on that thread reject that poll. And Obama was a candidate of many issues beyond abortion and SS marriage.

 

[CMatt25]

That so many Catholics voted for Obama shows that human beings are not robots, period. Blindness? How about the ‘new religion’ where the only and supreme sin is abortion? What kind of vision is that?

Good points

 

[He_Man]

So your answer to my 1st question is you’re expecting Scalia to retire? I’m for the sanctity of life, Ishii, and for protecting people’s rights. For me the sanctity of life also includes the lives of women and that of their families. For instance I don’t want Big Brother government forcing a decision on women who have been raped. They know better than me or the government how such a terrible thing affects their and their families lives. Yes I realize Paul Ryan says rape is just another manner of conception. But I am not going to put myself in the shoes of those women. Nor any woman. And I realize in the real world protecting rights is not always black and white. God bless you, Ishii. And God bless America.

I’d beck a few paychecks Scalia is not going anywhere. He’ll hang on and give it one more shot. His son’s a Priest, he knows the battle we are in.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

Why vote for either party when they dont give us what we want? There are to many third parties and none make it into the media. WE need a real change and the Republicans will not give it to us. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils.

 

[CMatt25]

I’d beck a few paychecks Scalia is not going anywhere. He’ll hang on and give it one more shot. His son’s a Priest, he knows the battle we are in.

That’s what I expect. That’s one of the reasons I don’t quite understand all of the gloom and doom. Although I sort of expected Justice Ginsburg to retire before this election to assure an Obama appointment and that didn’t happen. And it’s still years away but if I were a betting man which I’m not, my early money would be on Jeb, although I’m not sure America would do a Bush III or on Marco as the nominee in 16. Odds are right now either one would give the GOP FL which has gone blue the last 2 times. 16 will also be after 2 terms of the Democratic Party controlling the WH and America usually doesn’t go beyond 3 terms of one party in the WH. I’m thinking Reagan, Reagan, and Bush I. So it is possible the Democrat would win in 16 especially if the economy is doing better by then. And there was Clinton, Clinton, and then Gore winning the popular. But the point is if the GOP adapts, the American electorate has a history of swinging the pendulum back and forth.

 

[Pork_Roll]

Why vote for either party when they dont give us what we want? There are to many third parties and none make it into the media. WE need a real change and the Republicans will not give it to us. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils.

I agree. But of course the third party doesn’t have the financial backing to run against the big boys and will be attacked viciously by the party that will lose the most voters.

 

[ringil]

And there was Clinton, Clinton, and then Gore winning the popular. But the point is if the GOP adapts, the American electorate has a history of swinging the pendulum back and forth.

I agree that Americans don’t usually want more than 8 years with one Party in the White House. This coupled with the lack of Democratic stars ready to take up the gauntlet will mean that unless the GOP picks a complete wacko, they will get 2016.

Cory Booker won’t be ready for the Dems in 2016, but when he is ready; he will mop the floor with any GOP they throw at him for the White House.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

I agree. But of course the third party doesn’t have the financial backing to run against the big boys and will be attacked viciously by the party that will lose the most voters.

I just hate feeling helpless

 

[CMatt25]

Why vote for either party when they dont give us what we want? There are to many third parties and none make it into the media. WE need a real change and the Republicans will not give it to us. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils.

How does a 3rd party break through to win the Electoral College when for example they have difficulty meeting criteria to participate in debates with the 2 majors? I saw CSpan covered the debate among the 3rd party candidates but how many people would have even known that? Without the ability to become more known, I don’t see how one becomes a strong long term viable 3rd party with the manner in which our politcal system functions. Usually the most they do is to find themselves in spoiler roles. Think Ralph Nader in FL in 2000 and Ross Perot. In 2010 in FL the Tea Party’s Republican candidate for governor, Rick Scott won over the Democratic Party’s candidate by about 1% and about 3% of the electorate voted for various other minor candidates who many if not most Floridians may never have heard of until they saw their ballot. And within a yr polls showed his popularity had plummeted. Not sure where it is now.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

How does a 3rd party break through to win the Electoral College when for example they have difficulty meeting criteria to participate in debates with the 2 majors? I saw CSpan covered the debate among the 3rd party candidates but how many people would have even known that? Without the ability to become more known, I don’t see how one becomes a strong long term viable 3rd party. Usually the most they do is to find themselves in spilier roles. Think Ralph Nader in FL in 2000 and Ross Perot. In 2010 in FL the Tea Party’s Republican candidate for governor, Rick Scott won over the Democratic Perty’s candidate by about 1% and about 3% of the electorate voted for various other minor candidates who many if not most Floridians may never have heard of until they saw their ballot. And within a yr polls showed his popularity had plummeted. Not sure where it is now.

We need to change how we vote. I did not even know about the c-span thing. we should do something. we need real change and hope

 

[CMatt25]

I agree that Americans don’t usually want more than 8 years with one Party in the White House. This coupled with the lack of Democratic stars ready to take up the gauntlet will mean that unless the GOP picks a complete wacko, they will get 2016.

Cory Booker won’t be ready for the Dems in 2016, but when he is ready; he will mop the floor with any GOP they throw at him for the White House.

I’m not at all saying I expect her to run. But I wouldn’t mind seeing another Clinton - Bush race. Democratic female vs another GOP white male. I have doubts she would be denied her party’s nomination a 2nd time. The 1st time was largely due to her original support for the Iraq war I think and Obama’s oppositon to it from the get go. It was my primary reason for supporting Obama over her at the time.

 

[CMatt25]

We need to change how we vote. I did not even know about the c-span thing. we should do something. we need real change and hope

I didn’t either. I was surfing to watch an Obama rally I think and came across a replay of it. I watched it for a moment or 2. But I had already decided I was voting between the 2 who had a chance. I voted 3rd party in 2010, ended up with a Tea Party backed governor winning by a percent and vowed in 2012 not to make the same mistake twice. I nearly voted for Nader in 2000. Not because I didn’t like Gore but because I didn’t like the VP pick Lieberman. Didn’t decide until on my way to my polling place to vote for Gore as a vote against Bush.

 

[CMatt25]

I know that for myself, if I did not believe what the Church teaches, I’d be out of there so fast…in order to find my way by another path. Especially in primary matters relating to intrinsic evils which was really the focus Catholics should have addressed in this election.

Tigg, so you’re saying 50% of Catholics should get out so fast? I realize some of that 50%do not attend Mass weekly. But some do. I won’t name names of course but we’ve seen Catholics here on the forum, Obama voters, who indicate they practice the faith and attend Mass regularly. You know of some of them I’m sure. So they should get out too? And when they’ve been Baptized and even Confirmed and are considered Catholics by the Catholic Church, sure they can get out of practicing the faith or get out of attending Mass if that’s what you want and then would not be in full communion but how exactly do they get completely out? I’ve had a Catholic Apostolic successor from the hierarchy as well as Catholics here, though not all here, who have told me the Catholic Church teaches OCAC by virtue of a Catholic’s Baptism. Not all but even some fully practicing orthodox conservative Catholics who I’d say probably voted for Romney have said that.

 

[HansTrappist]

Tigg, so you’re saying 50% of Catholics should get out so fast? I realize some of that 50%do not attend Mass weekly. But some do. I won’t name names of course but we’ve seen Catholics here on the forum, Obama voters, who indicate they practice the faith and attend Mass regularly. You know of some of them I’m sure. So they should get out too? And when they’ve been Baptized and even Confirmed and are considered Catholics by the Catholic Church, sure they can get out of practicing the faith or get out of attending Mass if that’s what you want and then would not be in full communion but how exactly do they get completely out? I’ve had a Catholic Apostolic successor from the hierarchy as well as Catholics here, though not all here, who have told me the Catholic Church teaches OCAC by virtue of a Catholic’s Baptism. Not all but even some fully practicing orthodox conservative Catholics who I’d say probably voted for Romney have said that.

Speaking to reporters at last month’s Synod, Cardinal Pell said it is better for a person to leave the church than to stay and pretend they can be a good Catholic while opposing church teaching:

“Nobody wants anybody to leave the church,” he said, but if people don’t believe in the divinity of Christ or if they “fundamentally reject the church’s teachings in areas of morality – fundamentally reject, not just that they are weak and can’t quite follow them – I think that as a matter of integrity, it’s not inappropriate that they do leave.” (catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1204423.htm)

 

[meltzerboy]

Speaking to reporters at last month’s Synod, Cardinal Pell said it is better for a person to leave the church than to stay and pretend they can be a good Catholic while opposing church teaching:

“Nobody wants anybody to leave the church,” he said, but if people don’t believe in the divinity of Christ or if they “fundamentally reject the church’s teachings in areas of morality – fundamentally reject, not just that they are weak and can’t quite follow them – I think that as a matter of integrity, it’s not inappropriate that they do leave.” (catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1204423.htm)

This sounds reasonable; however, notice Cardinal Pell states this with the utmost sensitivity and caution since, I presume, it is not ordinary Church teaching to discourage Catholics from being participating members of the Church.

 

[CMatt25]

Speaking to reporters at last month’s Synod, Cardinal Pell said it is better for a person to leave the church than to stay and pretend they can be a good Catholic while opposing church teaching:

“Nobody wants anybody to leave the church,” he said, but if people don’t believe in the divinity of Christ or if they “fundamentally reject the church’s teachings in areas of morality – fundamentally reject, not just that they are weak and can’t quite follow them – I think that as a matter of integrity, it’s not inappropriate that they do leave.” (catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1204423.htm)

Yes I know this is the mantra of many today compared to the past. Maybe that’s the problem. The hierarchy today is saying something that it did not previously. I confess when I asked an Apostolic successor “who is a Catholic” it was decades ago. But my question which remains unanswered is if Catholic Church teaching considers these Catholic Obama voters members of the Catholic Church by virtue of their Baptisms which placed this indelible permanent mark upon their souls, albeit perhaps some are now non practicing, dissenting, unfaithful, how exactly do they leave? And something I meant to ask Tigg. What of the ones who are not sure if the Catholic Church is right. But also not sure She is wrong? Are they to leave too?

 

[ishii]

There have always been extremists on both sides, what is different here IMO, is the mainstreaming and the seeming acceptance of vile behavior and speech. Give John McCain that, in 2008 he refused to stoop or to accept this, even at the cost of losing.

Your post is a joke, Seekerz. Considering that Majority Leader of the Senate Harry Joe McCarthy Reid, said, " I have evidence that Romney did not pay any taxes" (when he didn’t and Vice President Joe Biden pandering to a black audience, " they’re (the Republicans) going to put y’all back in chains." Obama saying the Republicans “don’t care” about clean air and kids with autism. The history of leftist/liberal demonization of conservatives is long and shameful. You might get some on the fringes saying similar things about Obama but last I checked, they weren’t high up in the GOP, were they? All you got from Romney/Ryan was " Obama is a nice guy, but his ideas were wrong."

Ishii

 

[ishii]

That so many Catholics voted for Obama shows that human beings are not robots, period. Blindness? How about the ‘new religion’ where the only and supreme sin is abortion? What kind of vision is that?

Once again, Seekerz, you resort to strawmen and caricatures. I never said the only sin is abortion. However, it is the salient sin. A society that aborts its unborn is an unjust society. As Mother Theresa said, I a mother can kill her unborn child then I can kill you and you can kill me. Your party supports keeping the practice legal. And your president doesn’t think that the babies that survive abortions should be allowed to live. Yet you support him. It boggles the mind, Seekerz. Being against abortion is a no-brainer, Seekerz. Join me in opposing it and we’ll move on to other topics like gay marriage, taxes and stuff. And we can even agree to disagree and be good Catholics. But vote for a president that supports infanticide and I’ll call you on it. Catholics shouldn’t do that. It is not necessary for you to support a president who votes for infanticide out of a misguided allegiance to the Democrat party, or out of a misguided hatred of the Republican party (if that is what’s motivating you).

Ishii